Who is Christ?

[Guest]

In my recent studies of Hebrews (of which I am currently still studying), the question is asked Who is Christ? The author of Hebrews outlines for the Jewish audience he was writting to exactly who Christ is:

Jesus Christ is God!

Hebrews 1:8a "But of the Son He[God] says: "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever."

Here the Father (God) says to the Son - that his throne will last forever and ever. God the Father acknowledges that the Son is God!

This however, is not the only evidence that Christ is God.

Christ, Himself, makes claim to his Deity:

"For this cayse therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself [Jesus Christ] equal with God (John 5:18).

Only GOD, himself can be equal to God!

Again, in John 10:30 - Jesus says that "I and the Father are one."

Jesus clearly makes his own claim to Diety.

Yet, there is more! The Apostles also make the claim that Jesus is Diety.

In Titus 2:13 Paul writes: "...looking for the blressed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ."

1 John 5:20 states: "And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding, in order that we might know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life."

Without doubt, made crystal clear throughout the NT, Jesus Christ is God!

Who is Christ? Christ is God!

 

[Imagican]

My replies to individual statements will be bolded

In my recent studies of Hebrews (of which I am currently still studying), the question is asked Who is Christ? The author of Hebrews outlines for the Jewish audience he was writting to exactly who Christ is:

Jesus Christ is God!

Hebrews 1:8a "But of the Son He[God] says: "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever."

This one is certainly a tough one to explain.

Here the Father (God) says to the Son - that his throne will last forever and ever. God the Father acknowledges that the Son is God!

This however, is not the only evidence that Christ is God.

Christ, Himself, makes claim to his Deity:

"For this cayse therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself [Jesus Christ] equal with God (John 5:18).

Only GOD, himself can be equal to God!

Untrue. God CAN make ANYONE or ANYTHING equal to Himself WITHOUT that 'person or thing' BEING God. God has offered HIS power over and over to NUMEROUS persons throughout history. That did NOT make them God Himself.

Again, in John 10:30 - Jesus says that "I and the Father are one."

And this IS truth. For; as We and Christ ARE able to BE one, a man and a woman ARE able to BE one, Christ and God ARE as ONE. But this is NOT in substance so far as ENTITY is concerned; this is ONE IN SUBSTANCE SO FAR AS SPIRIT IS CONCERNED.

Jesus clearly makes his own claim to Diety.

Yet, there is more! The Apostles also make the claim that Jesus is Diety.

In Titus 2:13 Paul writes: "...looking for the blressed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ."

You certainly may interpret this to SAY that our great God and Savior IS Jesus Christ but what it is REALLY saying is that those were looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of Our Great God AND our Savior Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:20 states: "And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding, in order that we might know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life."

On this one you missed it by a MILE; Here, I'll show you what it is REALLY saying;

and has given us understanding in order that we might KNOW Him, GOD, who is true, and we are IN HIM that is true, God, and in His Son Jesus Christ. Otherwise the part that states IN HIS SON would make NO sense whatsoever. In other words, you show us; in this understanding of YOUR interpretation of what is being said here WHERE God fits in so that the use of the words; in His Son would make ANY sense. You are simply grasping at straws on this one.........Christ CAME and offered understanding so that WE may KNOW God

Without doubt, made crystal clear throughout the NT, Jesus Christ is God!

Who is Christ? Christ is God!

So; in your understanding Jesus IS NOT THE SON, but IS God Himself? And HOW you 'suppose' that it is crystal clear doesn't even come CLOSE to being so in MY understanding. JUST the OPPOSITE in fact. Christ IS who He STATED He IS; and this IS; the Son of God.

You have chosen to 'see' what you WANT to see in the few words that you have offered in defense of such a belief. But I could sit for the next WEEK and offer scripture that REFUTES what you have offered here.

If that is possible then there is OBVIOUSLY some kind of mis-interpretation on YOUR end. For you choose to IGNORE such statements as 'the Father, (who we KNOW IS God), is greater than I'. And 'My Father, (who we KNOW IS God), why hath thou forsaken ME'. Or statements concerning there being information that EVEN the Son is NOT privilege to, but ONLY the Father has such knowledge. Or the voice that came from heaven when Christ, (the Son of God), was baptized.

