Who Does God Love?

[Quath]

This is a set of questions where I am trying to understand how people see God's love. It is confusing to me because God's actions to not show love from what I see. So I am curious as to how a Christian sees love in God in spite of his actions.

1. Does God love everyone?
I hear this a lot, but it doesn't seem Biblically sound. For example, Hosea 9:11-16 mentions that God hates some people.

2. Does God love the innocents?
God orders the innocent children at Jericho (and other places) to be killed with swords. Does God love these children?

3. Can you torture the one you love?
This kind of goes with the above question. If God loved those children and he ordered them to die a horrible, painful death, does that mean that you can kill in a painful way those you love?

4. Does God love you as much as he loves the children of Jericho?
If he does, do you worry he will do to you as he did to them?

 

[Vic C.]

This is all the love I need (John 3:14-21). I [don't care] how HE chose to deal with the people back then; I'm not to fret over the past. I know from God's word what lies ahead in the future for those who believe and put their trust in HIM. It is HIS Faith that I am dependant on in the end... HIS Faith and faithfullness.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Instead of dwelling on how God dealt with mankind in the past, you should consider this:

John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not....

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God....

 

[WiLdAtHeArT]

Does God love Satan?

(This question was asked by a 6 year old to a friend of mine. He had to say, "I'll get back to you on that one..." )

 

[lovely]

Hi Quath,

This is a set of questions where I am trying to understand how people see God's love. It is confusing to me because God's actions to not show love from what I see. So I am curious as to how a Christian sees love in God in spite of his actions.

Perhaps you are a tool of God that causes us to study to show ourselves approved unto Him. :wink:

1. Does God love everyone?
I hear this a lot, but it doesn't seem Biblically sound. For example, Hosea 9:11-16 mentions that God hates some people.

I don't believe that God loves everyone, but He has not made it known to me who, of men, He hates. I am instructed to love all, even my enemys, because they could be my brothers, and because God commanded it...it glorifies Him, and is a picture of His love to me. God loved me when I was still part of the world, and He loved my while I was still yet a sinner, but He also loved me before the foundations of the earth. He sent His son, and it pleased Him to bruise Him, for my sake...a sinner, who deserved judgment and death. I have been given a pardon, and mercy, and God's enemies will reject it, and refuse to see their sin. They have declared themselves to be His enemy, and He these he hates because of His own supreme holiness. I am His creation, and meant to glorify Him alone.

2. Does God love the innocents?
God orders the innocent children at Jericho (and other places) to be killed with swords. Does God love these children?

First of all, none are innocent because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Secondly, God is not evil, and death was a consequence of man's unbelief in God's word, and the deception of the evil one. Third, God was protecting His own children, with whom He had covenanted, and giving them a path through this world to carry His Word...eventually to all the nations. Fourth, this world is temporal, and some of these people could be at rest in Christ right now...who are we to know? It's my opinion that children are His, but Scripture is not clear on the matter...though I think it leans to that.

3. Can you torture the one you love?
This kind of goes with the above question. If God loved those children and he ordered them to die a horrible, painful death, does that mean that you can kill in a painful way those you love?

Death is painful, and some of God's children will suffer with cancer, and be martyred, and tortured prior to dying, but as I said God is not evil. This consequence, and sin, God has allowed for the sake of those who will come to Him...otherwise He would have put a stop to it sooner completely. Perhaps being killed quickly with a sword was a less painful way to die...I don't recall God ever saying for the Jews to torture anyone. The real answer is yes, it pleased God to bruise Him, His only Son, for the sake of his adopted children. He is longsuffering for our sakes, but does not condone sin, or take pleasure in it.

4. Does God love you as much as he loves the children of Jericho?
If he does, do you worry he will do to you as he did to them?

If we are His children, He loves us. I do not worry about such things because I am not an enemy of His children. I think if I were His enemy I wouldn't be worried about this death so much as the next one. As far as sin and death, I do worry at times because I lost children, and a husband, but it is not a prevailing thing in my life...just momentary. I haven't worried about it for quite some time now, by God's grace. I know that God is not evil, though, and that He allowed such things for His purpose.

