Who is Given Eternal Life ?

[savedbygrace57]

When all is said and done, we know that there is only one goup of people that shall have Eternal Life given them. Listen to the words of my Blessed Saviour Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

To as many as the Father hath given Christ !

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

1 John 5:12-13 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Those whom the Father hath given Him are the same as the Sheep that God hath given Him and to whom He gives Eternal Life to notice:

Jn 10:27-29

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all;

 

[Webb]

Did the Father give them to Christ as individuals by name or as a class who would hear Christ and follow Him?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Christ is to give eternal life to as many as the Father hath given Him..

The word given here is the greek word Didomi and it means in this case:

to give over to one's care, intrust, commit !

God the Father before the world began gave, entrusted into the care of His Son, all those who would be called into salvation in time..

Jude writes of this Jude 1:

1Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

They were preserved by Jesus Christ and then in time called by the Gospel..

Also the word given in Jn 17 2 is in the greek a perfect tense verb ! This means:

The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated.

So the giving was an action by the Father in the past [eternity] completed once and for all..Not ever needing to be repeated..Once belonging to Christ by the will of the Father, always will belong to Him forever..

And to these, and these only shall be given Eternal life..

 

[John Zain]

Real quickly ...

The predestination verses far outweigh the free-will verses.
But, they both fit together when you see that God sees all of our choices even before we are born.
So, He knows who He desires to choose.

But, the killer is ... Paul's words about God MAKING vessels for glory and vessels for destruction,
which totally negate any of the above free-will choices.
Thus, the two sets of verses above really don't fit together after all.

I was told by a guy about 15 years ago (who was doing some prophesying)
that the free-will verses were kind of threats (i.e. bluffs, but not lies)
to help people stay on the straight and narrow.
They do counter-balance the obvious Truth of the predestination verses,
which are very tempting for many to sin their way to salvation.

So, my only question is:
Can people just "thrown away" the grace given to them ... and lose their salvation?
And, yes, there are verses on both sides of this as well.

I guess this wasn't "real quickly" after all.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Heb 6:17 The Heirs of Promise !

17Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

Now who are the Heirs of Promise ? Its Abraham's seed in Christ, for Christ is Heir of Promise and those who are true believers in Him Gal 3:16.29

16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You see that, in vs 16 Christ singular is specified as Abraham's seed to whom the promises were made and in vs 29 believers plural are specified as Abraham's seed, thats because Christ and believers are One, as He is the Head of His Body which consists of many members..

And so the Heirs of Promise are all those whom have Eternal Life in Christ, who is their Eternal Life 1 Jn 1:1-2

1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us)

It or He Jesus Christ, Eternal Life was manifested to His Apostles because they were Heirs of Promise, and so will it be manifested to all the Heirs of Promise in due time..

God will be Faithful to the seed or heirs of Promise in bringing to pass their experiential receiving of Eternal life here in this life to begin Rom 4:13-17


13For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

15Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

16Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

17(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Now the Heirs by Nature are children of wrath even as others, and are born spiritually dead and alienated from the Life of God..

But because they are Heirs, they will receive a Divine quickening call from the dead [as Lazarus] to begin to experience their Eternal Inheritance Heb 9:15

15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

This is because Eternal Life to them has been promised by God through the Head of the Seed Christ Jesus 1 Jn 2:25

25And this is the promise that he hath promised us[The Heirs of Promise], even eternal life.

Eternal Life is not a conditional offer to everyone without exception, but a Promise given to those who are Heirs of Promise..

This is based on the Everlasting Covenant made with Christ their Head, and they in Him, which God cannot break Jer 32:40

40And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

Also this promise secures that the recipients cannot break, or depart from God.

In this verse we have Two Promises on God's Part #1 That He will not turn away from them to do them [Heirs] Good and 2 God has promised to put His fear in their hearts, that they shall not turn away from Him or apostatize..

And God demonstrates these things to the Heirs of promise from generation to generation until the end of the world..Heb 6:17

17Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

 

[elijah23]

When all is said and done, we know that there is only one goup of people that shall have Eternal Life given them. Listen to the words of my Blessed Saviour Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

To as many as the Father hath given Christ !

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 RSV

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

So, my only question is:
Can people just "thrown away" the grace given to them ... and lose their salvation?

Yes. ref. 2 Pt. 2:21 which is one example. Calvinism fits into the criteria of this example by the false conjecture that a person who is elected is only elected to be saved and that their election has ocurred prior to the event of their natural birth. However natural birth is the process by which we are all here and that process is warranted to have no validity to produce a child of God. ref. Jn. 1:13, not by natural descent. The rule of logic is that it is only necessary to reference one counter to a system of logic to prove a system to be illogical. So the truth is that every natural born person is not a child of God. Calvinism's failure is that it is only necessary to believe that one has been elected to be elected. Therefore skipping the actual fact that it is mandatory, as an absolute, to first hear and then be fully convinced that it is only by the obedience of a sacred command that the naturally born are born of God.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Eternal life that we [ the elect or believers] receive experimentally in time, was given to us in Christ, as we had been chosen in him before the foundation of the world as His seed. Now as His Life as the Son of God was derived out of the very essence of thew Eternal God, and we as his seed were in His loins, just as when God created Adam out of the dust of the ground we were in his loins, and so because of that, we receive our temporal lives from that temporal life we had in Adam, so , in like manner, we receive our Eternal life from that from that Life given us in the Son of God.

