Where are you Lord?

[NRoof]

Where are you Lord?

I’ve been looking for you for some time now. I know I haven’t been as diligent as I should be and I only seem to look for you when I feel I have the time. In the beginning I talked to you quite frequently. I even thought you were talking to me and helping me understand. I looked forward to reading your word and learning more about you. I will admit I haven’t read the entire Bible at this time but there are some things I simply don’t understand. I would ask you to explain it to me and sometimes you did. Other times I didn’t hear from you so I asked other people. They would give me their understanding and that would be OK for now.

As time went by I had more and more questions and I seemed to here from you less and less. I’m not sure why this happened but I’m sure it was my fault. Because I was hearing from you less I sought out other believers to help me understand. It didn’t take long before this became a real problem for me. The people I talked to said they believed in you and your word but they didn’t agree with each other. The more people I talked to the more varying opinions I received. How can this be? Are you a God divided? I understand everyone’s relationship with you is personal and therefore will be different from mine but how can so many people have so many different understandings.

Why is it that some people say to go to Church on Saturday and some on Sundays? I know this is a small issue and probably doesn’t matter as we should worship you every second of every day but I have seen people arguing about this. If people are arguing over this should I say that neither is right because they are not patient and long suffering in there discussion and therefore not one of yours.

It is all so confusing to me. I want to know you and want you to know me. I want you to be my best friend but I’m not sure what to do. Some people say “say this prayer†and you will be saved. Others say you have to invite Jesus into your heart. I have done both of these many many times and I still don’t feel any closer to you. I’m pretty sure I meant them but perhaps I wasn’t sincere. Some people believe you selected those to be saved before they were born. If this is true was I selected or not and how would I know.

Some people say I’m going to hell if I don’t believe the way they do. Is that true? Am I going to hell because there is no way I can believe everyone is right? If I don’t believe in the trinity they way they do I’m going to hell? I don’t understand how the God head works so does that mean I’m going to hell? It’s so very confusing having so many very different opinions of you and your nature. Why has this happened and why have you allowed it? I want to know what you have to say about these things but I haven’t heard from you in a long time.

I have seen many occasions where people are discussing what you meant in a certain passage in the Bible. When I listen to them I don’t hear love coming from them but contempt and disdain for the other persons view and understanding. Not everyone does this but more people than I care to think about spew venom from their mouth and not the loving patients I would expect from you. This is mostly from online people as they don’t seem to do this in person. Most will say this is righteous anger and it is OK. I am by no means righteous so how could I have righteous anger. I would think that only you could be angry like that. Perhaps I am not understanding something again.

So many question and so many opinions. What should I believe?
I want to believe the truth and feel I can only get that from you.
I haven’t heard from you in so long.
Where are you Lord?

 

[stovebolts]

That was a good post Norm.

I’ve found myself asking the same questions through out the years, and as I’m ashamed to admit, I’ve also been the one who has spit at those whom I’ve had disagreements with.

It’s not something that I’m particularly proud of, but what I’ve come to understand is this. If we keep honestly seeking God and asking those tough questions, God will indeed continue to transform us to reflect his image. Sometimes this isn’t easy.

I recall a smart remark that I made in flippant humor to an Atheist when I first joined the boards several years ago and didn’t really think much about it as is appeared that this Atheist was just out to harass us ‘christians’. Well, last year I’m not sure what happened or why, but I did a google search on this person and found an atheist site that this person also visited from years past. What I found shocked me, and has since changed my perspective considerably. In one of his posts on the other site, he had quoted my flippant remark and then explained how not only I was a jerk, but how I wouldn’t even take his issue to heart. After following this guy around the internet, I quickly found that he was really struggling with Christianity.. with those really tough questions that we’re all afraid to ask at times and when I became part of the problem and not part of the solution, I really had to rethink how I viewed Christianity and my relationship to Christ.

I suppose Norm, that one of the biggest lessons I’ve had to put into practice would be this. Anybody can be a critic, that’s the easy part. What’s tough is to find the good in everyone. That is to say, the image of Christ in every human being. To do this, I believe, is to truly be the salt and the light to the world and when we start seeing Christ in others, something wonderful happens where Christ become more clear in our lives and those tough questions, though some are still tough, simply don’t seem to hold the weight that they once held. Christ once said, “Father forgive them, for they know not what they doâ€Â. He was compassionate to those who were persecuting him… image that.