These are my initial thoughts. The Lord bless you.

 

[Oscar3]

The Way of Love
1 13 If I speak with human eloquence and angelic ecstasy but don’t love, I’m nothing but the creaking of a rusty gate.
2 If I speak God’s Word with power, revealing all his mysteries and making everything plain as day, and if I have faith that says to a mountain, “Jump,†and it jumps, but I don’t love, I’m nothing.
3–7 If I give everything I own to the poor and even go to the stake to be burned as a martyr, but I don’t love, I’ve gotten nowhere. So, no matter what I say, what I believe, and what I do, I’m bankrupt without love.
Love never gives up.
Love cares more for others than for self.
Love doesn’t want what it doesn’t have.
Love doesn’t strut,
Doesn’t have a swelled head,
Doesn’t force itself on others,
Isn’t always “me first,â€Â
Doesn’t fly off the handle,
Doesn’t keep score of the sins of others,
Doesn’t revel when others grovel,
Takes pleasure in the flowering of truth,
Puts up with anything,
Trusts God always,
Always looks for the best,
Never looks back,
But keeps going to the end.
8–10 Love never dies. Inspired speech will be over some day; praying in tongues will end; understanding will reach its limit. We know only a portion of the truth, and what we say about God is always incomplete. But when the Complete arrives, our incompletes will be canceled.
11 When I was an infant at my mother’s breast, I gurgled and cooed like any infant. When I grew up, I left those infant ways for good.
12 We don’t yet see things clearly. We’re squinting in a fog, peering through a mist. But it won’t be long before the weather clears and the sun shines bright! We’ll see it all then, see it all as clearly as God sees us, knowing him directly just as he knows us!
13 But for right now, until that completeness, we have three things to do to lead us toward that consummation: Trust steadily in God, hope unswervingly, love extravagantly. And the best of the three is love.

 

[Dakota]

Can God create a stone he cannot move?

 

[Rick W]

Can God create a stone he cannot move?

God can do anything.

1) God can create the stone.
2) God can move the stone.

God cannot do anything.

1) God cannot create the stone.
2) God cannot move the stone.


Borrow one from the "God can do anything" category and match it with one from the "God cannot do anything" and WALLA!!! Instant paradox.


God can create the stone (from the first set)
God cannot move the stone (from the second set)
Put the two together And you get:
"Can God create a stone he cannot move?"

Now, go the other way:

God can move the stone anywhere He wants (from the first set)
God cannot create the stone (from the second set)
Put the two together And you get:
"Can God move a stone He cannot create?"

Pick a set. One or the other but not both for each opposes the other. Either He can do what He wants or He can't.

:smt102

 

[Solo]

Can God create a stone he cannot move?

Out of the four questions below, only one has the answer of YES, while the other three have the answer of NO.

1. Can man create anything from that which has not already been created?
   [/*:m:0bce3]
2. Can angels create anything from that which has not already been created?
   [/*:m:0bce3]
3. Can anyone but God create anything from that which has not already been created?
   [/*:m:0bce3]
4. Did Jesus create everything that was created?[/*:m:0bce3]

 

[Quath]

I [don't care] how HE chose to deal with the people back then; I'm not to fret over the past. I know from God's word what lies ahead in the future for those who believe and put their trust in HIM. It is HIS Faith that I am dependant on in the end... HIS Faith and faithfullness.

If God does not change and God shows his love in the past, then it does have relevance in the present. From Bible examples, God does not demostrate love today as he did in the past.

For example, in the past, God would curse someone who threatened those he loved. Today, a nun can get raped and beaten and God doesn't lift a finger. What changed? If God can not change and his love can not change, then why inaction?

If God is suppose to love us like a father loves a child, wouldn't a father help out a child getting raped and beaten? So God's love does not tend to match up with human type of love.

