Where does femininity come from?

[Orion]

Re: Is belief in Jesus's divinity necessary?

Can someone tell me which member of the Godhead brings to humanity the feminine qualities?

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Re: Is belief in Jesus's divinity necessary?

Can someone tell me which member of the Godhead brings to humanity the feminine qualities?

Thats dangerous ground. Its easy to slip into heresy when treading that ground.

Let me just say that God is FAMILY. The Father begets the Son, and the perfect love of the Father and Son is the Holy Spirit. Mans family is an imperfect representation of God, insofar as a man and woman become one, and the love between the two becomes a whole other person - a baby. (Of course, in this analogy, Jesus would be the feminine, and obviously that does not work. That is why it is dangerous ground as I said)

May I suggest a fantastic book on the subject:, Scott Hahn's "First Comes Love - Finding Your Family in the Church and the Trinity". I own it, and highly recommend it:
http://www.amazon.com/First-Comes-Love- ... 0385496613
(go to the link and you can read selected pages)

 

[Rick W]

Re: Is belief in Jesus's divinity necessary?

You mean something like Aphrodite in Greek mythology for love and beauty?

 

[Orion]

Re: Is belief in Jesus's divinity necessary?

Potluck, assuming you directed your question to me, . . . . . .what I'm talking about is the femininity of women and what aspect of the Godhead did that come from, . . . . since we're "made in HIS image"?

 

[Rick W]

Re: Is belief in Jesus's divinity necessary?

What do you think "made in His image" means?

 

[Orion]

Re: Is belief in Jesus's divinity necessary?

I take it to mean our characteristics. . . . non-physical, of course. We all know how different men are from women. The feminine characteristics had to come from some aspect of the Godhead, right? I'm just wondering from where? Who has those characteristics to "pass on to humanity"?

 

[handy]

Re: Is belief in Jesus's divinity necessary?

Interesting question Orion. (Although, IMHO maybe fodder for a different thread.)

I don't think you guys need to be all that fearful of femininity by the way. It's not all that 'dangerous' to wonder where the feminine comes from since the Bible always applies the masculine to God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, even though when He made us in His image, He made us male and female.

Orion, I hope you don't mind, but I think I'm going to split this into it's own topic. It's so different from the divinity of Jesus, and that subject may or may not have more to it.

 

[handy]

I hope I do this right.

 

[cyberjosh]

I hope I do this right.

Well, whatever was supposed to happen....... did it happen?

If so I missed it. :D

 

[handy]

Hang on! Hang on! If I do this right I want all the brownie points that Vic has been stealing from Alabaster!

 

[Rick W]

:

 

[handy]

Whoo-hoo! I'm getting purdy good at this here moderating thang! 8-)

Orion, I hope you don't mind that I split the two topics, but I thought this was such a good, and not very often talked about subject. There is a lot of discussion out in the public now that this subject has taken on a lot of new-agey, heretical nonsense. We Christians should be able to answer this question with God's truth, but we won't be able to do so if we shy away from the subject.

The key isn't to throw out what the Bible teaches about God's masculinity, but rather to be comfortable with, and embrace God's femininity as well. To do this right, we need to search the Scriptures and see what God has said of His own femininity.

For instance, Isaiah 46:3-4: "Listen to Me, O house of Jacob, and all the remnant of the house of Israel, You who have been borne by Me from birth, and have been carried from the womb; Even to your old age, I shall be the same, and even to your graying years I shall bear you! I have done it, and I shall carry you; and I shall bear you, and I shall deliver you.

This is imagery, yes, but it is clearly a feminine side of God we are seeing here.

 

[Alabaster]

Hang on! Hang on! If I do this right I want all the brownie points that Vic has been stealing from Alabaster!

 

[mondar]

Re: Is belief in Jesus's divinity necessary?

Can someone tell me which member of the Godhead brings to humanity the feminine qualities?

I dont know, but he sure did a good job!

 

[Relic]

I wonder, do you ask this as a type of clever trick question perhaps a chicken before the egg type of a question, to see if there is justification as to whether the feminine side gets to share in the glory only reserved for CREATOR?