I have really struggled with this concept of forgiving those that I see doing wrong, but what I found out, is that when we forgive those who trespass against us, then we are free from their bondage and the words Jesus spoke, “My yoke is light†rings true. And like forgiving those who have wronged us, when we seek forgiveness from those that we have wronged, it releases us from the bonds of guilt and the words Jesus said, “and the truth will set you free†glimmers in the distance.

I really hope Norm, that God will move in your life to move you to be that light for others. What I can say for sure, is that I have always respected your posts and have always thought very highly of you through the years. You’re a good person and God has gifted you with a sincere heart.

Jeff

 

[kenan]

It was really saddening to read that post of yours NRoof. I know I'm new here, and to be honest I'm new to the faith and haven't been baptized yet. But I can assure you of these things:

• God loves you[/*:m:012b8]
• God wants to know how you feel[/*:m:012b8]
• God doesn't want you to hurt, physically or emotionally[/*:m:012b8]
• God wants you to know that His door is always open, all day, 365 days a year[/*:m:012b8]
• God wants you to know that He will never forget you[/*:m:012b8]
• God wants you to know that He will never leave you[/*:m:012b8]
• God wants you to know that He will never forsake you[/*:m:012b8]
• God never lies; the points above are a given, now and forever.[/*:m:012b8]
• Finally, have faith in God and He will always be with you, by your side, and you can always count on Him to be with you for better and for worse[/*:m:012b8]

 

[Vic C.]

Maybe, just maybe (I can't be sure) Norm wasn't just posting that for his sake, but for the sake of anyone out there who feels that way and is either too ashamed or embarrassed to say, or who just doesn't know how to express their doubts and fears.

Kenan... everything you posted is true, but all believers and even Jesus Himself, will have or has gone through this sort of questioning. It's our nature and we need God's help to overcome our old nature.

 

[stovebolts]

I think your right Vic.

Speaking for myself, I know that I have felt, and still do at times like Norm.

I recently stumbled across an article that spoke about Jacob when he wrestled with the Angel of the Lord [Genesis 32](though Jacob was convinced that he had wrestled with God) and it concluded that sometimes we need to wrestle with God if we are going to take on some of those bigger issues. Furthermore, we might even walk away with a limp from the encounter, but in the end, we can (with God's guidance) overcome the issues.

It's not easy asking the tough questions and sometimes we seek and seek and just can't find the answers, but I believe that some of the answers do come when God feels were ready to handle them. In the meantime, we just need to endure through faith that God's watching over us.

 

[NRoof]

All,
Sorry for taking so long to get back to this. My life is crazy right now and time is precious.

Jeff,
Thanks for the reply and testimony. It is always good to examine what we say to others and do our best to make sure our words can't be used to confuse or harm another. The is especially true when it comes to forums such as this. We always have to remember that we are not simply replying to one individual but many at the same time. Some might not even be part of the discussion but simply reading it.
It is great talking with you again. It was one of the things I missed during my time away.

Kenan,
Please don't be sad there really is no need for it. Always be happy in the Lord.
I do appreciate the words of encouragement you put forth and I do know and agree with everything you said. I also understand that there is a reason for what I am going through at this time in my life and that it is all for God's glory. It just gets hard at times.

Vic,
I have always enjoyed your responses here. You are a very intuitive person.
Yes the main reason for this was to let others know that it is OK to be where I am now and they need not hide this from others. I firmly believe a lot of people have these doubts and some get bold on forums not to convince others they are right but to convince themselves. This is just a theory of course

 

[NRoof]

It's not easy asking the tough questions and sometimes we seek and seek and just can't find the answers, but I believe that some of the answers do come when God feels were ready to handle them. In the meantime, we just need to endure through faith that God's watching over us.

I agree fully but that is where I have the most difficulty.
I personally want answers when I want them. Truth be told most people are probably like that. When I don't get them from God in the timeframe I want I well seek out others opinions. Once you start down this path a real problem starts to develop. It becomes easier to seek other people’s opinion than to seek God's answer.

Patience has never been my long suit.

Please don't anyone misunerstand me here. It is OK and good to discuss and fellowship with others. It is good to discuss our beliefs and understandings with one another even if we don't agree. When we do have these discussion we must remember to have them showing God's love even if we don't agree.

Bottom line for me and what is taking me a long time to do --> wait on God's timing.

 

[stovebolts]

Hey Norm,
Yeah, I understand completly. I'm a tad impatient myself at times and have to be reminded at times.

Thanks for sharing with us.

In Christ

 

[bartdanr]

This is a very good thread; I appreciate both the OP and the comments posted so far.