Does God love Satan?

Wow. That one is a good one. I can see the problems with simple answers to it. If God hates Satan, then why did God make Satan? If God loves Satan, then why does he love Satan more than some humans?

I don't believe that God loves everyone, but He has not made it known to me who, of men, He hates.

I think this is interesting in a way. God creates people. He creates Free Will. And He hates some of the stuff he makes. It just sounds like poor planning.

First of all, none are innocent because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Secondly, God is not evil, and death was a consequence of man's unbelief in God's word, and the deception of the evil one. Third, God was protecting His own children, with whom He had covenanted, and giving them a path through this world to carry His Word...eventually to all the nations. Fourth, this world is temporal, and some of these people could be at rest in Christ right now...who are we to know? It's my opinion that children are His, but Scripture is not clear on the matter...though I think it leans to that.

Then God's punishment is randomly arbitrary. The Israelite babies were just as guilty as the Jericho babies. So why kill some and not all? The Jericho babies were not a threat and did not need to be killed. If killing them was not evil, then it means that killing any child is not evil. That is the conundrum I see.

Perhaps being killed quickly with a sword was a less painful way to die...I don't recall God ever saying for the Jews to torture anyone.

I agree that there are worse ways to die than by the sword (like stoning). However, there are better ways to die, like peacefully in their sleep. Wouldn't God seem more loving if he at least had made the babies die in their sleep so they would not have to be run through with a sword?

Pick a set. One or the other but not both for each opposes the other. Either He can do what He wants or He can't.

I don't see how you tried to resolve this. Can a stone exist that God can not lift? If it can, then God is not all poweful. If it can't, then God can not make everything.

The problem is playing with concepts like "God can do the impossible." If that were true, then God is illogical. (For example, God can make himself not exist.) I think a better way is to claim that God is all powerful, but not contradictory. That clears up most of the paradoxes.

Can man create anything from that which has not already been created?

I am not sure I follow you. Was Hamlet or Romeo & Juliet already created before Shakespears wrote it?

 

[Rick W]

lol

Always did have fun with that question. Never really took it seriously as anything as proof of God's nature anyway. Your answer is a good one.
Another one goes something like:
What happens when an object that cannot be stopped collides with an object that cannot be moved?
8-)

 

[Quath]

What happens when an object that cannot be stopped collides with an object that cannot be moved?

Heh. Those questions can be fun. One interesting answer is to say the unstoppable object is like light and the immovable object is transparent. Then the paradox goes away. Otherwise I think you have to deal with infinite energies. :shocked!:

 

[Solo]

Heh. Those questions can be fun. One interesting answer is to say the unstoppable object is like light and the immovable object is transparent. Then the paradox goes away. Otherwise I think you have to deal with infinite energies. :shocked!:

Then the theory of relativity goes in the dumpster, especially since the speed of light is not a constant.

 

[JM]

Can God create a stone he cannot move?

There are things God can't do. God can't lie.

 

[Quath]

Then the theory of relativity goes in the dumpster, especially since the speed of light is not a constant.

Not sure why you said this or what the speed of light has to do with it.

 

[Rick W]

lol


What happens when an object that cannot be stopped collides with an object that cannot be moved?

Maybe the unstoppable orbits the unmovable. But then there's supposed to be a collision.
Oh well.
:-?

 

[Relic]

.


Why did Quath truly create this thread? What's Quath trying to prove here, that God is a killer God?