I can't help but think about that old song...
Let me tell you bout the birds and the bees and the flowers and the trees and the moon up above.... and a thing called LOVE! :

GOD is clear on where femininity came from AND the role/position/purpose it has in life. HIS LOVE, The FATHER GOD is the only LOVE we need give heed to!

God the FATHER was IS and always will be, HE created male first, that is, after the image of GOD. GOD IS FATHER. WAS IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE, the I AM THAT I AM, THE FIRST AND THE LAST.

The feminine came from out of CREATOR GOD. HE CREATED. not some goddess, not some mother earth. not some chickens egg. IT IS FATHER GOD WHO IS THE CREATOR. the female is the recipient, the created. from out of the male, that which was created by FATHER GOD SPIRIT.

The Masculine asserts, feminine from out of the male receives that which male gives. Female from out of the side of the male. FATHER GOD the CREATOR OF LIFE made both male and female. So your question where does femininity come from , to me, it sounds like you want to trick us into thinking that God is both male and female so then the goddess is worthy of being given honor.
Well, GOD is the CREATOR of LIFE! and the CREATOR IS THE ONLY ONE WE ARE TO HOLD UP HIGH IN the SEAT OF HONOR.
HE, MASCULINE CREATED FEMALE FROM OUT OF THE SIDE OF THE FLESH OF THE MALE. In all of plant life there is the male and female in order to reproduce. The feminine is submissive to the male seed. The feminine is created for the sole purpose of receiving the seed of life. The SEED OF LIFE which came from out of FATHER GOD. It is FATHER GOD WHO CREATED THE feminine.

I don't understand why you would even ask such a question. If you are looking to place the "GODDESS" in the seat of the ALMIGHTY FATHER GOD so as to give praise or glory to the feminine, you can't do it. FATHER GOD IS The ONLY ONE TO BE HONORED AND PRAISED AS CREATOR OF ALL LIFE. The female cannot take that place or position. The Male/masculine asserts/gives, the Female/feminine receives/nurtures. The Father is the catalyst of LIFE. The Father CREATED The feminine from out of the male. The feminine is the receiver, NOT TO BE WORSHIPPED as some ‘goddess’ or ‘creator god type mother, or mother nature, or earth mother, etc. The Mother does not create, the mother is a carrier of that which created LIFE. THERE is only one creator. FATHER GOD. WE as Christians Worship the CREATOR ONLY. That does not mean we don't give respect to God’s creations, NO what we do is THANK HIM FOR IT. WE PRAISE HIM. We don’t light candles or give a dance to the mother/the vessel of His creation. GOD IS THE ONLY ONE TO BE PRAISED AND HONORED. The triune God; The Father, Son and Holy SPIRIT. Don't confuse the position of respect for what God created by switching it with the seat Only meant for The Creator GOD. We are to not praise the creation, we are to praise the CREATOR.

A goddess or mother is not the CREATOR. FATHER GOD CREATED...Not the Mother/feminine. The Mother/feminine is a carrier of what GOD THE FATHER CREATED. We GIVE ALL PRAISE TO THE FATHER CREATOR. The Masculine is the seed, the Root of the LIFE.
There is only one GOD, GOD THE FATHER. Jesus said, I and the Father are ONE. Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father. The feminine is only the carrier of the creation of GOD the FATHER. NO feminine (goddess) will ever be able to take the seat of the FATHER CREATOR. "SHE" is only a Help mate. God created man to be an initiator. The feminine is the receptor. We are to not praise that which is the creation of God, we are to give Honor and Glory and Praise to only the CREATOR, Father God. Through THE HOLY SPIRIT of Christ Jesus His Son living in and through us. NOT any creation. We are to Honor the CREATOR. A female/feminine, a “goddess†, a mother is NOT a CREATOR.

The Feminine is not to be lifted up! Nor is the human male to be lifted up in the stead of FATHER GOD CREATOR. That is vanity. Vanity dishonors FATHER GOD.


P.S. Please excuse the redundancy in the above post. I'm sorry I have a problem with that. So please do fogive me for that human flaw of mine. : I do hope I didn't complicate the message.