I, too, have struggled for many years, and probably will struggle until the day I die. I went forward in a Billy Graham crusade 33 years ago, but since that time the road has been rocky. Some days--some years, really--I've been joyous in God, happy to have a relationship with him and felt him so very close. Other days (and years) I've even denied his existence.

Right now--for the moment at least--I feel close to God. But I cannot and will not judge those who don't feel that way. I've been there myself, not just once but many times.

One of the things during all my times of disbelief and doubt that is true though: God has always mattered to me. It wasn't as if I said "I really don't care about this debate, for some religion is ok and for others it's not." I always cared passionately. At times I posted some (what I considered) very strong atheistic things on the Internet...at other times, I posted some (what I considered) very strong Christian things on the Internet. In chat rooms, I would argue for hours for my position. Perhaps I was even more passionate during my atheistic times.

I guess some of us are just wired that way. The question of God isn't just an interesting side note, or a fun spectulation: it becomes all-consuming. Others don't really feel strongly one way or another...they just don't care. Try as I might, I could never not care about God. Even when (and sometimes especially when) I don't think he's there at all.

Answers don't seem to come easy to people like us. I think the song "No Room For Us" by the Lost Dogs. (See http://www.thelostdogs.com/lyrics/littleredridinghood/noroomforus.html (Actually, music has been one of the key things that has been useful in helping me during these times.)

God bless!

 

[NRoof]

bartdanr,
Thanks for the testimony.
I really just needed to share where I am at this point in my life for 2 reasons:

1) To find out if I’m alone in this.
2) To let others in my position know it is OK and good to share it.

All too often it seem as I am the only one going through things like this. I look around at Church and everyone seems to have it all together. Then I start to wonder what is wrong with me and why can’t I be like so and so.
The reality is usually very different to what we perceive. The problem I’m finding is most people are afraid to let others know the struggles and doubts they have because of how they think others will perceive them.
I also want others to share their testimonies so as to encourage others and possibly help them through their tough times.

 

[handy]

All too often it seem as I am the only one going through things like this. I look around at Church and everyone seems to have it all together. Then I start to wonder what is wrong with me and why can’t I be like so and so.
The reality is usually very different to what we perceive. The problem I’m finding is most people are afraid to let others know the struggles and doubts they have because of how they think others will perceive them.

NRoof, I've been really convicted lately regarding the sin of the Pharisees. Jesus condemned the Pharisees for putting burdens on others that they themselves were unwilling to carry. But, what seems strange is that the Pharisees seemed to just be zealously seeking after following God's Law. Isn't it a good thing to follow God's Law and encourage others?

Not long ago, I gave some advice to a friend who was struggling to do the right thing. It was fear that was causing her to hesitate to take steps that the Bible tells us we should take. I encouraged her to lay aside her fears and to as the Scriptures commanded.

This was when conviction really entered in, because I've been in similiar situations, and also, because of fear, didn't do as the Scriptures command. But, because I hadn't struggled with that particular sin for a while, it was easy for me to say, "to obey God you must" without empathizing with her over how hard it is to do the right thing at times. Gosh, I looked in the mirror, and there was a Pharisee staring me down.

You're absolutely correct, it's easy to look at folks in church, or even in these on-line fellowships, and think, "Wow, those folks got it all together" and present ourselves as having it all together as well. Sometimes I get fearful when I think of how people would view me, if they could see the "real" me, the me that doesn't get the housework done in a timely manner (or in the case of the computer room here, done at all) the me that yells at the kids far too often, the me that gets impatient with life in general to the point that I throw kitten fits over the fact that the dogs got loose again. The me, that if all of you could only be right here beside me right now, would give everyone cause to wonder, "How can she think she has anything to say of value, when she's so messed up?"

I don't know what the real balance is. We do need to encourage and exhort one another to love and good works. If a friend said she did something that the bible gives clear steps on how to rectify, then I do need to encourage the friend to take the godly, if hard, steps.

Maybe it comes down to this: Maybe it's MY job to encourage and exhort others while I'm being open and honest about what I'm struggling with, and it's OTHERS job to hold ME accountable. Too often, I get this mixed up, and start believing that it's my job to hold others accountable and their job to encourage me.

And when we do this, and it's very common, then we do become as the Pharisees, acting like we're the one's with it all together, which makes it discouraging for someone who has honest questions and honest issues to be open about them. If as a group, we can start getting things right, we'll be less like the Pharisees and more like the Body of Christ. And, if we can become more like the Body of Christ, when we do go through the kind of crises of faith that you speak of (and I firmly believe that all do at some time or another) then the Body will be there to support us and nurture us, instead of just making us feel worse.