Quath, if you order a guy from the pest control company to come and destroy a swarm of killer bees who have invaded your home would you be considered a killer or a person full of Hate? Do those killer bees have a right to invade your sanctuary and go about viciously stinging and killing off the people who live in your home? Do you have no other choice but to kill off the killer bees who invade the home you built, the home you created?
Can anyone convert those killer bees to abide by your terms to live in peace within the walls of your home and to stop stinging your family?
But then, if anyone would try to tell those bees they have no rights to go around stinging people and killing them off, wouldn't then those killer bees have a right to take those people to court and accuse them of being bee-phobic, and that they (the bees) have every right to do what they want to do? After all they were born that way! And they have their rights too you know. :roll:

Here's an idea, Yeah! Let's bring back the dinosaurs and allow them to live in our neighborhoods and take over as they so please to do! :


Seems to me that Quath believes that the wicked have every right to exist amongst anyone they so desire, as long as they don't hurt anyone and stick to following the "golden rule". : Geez, I wonder what should be done with the terrorists that are going about for the last few decades bombing embassies and twin towers and kidnapping and cutting off heads of innocent people? I'm sure Quath has all the answers as to how to treat the killer bees of this world. :roll:

Hey, you guys, Saddam Hussein is getting executed very soon.
And geez! Saddam thought he was an immovable force that no one could stop. :-?
So then.... Guess you can stop an immovable force! 8-) :roll:

What happens when an object that cannot be stopped collides with an object that cannot be moved?

And who says God cannot create miracles?
God's supernatural powers will blow the mind of any "man" ! 8-)





.

 

[Quath]

Why did Quath truly create this thread? What's Quath trying to prove here, that God is a killer God?

I don't think that God asked people to kill is in question.

Quath, if you order a guy from the pest control company to come and destroy a swarm of killer bees who have invaded your home would you be considered a killer or a person full of Hate? Do those killer bees have a right to invade your sanctuary and go about viciously stinging and killing off the people who live in your home? Do you have no other choice but to kill off the killer bees who invade the home you built, the home you created?

I am trying to understand your analogy. In this analogy, I am God; the Pest Control company are the Israelites; and the bees are the people of Jericho. Let me know if that is wrong.

In this case, I may hate the bees. But if I have the power, why kill them? Why not call a bee keeper to come and get them and take them to a safe place where they can make honey? I may be upset at the bees, but I would not hate them, for they do what their nature tells them to do.

Here's an idea, Yeah! Let's bring back the dinosaurs and allow them to live in our neighborhoods and take over as they so please to do! :

You seem to believe that the only choice at Jericho was to kill them. However, God had many, many choices like:

1. Spare the children and let them join the tribe of Israel.
2. Teleport the people of Jericho to an uninhabited island (or even another planet).
3. Make the people of Jericho go infertile 60 years prior.
4. Let angels gently kill them in their sleep so they feel no pain.
5. Let the children live so they may have the choice to worship god or not.

Instead God chose one of the bloodiest and painful choices he could have made. That seems odd when all of the choices above would have been kinder and more morally good to the children in that city.

Seems to me that Quath believes that the wicked have every right to exist amongst anyone they so desire, as long as they don't hurt anyone and stick to following the "golden rule". : Geez, I wonder what should be done with the terrorists that are going about for the last few decades bombing embassies and twin towers and kidnapping and cutting off heads of innocent people? I'm sure Quath has all the answers as to how to treat the killer bees of this world. :roll:

If terrorists are causing terror, they are not living by the golden rule. Society punishes those that do not live by its agreements.

But if we follow the Bible, we should hunt down the terrorists and kill them along with their children. Does that sound like a good idea?

 

[Relic]

In the above analogy, those bees are "killer" bees, bees that cannot be tamed unless they are some how altered to not be vicious any longer. So they would not make good honey bees, they may produce some honey, but those who harvest the honey would have to be protected from their vicious attacks and would have to make sure these bees are not around other people. Killer bees are vicious bees, they cannot be distrubed like honey bees can. Killer bees get vicous when disturbed.

If terrorists are causing terror, they are not living by the golden rule. Society punishes those that do not live by its agreements.

But if we follow the Bible, we should hunt down the terrorists and kill them along with their children. Does that sound like a good idea?

Was it a good idea to go fight against Hitler?

Was it a good idea to get rid of Saddam Hussein's sons who would have carried on after him?