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Here’s an interesting article:
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2167


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[handy]

Sheesh, calm down already. Not once has anyone even remotely suggested a 'goddess' in any of the posts. I don't think that we need to automatically suspect someone who asks a question of ulterior motives. Given the dialog today that everybody but the Church seems to be having, and given the fact that we have a God-given responsiblity to always have an answer for the faith that we have, then we should be far more willing to discuss this issue from the Biblical point of view, without accusing. There is one in the world who is more than ready to accuse. Let's try to work together a bit more cooperatively.

As God made us in His image, and made us both male and female, it seems clear to me that God would have femininity as well as masculinity. I don't see anything heretical about that. Some would say that the feminine attributes of God must come from the Father as the role of Father is just as nurturing as the human role of mother. Some would say that since the Holy Spirit brings us spiritual life and is our comforter, then perhaps the feminine attributes spring from the Spirit.

I don't see it that way though. I see masculinity and femininity as coming from God; Father, Son and Spirit, although God is always masculine. We know that God is Spirit, so the physical aspects of humans are a moot point, but I think that God endowed men with His masculinity attributes and women with his feminine attributes. Men have a certain amount of femininity. Men are nurturing, protective, comforting, all those traits that we think of as 'feminine'. Women also have a certain amount of masculinity. Women are forceful, even combative (note previous post) when she needs to be. As we are all to a certain extent both masculine and feminine, and we are all created in His image, then it makes sense that God Himself, though masculine is the Author of the feminine attributes. What clouds the issue for us is that we cannot think of God but in anything other than human terms. Since a human male cannot be fully masculine and fully feminine at the same time without being a freak, it seems heretical to think of our masculine God as having feminine attributes as well.

The world and that aforementioned accuser is busy promoting the idea of either a 'goddess' or at the very least a gender-neutral god. Both of these are heresies. But, we can't answer heresies by screaming at the top of our lungs, "YOU CAN'T ASK THAT QUESTION!" Since this is a question that the Church has been at liberty to ignore for a long time now, I believe that the answers that would have readily jumped to the lips of our brothers and sisters in places like Athens and Ephesus in the 1st century have largely been forgotten. Well, the world is having the dialog, and we need to brush up on having a sane, well-reasoned, Biblical answer.

 

[Relic]

Sheesh, calm down already. Not once has anyone even remotely suggested a 'goddess' in any of the posts.

calm down? I wasn't in an uproar. I thought to point out that the Father Spirit is the Creator Spirit in that it is in the form of the masculine. The femininine is a "creation" being that the Father(masculine) Spirit is the ONE supreme above any other form of spirit. Feminine is an offspring, that is,created of and by God. Therefore, it is not to be place in any rank higher than that of the Father (masucline). The Creator, being that "Masculine/asserting initiator of LIFE Spirit ranks above the "feminine"/ receptive/nurturing in that the masculine created the feminine to recieve the seed of life... That is, the Masculine characteristic of God being that essense of life and the feminine is the characteristic which is the reciever, the nurturing of the seed. FATHER GOD being the supreme over all other Spirit characteristics of the Spirit. There is a Rule of Order, being that the Masculine is the Creator, First and Last.. Genensis 1 shows that the Masculine is the First. the feminine follows. Even in nature, the masculine is over the feminine. In plant life. it is the feminine that recieves the life seed. the Masculine which gives life. I'm sorry if I didn't explain it well enough. I did provide a link to an article that explains in more detail and much better than better than I did. But I guess you didn't read it. So never mind. I seem to come off too harsh for you. Sorry. Didn't mean to do that. I'll just stay out of this conversation then. Once a city person always a city person. Sorry if I came off too harsh and offended you Handy. :-?

Don't know if you were aware of what prompted Orion to come up with the question here, but I was under the impression that this post was created out of a dialog that took place in the witch thread. In that thread Orion was heading toward the idea that the feminine side of the Godhead can be liken to a goddess, and then all of a sudden this thread pops up asking where femininity comes from. Sorry if I misunderstood the flow of thought. I wasn't in an uproar. So no need for anyone to calm down because there is no uproar.

 

[handy]

Ahhh, then I'm sorry that I misunderstood you, Relic. I was unaware that this thread was born of a different conversation elsewhere. Not knowing that, it did seem as though you were in an uproar. Now your response does seem to make a bit more sense!