These questions and their answers offer PERFECT evidence that 'trinity' is NOT an explanation that FITS ALL of scripture which a TRUTH MUST. It is simply a 'philosophical approach' based on previous beliefs from 'other religions'. That simple. No different than worshiping Mary or praying to Saints. These 'things' are 'believed' by MANY yet MOST blessed with the TRUTH KNOW that they are simply 'man-made' beliefs that have NO place in truth whatsoever.

So, alone, you MAY convince yourself, (and others that are UNLEARNED), of your beliefs so far as Christ's deity is concerned. Anyone CAN 'believe' WHATEVER it is that they CHOOSE to believe. And in THEIR hearts this may SEEM to be truth. But there is ONLY ONE TRUTH and that is that God IS the Father and Christ IS The Son. Of THAT one can REST ASSURED. 'Trinity'; Jesus IS God, that is MERE 'belief' that cannot be substantiated through the Word UNLESS one CHOOSES to 'SEE' and 'believe it'.

MEC

 

[MrVersatile48]

Timely Word 4 Today

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Christ is Coming Again!

The nations will fear the name of the LORD,
all the kings of the earth
will revere your glory.
For the LORD will rebuild Zion and
appear in his glory.

Psalm 102:15,16 NIV

__________________

All the ends of the world shall remember
and turn unto the LORD:
and all the kindreds of the nations
shall worship before thee.
For the kingdom is the LORD's:
and he is the governor among the nations.

Psalm 22:27,28 KJV

__________________

A voice is calling,
"Clear the way for the LORD in the wilderness;
Make smooth in the desert a highway for our God.

Let every valley be lifted up,
And every mountain and hill be made low;
And let the rough ground become a plain,
And the rugged terrain a broad valley;
Then the glory of the LORD will be revealed,
And all flesh will see it together;
For the mouth of the LORD has spoken."

Isaiah 40:3-4 NASB

__________________

Thanks be unto God for His wonderful gift:
Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God
is the object of our faith; the only faith
that saves is faith in Him.



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Through the Bible in a Year - Readings for May 28
May 28: Romans 3:9-31, 1 Samuel 12, Psalm 57

Click Here for the complete schedule

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==================================================================

Only God can be called 'the Lord'

God the Son is the 2nd Person in the Trinity - the LOrd Jesus Christ

Hebrew 'Elohim', translated as 'the Lord', is plural, yet the verbs with it are consistently singular, expressing the '3-in-one & 1-in-3'

John 1, Colossians 1 & Hebrews 1 show most clearly that Jesus is the Almighty Creator in human form

John 1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2He was with God in the beginning.

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.


The Supremacy of Christ - Col 1

15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.


Hebrews 1

5For to which of the angels did God ever say,
"You are my Son;
today I have become your Father[a]"? Or again,
"I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son"[c]? 6And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

"Let all God's angels worship him."[d] 7In speaking of the angels he says,
"He makes his angels winds,
his servants flames of fire."[e]

8But about the Son he says,
"Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.


God bless!

Ian

 

[MarkT]

So; in your understanding Jesus IS NOT THE SON, but IS God Himself? And HOW you 'suppose' that it is crystal clear doesn't even come CLOSE to being so in MY understanding. JUST the OPPOSITE in fact. Christ IS who He STATED He IS; and this IS; the Son of God.

You have chosen to 'see' what you WANT to see in the few words that you have offered in defense of such a belief. But I could sit for the next WEEK and offer scripture that REFUTES what you have offered here.

If that is possible then there is OBVIOUSLY some kind of mis-interpretation on YOUR end. For you choose to IGNORE such statements as 'the Father, (who we KNOW IS God), is greater than I'. And 'My Father, (who we KNOW IS God), why hath thou forsaken ME'. Or statements concerning there being information that EVEN the Son is NOT privilege to, but ONLY the Father has such knowledge. Or the voice that came from heaven when Christ, (the Son of God), was baptized.

These questions and their answers offer PERFECT evidence that 'trinity' is NOT an explanation that FITS ALL of scripture which a TRUTH MUST. It is simply a 'philosophical approach' based on previous beliefs from 'other religions'. That simple. No different than worshiping Mary or praying to Saints. These 'things' are 'believed' by MANY yet MOST blessed with the TRUTH KNOW that they are simply 'man-made' beliefs that have NO place in truth whatsoever.

