Where does Jesus' death and resurrection fit ?

[Vic C.]

What was the purpose of the death and resurrection of our Master in this quote? In other words, how does His sacrifice tie in with purification of the soul?

... Did you know that the book of revelations, chp. 19 says NOTHING UNCLEAN shall enter. So that means you will not enter heaven with sin or even the thought of sinning. No lust. No malicious anger, no lifting a pen from the groacery store even by accident out of neglect for concern for the property of another. Not the slightest mistake! Absolute perfection. No sorrow, no pain. Hard to imagine isn't it.

Now having it put that way I know that something has to happen at or after the moment of death to make us this pure and holy. Is it just separation from the body? If that were the case then why do other souls that have done evil in this life go to hell? Why do they continue to hate God if the flesh is the sole source and cause of the evil. The spirit of angels is capable of hatred and evil. So it must not be just the separation of the flesh from the spirit. The grace of God must purify any impurities that are left in our soul. This is pure and simply all that my theology says. It may happen instantaneously and that is the way I lean or it may take time. I think that the intensity varies based on the sinfulness of the life combined with the amount of sanctification that one has been through in life. If the sanctification is not completed by the time of death (and I see no guarantee that it will be for all) then it must be completed before entry in to heavenly eternity. That is all my posts say.

Blessings

 

[thessalonian]

Jesus Christ died for all men. He desires that "all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth". Yet some do not. Why? Because the grace of God is not applied internally to their soul through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, sanctifying it. Jesus made possible for us the grace to be redeemed by his death on the cross but some are not saved because they do not let that grace in. They do not let the external grace, telling them that there is a God who loves them let the grace that Christ earned for them on the cross come in and work the cleansing of their soul. Christ earned that grace for all men by his death on the cross 2000 years ago. But it has to be brought forward and applied to the soul today. One is not saved before a life of grace, i.e. while still in their sins. They would go to hell.

Grace is not just God being nice and saying we're forgiven, though it does include that. It is God actively removing sin in our lives and giving us a clean heart. This was not possible before the resurrection because we were not open to God's grace to the point that the spirit of God could dwell within us. Jesus death and resurrection is grace working externally, telling us how much God loves us. That he gave his only begotten son for our salvation. That that son submitted to death on the cross in an act of total giving. When we come to this realization, it allows for our wills to submit to God dwelling within us and cleansing our souls of sin. Making them right with God. It is not just imputed righteousness but infused righteousness. His death is applied to our account, that is true. But his payment brings us grace to heal.

I hope that answers the question.

Blessings

 

[Vic C.]

In RC theology, what is the purpose of fire and brimstone in Rev. 21 and does RC theology see any coming out the second death purified?

 

[Guest]

In RC theology, what is the purpose of fire and brimstone in Rev. 21 and does RC theology see any coming out the second death purified?

Fire and brimstone symbolizes God's wrath.

does RC theology see any coming out the second death purified?

No. Are you implying that the purification in purgatory is due to fire and brimstone. It is not. It is due to the fire of God's love. God is present in purgatory (just as he is here on earth) but in a different way, such that we are purified by his nearness, yet are not in his full heavenly prescence. In this state (more than a place) the final purification occurs. That is my understanding.

 

[Vic C.]

Hmm, it says "guest". I'm assuming it's you, Thess.


No, I wasn't actually implying anything. Just asking questions.

 

[thessalonian]

Hmm, it says "guest". I'm assuming it's you, Thess.


No, I wasn't actually implying anything. Just asking questions.

Odd. Yes that was me.

Ok.

 

[CatholicXian]

Purification of the soul is possible only because of the Sacrifice of Christ, to sum up.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Purification by fire sounds "universalistic" to me....

Or does the RCC version only involve believers?

 

[CatholicXian]

it only involves "believers", Soma. Purgatory is for the saved, not the damned.

 

[phatcatholic]

it only involves "believers", Soma. Purgatory is for the saved, not the damned.

well, more specifically, it involves all those who are in right relationship with God when they die. sometimes this involves non-Christians too, as long as it is out of ignorance that they never came to embrace Christianity. note also that not all religions provide an equally effective path to Christ, and the less and less one's religion shares with the truths of Christianity, the more perilous is his journey to God.

i don't want to derail this thread or anything, just wanted to bring out that nuance.

oh, and, HI EVERYONE! did you miss me? :D

 

[CatholicXian]

Of course we missed you, Phatty!

...Thanks for the clarification on my post (it was much needed). That was part of the reason I put believers in quotations, but now that I reflect on it, I think that just made it ambiguous rather than fully answering the question.