(Big hug! :smt056 )

However, this is still a good conversation to have, as the heretical ideas of a 'goddess' or a 'gender-neutral' god are very popular right now.

No, I didn't read the link, I'm trying to carry on several different discussions right now, so am not taking the time to pursue links, but I will have to read it. I'm not so sure that I agree totally with the idea that God is masculine alone and femininity is simply a creation. But, I'll read the article and examine the idea more closely.

 

[Orion]

Relic, . . . . I don't take the story of "woman out of the side of the man" as literal. It is metaphorical and NOT> . . . . . . . . NOOOOTTT saying that the woman (or the feminine) is "under the man ( masculine), . . . but that they stand together, side by side, as equals. It's only a patriarchical mindset that would see it as "the subserviant woman". . . . and these issues really anger me because it is the heart of what we find in Islam and even the new story about that polygamist's compound.

I am not even sure if you answered my question. Forget the post about "the goddess". The feminine HAS to have come from somewhere. Men and women are different in many aspects and it is easy to see where MEN get their general characteristics from, . . . but you MUST have the general feminine characteristics coming from SOME aspect of the Godhead.

By the way, I am not a "monotheist". I have to problems with the Godhead being a few dieties with the one we call "God" (capital G) as the "head of the business".

 

[Relic]

The feminine HAS to have come from somewhere. Men and women are different in many aspects and it is easy to see where MEN get their general characteristics from, . . . but you MUST have the general feminine characteristics coming from SOME aspect of the Godhead.

By the way, I am not a "monotheist". I have to problems with the Godhead being a few dieties with the one we call "God" (capital G) as the "head of the business".
Relic, . . . . I don't take the story of "woman out of the side of the man" as literal. It is metaphorical and NOT> . . . . . . . . NOOOOTTT saying that the woman (or the feminine) is "under the man ( masculine), . . . but that they stand together, side by side, as equals. It's only a patriarchical mindset that would see it as "the subserviant woman". . . . and these issues really anger me because it is the heart of what we find in Islam and even the new story about that polygamist's compound.

I am not even sure if you answered my question. Forget the post about "the goddess". The feminine HAS to have come from somewhere. Men and women are different in many aspects and it is easy to see where MEN get their general characteristics from, . . . but you MUST have the general feminine characteristics coming from SOME aspect of the Godhead.

By the way, I am not a "monotheist". I have to problems with the Godhead being a few dieties with the one we call "God" (capital G) as the "head of the business".