Was it a good idea to convict Saddam of murdering 180 people (a fraction of how many he really killed) and sentence him to death?



.

 

[Quath]

In the above analogy, those bees are "killer" bees, bees that cannot be tamed unless they are some how altered to not be vicious any longer. So they would not make good honey bees, they may produce some honey, but those who harvest the honey would have to be protected from their vicious attacks and would have to make sure these bees are not around other people. Killer bees are vicious bees, they cannot be distrubed like honey bees can. Killer bees get vicous when disturbed.

If they are like real "killer" bees, then they are now the preferred type of bees to get honey from. They may be dangerous, but people adapt to work with them since they make more honey.

However, if these "killer" bees have no free will to change, then the analogy breaks down unless God does not give humanity free will.

Was it a good idea to go fight against Hitler?

Hitler was the aggressor and we did not target German children in our war.

Was it a good idea to get rid of Saddam Hussein's sons who would have carried on after him?

At the age they were, it was pretty certain they would follow in their father's steps. However, if they had been 6 months old, would you have wanted the babies killed?

Was it a good idea to convict Saddam of murdering 180 people (a fraction of how many he really killed) and sentence him to death?

I don't think he received a just trial, so I rather he get an appeal for a new trial. So so far, I would have to say it is a bad idea.

But if is found to be guilty, then I rather see him get life without parole.

I think one of the toughest questions a Christian can ask themself is "Would I kill a baby with a sword if God asked me to?" That puts their belief they have been told against the belief that it is wrong. Yet according to the Bible, God asked many people to do this when it was not necessary. That does not seem like love or goodness to me. My guess is that most Christians feel this way as well. But they can not admit it out of fear of betraying their religious beliefs or of making God angry.

 

[Relic]

.

So you Quath have all the answers as to how these people should have been treated? :roll:

I'm not God, Quath. I don't have all the answers. I'm sure there are valid explanations to why the people of Jericho were not spared in the way in which YOU think they should have been spared.
God knows a stubborn heart more than any man can even imagine. And God knows the value of when to be gentle and when to show His wrath at whatever time is deemed appropriate. And God knows the blood line better than any man can know. The spirit which man clings to influences and infuses the material. God knows the strain of man and how long it will take for change to take place. He also knows when corruption has become so horrid that there is no other but to wipe out a people. Noah was prepared for that destruction. And God saves those that are His.... Lot was saved from the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.
But you Quath, someone who doesn't even believe in God argues that God should have done this or that. And that amazes me.
There is a sparkle of hope for you yet. And I pray you come to understand that the almighty has every right to deal with a wicked people as HE deems fit. God knows the heart of a people whether they will choose between evil or good, and how stubborn a man will be... God gives man over to what man is in his heart. If you refuse to harken to his voice, God will give you over to what you harken to...He will make you what you are in your heart. A person is whatever seed they plant. Seeds are of the spirit, planted into the material. IF your seed is bad do you think God will not know it and that your fruit will also produce that which is bad?

Why do you think God should do it your way? Most of your postings dictate how you think God should have done this or that. Instead of you looking to see how God knows the heart of the wicked, you see God's treatment of the wicked as a wickedness in itself. Don't you know that the wicked bring on their own demise? God knows when a people are so vile that even their children cannot be spared. Why do you judge God's judgement? You think your judgement is better than God's? You think by sparing what is so vile that it will be transformed just by doing it "your" way? As if God doesn't know what will be in their heart past present and future? God knows the heart of a man well before that person was born. Why would Quath's way of things be better than that of God's way of handling matters of a mans wicked vile evil heart what has become so embedded into it's offspring that there is no other option but to extinguish them? You think Noah didn't know of the wickedness that filled the earth? You think Lot didn't know of the evil in the City of Sodom and Gomorrah? You think Jonah didn't know how wicked the people of Nineveh were? God wanted to save all good people. but when the heart is stubborn evil why would God allow them to continue to corrupt? Wouldn't you think they too would continue to be evil?