So, alone, you MAY convince yourself, (and others that are UNLEARNED), of your beliefs so far as Christ's deity is concerned. Anyone CAN 'believe' WHATEVER it is that they CHOOSE to believe. And in THEIR hearts this may SEEM to be truth. But there is ONLY ONE TRUTH and that is that God IS the Father and Christ IS The Son. Of THAT one can REST ASSURED. 'Trinity'; Jesus IS God, that is MERE 'belief' that cannot be substantiated through the Word UNLESS one CHOOSES to 'SEE' and 'believe it'.

Hi Imagican

I wouldn't say there's nothing in the Trinity. 'Father' and 'Son', for example, are seen as persons. That's OK. The idea that they are separate and not the same should follow, as no two persons are alike and it should follow, if we relate Jesus to ourselves, that a son can not be his own father. A son can become a father according to the flesh. However, Jesus said, 'call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven'. So by this we know Jesus was not speaking of the flesh. He returned to his Father and our Father. So we know there is one Father, the source of all.

But then again our life does come from the Father so in that sense there is a oneness about us; separate from one another in the flesh but one in spirit.

I think I said earlier that Jesus Christ was the appearance of God in the flesh and that God was the source of the Word. In other words, it was God who gave us his Word or God was the 'Who' that the 'Word' came from. If we look at God's Word, for example, 'I AM WHO I AM', we see at once that the word 'WHO' appears in the midst of this statement. In other words, if we look at it from a spiritual point of view, 'WHO' lives in or dwells in 'I AM'. That's consistent with what Jesus said. And it's consistent with what Paul said about God dwelling in unapproachable light. If God is 'WHO' in the statement, then 'I AM' represents the light. 'I AM' is the beginning and the end of the statement. If 'I AM WHO I AM' is the Word and 'I AM' represents his name, then God (or 'WHO') is in his name. So it follows then that the LORD is in the LORD as the LORD is the name we know God by. And it would be true that Jesus was the LORD, the name in whom God dwelt. The LORD (God) is WHO the LORD (his name) came from. At the same time his Word was in himself.

So what can we say? The LORD is Holy. So when we say, 'blessed be thy name', we should understand we are referring to his Son, Jesus Christ.

 

[cyberjosh]

Untrue. God CAN make ANYONE or ANYTHING equal to Himself WITHOUT that 'person or thing' BEING God.

Interesting Imagician. You inadvertently make my point/arguement for there being free will by showing how wrong the negative extreme is, for I said:

"Did Jesus have free will when he was in the flesh? If not then why did Jesus say that the people did not take his life from him but that he layed it down freely? Else are we to believe that the atonement was puppeteered? And if that is the case anyone could have been puppeteered by God to accomplish that task, even me. "

and also:

"If Jesus was a puppet (even his righteousness) then God could have made anyone perfectly righteous to suit his standard & purpose. Thus Jesus had free will. "

It's impossible that Jesus gave a puppeteered atonement, thus it shoots down the tongue-in-cheek I gave and also your rediculous claim that God could possibly make a sinner equal to himself. God said that no one shall ever share his glory, for he is One - yet Jesus does....what does that tell you?

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[Free]

If that is possible then there is OBVIOUSLY some kind of mis-interpretation on YOUR end. For you choose to IGNORE such statements as 'the Father, (who we KNOW IS God), is greater than I'. And 'My Father, (who we KNOW IS God), why hath thou forsaken ME'. Or statements concerning there being information that EVEN the Son is NOT privilege to, but ONLY the Father has such knowledge. Or the voice that came from heaven when Christ, (the Son of God), was baptized.

How many times Imagican? How many times must the same thing be said in order for you to grasp what is being said? You continue to ignore what the doctrine of the Trinity is stating.

The doctrine of the Trinity was developed (some would say 'discovered') precisely because of what aLoneVoice has shown from Scripture and because of Scriptures to which you are referring. Jesus is both the Son of God and God, both God and man.

Your position has an insurmountable problem in that you must ignore the passages that aLoneVoice gave and look only at the Scriptures you refer to. You are not taking all of Scripture into account which is why your understanding of God is false.

God CAN make ANYONE or ANYTHING equal to Himself WITHOUT that 'person or thing' BEING God.

That is false. To be equal to God is to be God. To not be God there must be a characteristic or something else that God has that that 'person or thing' does not have. If something is lacking, then that 'person or thing' cannot be equal to God. This is simple logic Imagican.

God has offered HIS power over and over to NUMEROUS persons throughout history.

God has given people power through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as shown throughout Scripture, but none of them claims to be God or is said to have equality with God. If you think otherwise, please provide Scriptural support.