It's not a matter of "God" (captial G) as the "head of the business". It's a matter of divine order, The fixed laws of God in all things. Look at it this way, you can't change the law of order in the make up of H2 O . If you change it it is not longer pure water. and you can't change the law of order in the make up of the fact that it takes the male sperm to fertilize the female egg. There is a certain Law of Order to that process. As it is in heaven so it is in nature. God created a law of order. That there is a rank of order for a thing to come to pass. If I want to have a tree grow in my yard, I must first have the seed take root in order for it to grow. And law of order can be looked at in terms of the masculine (assertive/ initiator) and the feminine ( a passive/receptive) . So "God" (capital G) IS the "head of business". Whether you like it or not... that's how it is. God IS THE CREATOR, and it is the CREATOR who has the say so as to how things are to be maintained. Let's say YOU want to bake a cake. Well IF I came over your house and told you that you can't make a cake unless I put my shoe into the batter, because IF I don't put my shoe into the batter, it just won't taste they way "I" think a cake should taste.... Would you think I was nuts, that if anyone who thinks a shoe should be in cake batter is really twisted and everyone knows that you don't put a shoe into cake batter, would you think that your way of making a cake is better than my way of making a cake? Well, think about it. God created this world, HE created all that is was and will be, and to think that HE has no right to be the HEAD of HOW this world is to be maintained or HOW we are to conduct our lives FOR HIS GLORY to shine through is a mistake to think so? How are we supposed to follow after HIM IF we don't follow his divine order of things? Yes, Orion, "GOD" IS the "head of business". We can't change his principles or precepts, not one jot nor tiddle will be altered. His divine law of order isn't changing for those who refuse to accept HIS TRUTHS. The Holy Bible IS the Truth. If you don't believe and accept the truth then you will not benefit FROM the Truth. We can't expect God to do for us if we don't follow after His divine order. Jesus is the way the truth and the life. Do you believe that? The feminine IS sobordinant to the masculine, like it or not. That's how life is. If you think about it, you can see it in all of life. Some examples are in many of the historic stories we read about in the bible... for instance, The Sacred ritual of the Jewish wedding is significant of the Order of the masculine and the feminine. The Washing of Jesus' feet is significant of the order of the masculine and the feminine.
So, what's your point? You ask where does femininity come from, well, I told you it comes from out of a creation of God and I described the spirit characteristics of femininity as being receptive, passive and nurturing, but you seem to think that the woman is equal and that certain passivness is demeaning to women, that to instill those characteristics in the woman is a demoralizing of the feminine side of woman, BUT, you misunderstand the nature and the order of the masculine and feminine if you think so. I never said the female wasn't equal with the man in so far as being mates. They are equal in partnership, BUT it is always the male who is the stronger vessel. the woman is the weaker. God made it that way for a reason. There is a divine order to his authority and submission. IT is complimentary to each other. They each need and want each other. The feminine is to be subordinate to the masculine. It is like that in all of nature. The female receives the masculine. Femininity is created by GOD to receive that which was created by God. God created man in the masculine in His image and He there after shaped the female out of the male. The female is sub-ordinate to the masculine. Hence femininity. God created femininity as a compliment to the masculine, NOT as a superior, but as a compliment. He created the feminine in all of life to receive the masculine. It is not a force that overpowers, but it is a force that receives. The feminine is that which gives host to the masculine. God created the feminine. We as Judeo Christians give total honor and praise to the 'CREATOR' not the created.

Godhead? What are you talking about, Godhead? That is a new ager type term, is it not? Are you saying that you think God is both male and female, and that, therefore, giving honor to the female side of God is perfectly fine? Well, if that is the case, I already explained that in "JUDEO" Christianity, there is no distinguishing superiority of the feminine over the masculine in terms of which is the Creator over which is the created. WE give honor and glory to the Creator, not the created. The initial force of God is the masculine force of Elohim, not the feminine which is the created from out of the masculine. The masculine force is that which is at the root of creation. You can have all the feminine in the world, but as long as there is no masculine to inject the seed of life into the feminine, to receive, (in plant life also) there will be no multiplication in the sense that God intended. So feminine is the created by God. God is a God of multiplication and that type of co-motion is initiated by the masculine in all of nature. God (masculine) is the creator. God's creation (the feminine, the receptive, that is, also is in plant life) is originated by the masculine.

So to answer your question Where does femininity come from.... It comes from the masculine. (out of the side) The feminine is not the creator, the feminine is created. That doesn't mean that "women" are supposed to allow "men" to dominate them in an abusive manner. THAT is NOT OF GOD, but is of the ungodly character to abuse anyone! I didn't mean to imply that notion in my previous postings at all.
When I referred to the masculine, I mean that a characteristic of spirit is that which is in authority, and the feminine characteristic of spirit is the sub-ordinate. Example, I'm a mother, but in disciplining my child I use authority ( the masculine) to enforce Godly principles (creation) . I also use feminine sub-ordination in instilling that authority in my life in terms of accepting the HOLY SPIRIT OF CHRIST JESUS to enter into my life. As does any Christian, be them male or female... for me to die (in carnal spirit) is to live, to gain HIS HOLY SPIRIT. I must be sub-ordinate to receive Christ. Christ in me is a masculine authority, in that, HIS SPIRIT IS THE CREATING transforming SPIRIT in me and through me. There are both the feminine and the masculine at play here. But it is the masculine, the assertive, the creator that is given Honor and Glory. It is only by seeing the backside of the Creator that we are able to see the created. therefore, we give all Glory and Honor to the CREATOR, the ORIGINATOR, the PURE FORM OF HIS HOLY CREATION. That is a Masculine Force which is only in Elohim.

Judeo Christianity honors the Creator (the masculine). Praise God, HE was, is, and always will be. The Alpha and the Omega.

So what's you point Orion? :smt102

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