There are many people who serve jail sentences to only come out to be repeat live long criminals.
They are nothing without the Redeeming sacrifice of Christ Jesus.

If you don't like the way God is working things out and you have qualms about the timing of God... I don't know what else to say but that you need to learn what faith, hope, and patience is all about. Hope for things unseen. It's all in God's timing Quath..... Not our timing. We pray for things unseen. It is in so doing that we will see the Victory. There is much to be learned. You jump to judgement of God too quickly. Instead you must learn to be understanding of His plan and His timing. sorry he isn't jumping to how you want it to all be done. Have it Quath's way.... is that it?

And so you may ask:
Why doesn't God just make all bees gentle?
Why doesn't God just make all people live in peace with each other?
Why doesn't God just make it impossible to for anyone to disagree?
Why doesn't God just make all killing cease at the instant snap of His finger?

God isn't going to make us all robots.

The snap of God's finger may not be according to YOUR timing, Quath... Aye?

God's word, God's way, God's timing...... God's snap of the finger comes only in HIS timing. Not your sense of what time it should have been. Not Quath's word, Quath's way, or Quath's timing.

What Quath needs is to learn of the faith, the hope, and the patience God offers to us all.
You only need to accept it and believe Jesus is the Holy redeemer and Savior for all who accept Him.

The New covenant has arrived Quath. Why do you dwell on the lost who were from so long ago?
God does not worry about them... He knew their wicked stubborn hearts were inbred into their blood line better than what you think you know, Quath.
God did with them what needed to be done. God alerts his good people of the evil that is abound... and God protects His people... why are you so concerned with how God deals with the wicked and uses that as an example of what evil bring about? If God sees that a people must be executed, why do you condemn God for being rid of the wickedness that is so embedded into them at that time? Why do you think God is delaying his redemption? And why do you think God should do it your way, as opposed to His way and timing? If God wants to flood them from off the face of this earth then so be it. If God wants to rid the wickedness from off of this earth by way of death, then what is it to you? We should all be concerned how God is going to deal with us when we come face to face with Him and he says ,Why do you think your way is better than mine? and, What have you done with your life?

We all have to face God one day and answer to him. Why do you think your way is better than God's way? The earth has been trembling for a very long time and if you don't like it are you going to tell God that he is mean because the earth trembles?

It's all about God's way. Not Quath's way.

God isn't going to make us all a bunch of robots and take away all the free will from everyone. A loving God will not take our freedom to chose away, but He will show us the laws which govern between good and evil. And he will let us have our own will to be in our own heart.

If God was not so loving, would he have given Satan freedom to choose?
Would He have given Adam and Eve freedom to choose?

Why doesn't God just make everyone see Jesus Christ as the Lord who Saves them from all that horrible sin without having to go through all the wickedness? Because then we would be robots without knowing how to decern what is good or evil. God's way is the first impression, but satan interferes and says no God didn't say that. And so the lie is born into existence. and we have choices to make between good and evil. We are not robots. God allows good and evil but holds HIS people accountable to His standards of what is Holy.

In due time... In God's own time. Christ Jesus was born in the flesh for our example of His saving grace for all to come to that plan of Salvation, it is there for those who are willing to give themselves over to Him, His Holiness. Until then.... Men who are outside of Christ salvation, will continue to do what secular ignorance dictates to them. They will continue to ignore the calling. We all have choice. without choice we would be nothing but robots, clay vessels, without a mind of our own. We are a people who have been given freedom of choice and an absolute law to abide by. The laws of good and evil are both absolutes that cannot be denied. We all have a choice to listen to the calling of His holiness or to ignore it or be subject to the laws that govern the spirit. How God deals with it is up to Him.

God has given us a New Covenant (which was, is, and always will be, in God's timing) ... Jesus Christ is our Holy redeemer. That which was veiled, (old testament) is now revealed (new testament) . The time has arrived.

Will the wicked submit?
Or, is Quath's way better than the way of God?

.