Bible Study Where Are Enoch and Elijah?

[Josef]

Hey All,
I have a question.

"There is no one in the third heaven except God, Jesus and the angels, John 3:13." Quote from for_his_glory in a different thread.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Note Jesus is the only man that ascended, but (or because) he that came down from heaven. So Jesus is the only one who came down from up. There are still two unaccounted for who went from down to up. Where are Enoch and Elijah?
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[hawkman]

Where are Enoch and Elijah?

In a better place than we are .

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi Josef Going to do this in two parts as I really need to post the whole teaching I wrote on this. It's long so please take your time.


Enoch, Moses, Abraham and Elijah were not taken up to the third Heaven as some teach as when they were seen (not Enoch or Abraham) of Peter, James and John in Matthew 17:1-9 it was only a transfiguration like a vision that they saw Jesus transfigured as was Moses and Elijah. There is no one in the third heaven except God, Jesus and the angels, John 3:13. Everyone that has ever died is asleep in their grave and when Christ returns they will hear His voice as He calls all of them to come forth. They that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation, Matthew 24:29-31; John 5:28, 29; 6:40 It is only our spirit/breath that goes back to God who gave it, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7.

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Does not say Enoch was taken up to heaven, but that he was only translated that he should not see death at that particular time being he was 365 years old. Should not see death means since Enoch walked with God he would not see the second death, Rev 20:6, but only that of the first death, Hebrews 9:27, as all his days were three hundred and sixty as he died, but no one knows where.

2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (Heaven here means atmosphere, first heaven)

Elijah, having ascended into the air (First heaven) by a whirlwind was carried away out of sight beyond the horizon. Several years after he was taken away King Jehoram received a letter from him. How long after? There are some difficulties in figuring the exact chronology as it varies from 2 to 10 years or more. A note in Josephus (a Jewish historian of the first century A.D.) says 4 years, while the JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA figures it at 7 years.

Regardless of the exact number of years there came writing to Jehoram from Elijah the prophet, saying..." (2Chron 21:12). Now the wickedness of Jehoram, for which he was being rebuked in the letter, took place after Elijah was taken away, yet the letter speaks of these things as past events, and the punishment to come upon him as yet future. So the idea of some, that Elijah wrote the letter before he was removed by the whirlwind, is proved wrong.

Elijah was taken up by the whirlwind into the first heaven and transported to another location on Earth. God did not see fit in His purpose to reveal his whereabouts. Chariot of fire is used at times figuratively for host (angels) like in 2 Kings 2:11, 12: 6:17; Psalms 68:17; 104:1-4. Elijah, by his prayers and his counsel was the "chariot of Israel and the horseman thereof", meaning Elijah was the stronghold of Israel, the driving force of God. The Israelite's never used chariots till the time of David.

 

[for_his_glory]

When you compare 2 Kings 2:11-15 with 2 Kings 6:17 you see that God sent the host/angels down to Elijah who caught him up in a whirlwind and translated him to parts unknown. Several years after he was taken away King Jehoram received a letter from him.

What some people do not know is that there are three heavens. The first heaven is the Atmosphere, the air surrounding the earth. Birds fly "in the heaven" - certainly not to God's throne. We read in Genesis l:2 of "foul that may fly above the Earth in the open firmament of heaven." Jacob, when blessing Isaac, said: "God give you of the dew of heaven," and Moses was joyful that the "heavens shall drop down dew" (Gen.27:28; Deut.33:28). The dew comes from the first heaven - the atmosphere. The second heaven is the expanse of this awesome universe - where the stars, moon and planets are. The Psalmists often wrote about the "Heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon, and the stars, which you have ordained" (Ps.8:3; Gen.1:15-17). The third heaven is where the throne of God exists, where the heavenly temple is found and the heavenly Jerusalem.

2 Chronicles Chapter 21 - Jehoram, being the son of Jehoshaphat, was 32 when he began his reign in Israel. He married Ahab's daughter and was a wicked king who reigned for eight years. According to scripture Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind, 2 Kings 2:11-13. The heaven Elijah went up to was only the first heaven being the atmosphere as there are three heavens described in scripture as the throne of God is in the third heaven. A whirlwind can only happen within the atmosphere of the first heaven. During the reign of Jehoram he received a letter from Elijah, 2 Chronicles 21:12-15. How could he receive a letter from Elijah if he was with God in the third heaven? Elijah being caught up to heaven is the same as Phillip being caught up in the first heaven and carried thirty miles away, Acts 8:39, 40. The only difference is that when the fifty men searched for Elijah they could not find him as he was translated further than their search. Phillip was found within the thirty mile radius where he was translated to.

Elijah lived during the time of King Ahab in 9th century B.C. Some people thought that Jesus was Elijah come back, but Jesus made it clear that John the Baptist is the Elijah that was promised to come before the great and terrible day of the Lord, Malachi 4:5, Luke 1:16, 17.

Enoch died as per what Paul said In Hebrews 11:13 after speaking about all these men of faith that they all died in faith and never received the promise of heaven as one of the promises was a heavenly country, vs. 16. In Genesis 5:21-24 Enoch lived to be 365 years old and God took him. This is the same phrase in Psalms 37:36; 39:13; Matthew 2:18 to name a few that means they have passed away or would eventually die.

Psalms 89:48 David asked a question as he knew Enoch was dead in his grave. The words should not see death means that of the second death, John 8:51; 11:26; Rev 20:14, 15.

Based on Hebrews 9:27; 11:13; Romans 5:12-14 and all the scriptures I have given, especially John 3:13, no one has ever gone up to the third heaven, but only Christ. It's only man assuming without proof that say Elijah and Enoch were taken up to the third heaven where God sits on His throne. Scripture only says "they were not found".

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hey All,
I have a question.

"There is no one in the third heaven except God, Jesus and the angels, John 3:13." Quote from for_his_glory in a different thread.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Note Jesus is the only man that ascended, but (or because) he that came down from heaven. So Jesus is the only one who came down from up. There are still two unaccounted for who went from down to up. Where are Enoch and Elijah?
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

LoL. They're in Heaven, just as the church has always taught from the beginning. There is no genuine support for the idea that Enoch and Elijah just flew away somewhere and magically appeared elsewhere a few years later, and nothing in early church tradition that teaches it. Quite the opposite, actually.

God bless.
- H