Thats why its stated 1 Jn 5:11

11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

So we merely receive life of that which we had in our respective heads, if Adam was our head, we recieve natural and temporal life, we were chosen in adam as his posterity, if Christ, the Son of God was our Head,we receive Eternal Life, we were chosen in Him as His posterity...

Hence Jesus says Jn 17:2

2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

 

[mondar]

When all is said and done, we know that there is only one goup of people that shall have Eternal Life given them. Listen to the words of my Blessed Saviour Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

To as many as the Father hath given Christ !

John 6: 37 All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Out of those that come to Christ by the efforts and work of Christ.... pick one below....
1 some of those were given by the Father.
2 many of those were given by the Father.
3 most of those were given by the Father.
4 nearly all of those were given by the Father.
5 all.....
6 I dunno, what does this have to do with John 3:16 anyway?

No one can come to Christ, but the one given and then drawn by the Father.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

John 6: 37 All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Out of those that come to Christ by the efforts and work of Christ.... pick one below....
1 some of those were given by the Father.
2 many of those were given by the Father.
3 most of those were given by the Father.
4 nearly all of those were given by the Father.
5 all.....
6 I dunno, what does this have to do with John 3:16 anyway?

No one can come to Christ, but the one given and then drawn by the Father.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

Christ died for a world of lost sinners. And has made available His mercy and forgiveness to everyone. You must first "hear" God's word about salvation, then the Holy Spirit uses the word to "convict" you of your sins, then you must place your faith in Christ as your Lord and Savior. Then the Spirit "sanctify's," indwells and seals you. And your put into the body of Christ. You are now considered a "born again, child of God...

 

[savedbygrace57]

mondar asked

Out of those that come to Christ by the efforts and work of Christ.... pick one below....
1 some of those were given by the Father.
2 many of those were given by the Father.
3 most of those were given by the Father.
4 nearly all of those were given by the Father.
5 all.....

# 5

 

[savedbygrace57]

gm

Christ died for a world of lost sinners

Thats agreed upon. However according to you, that did not save them..

 

[mondar]

Christ died for a world of lost sinners. And has made available His mercy and forgiveness to everyone. You must first "hear" God's word about salvation, then the Holy Spirit uses the word to "convict" you of your sins, then you must place your faith in Christ as your Lord and Savior. Then the Spirit "sanctify's," indwells and seals you. And your put into the body of Christ. You are now considered a "born again, child of God...

Even then, if I point to a text, will you discuss it? Or would you do as most here do and jump to a different text?

You seem to believe that any man can come to Christ.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

What does your bible say in John 6:44? Maybe your translation read different. Can you pick one below?
1---- "Any man" can come to me."
2---- "some men can come to me"
3---- "A few men can come to me"
4---- "no man can come to me"

Everyone agrees that we must first hear the gospel. That of course is a straw man. When a man comes to the gospel, it is due to the work of God in man, and not the work of man for God. Faith is a divine undertaking where God brings about faith. Without God, "no man can come to me."

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Even then, if I point to a text, will you discuss it? Or would you do as most here do and jump to a different text?

You seem to believe that any man can come to Christ.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

What does your bible say in John 6:44? Maybe your translation read different. Can you pick one below?
1---- "Any man" can come to me."
2---- "some men can come to me"
3---- "A few men can come to me"
4---- "no man can come to me"

Everyone agrees that we must first hear the gospel. That of course is a straw man. When a man comes to the gospel, it is due to the work of God in man, and not the work of man for God. Faith is a divine undertaking where God brings about faith. Without God, "no man can come to me."

Although I know, beforehand you will disagree (no doubt of that) I will declare what I believe, without using other Scripture (as you instructed)

Mondar-----John 6:44 (No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.)

Grubal-----First of all, we must recognize that Christ is "specifically" speaking to the Jews, (the Gentiles weren't "branched" in tell later) Having said that, God calls ALL men to Him, otherwise man wouldn't come. Man must however, place his "faith" before salvation can take place. Not ALL men are willing though. The ones that do are considered a "child of God" and will receive "eternal life."

Mondar---- What does your bible say in John 6:44? Maybe your translation read different. Can you pick one below?
1---- "Any man" can come to me."
2---- "some men can come to me"
3---- "A few men can come to me"
4---- "no man can come to me"

We must 'declare" the entire verse, lest a point be made through a partial reading. So, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. What is being referenced here is, the fact that God has chosen to "draw" ALL men (we know from other verses, but you don't wish to go that route) to Christ.

Mondar---Everyone agrees that we must first hear the gospel. That of course is a straw man. When a man comes to the gospel, it is due to the work of God in man, and not the work of man for God. Faith is a divine undertaking where God brings about faith. Without God, "no man can come to me."[/QUOTE]

Grubal-----God indeed uses His word to declare His "provision" for the forgiveness of sin and to show His mercy, through Christ...Before a man can receive the Gospel, he must first, "believe." Christ has "done" "ALL" the work, we must provide the faith in what He's done...God created man with a "free-will" to choose what he will place his faith in... God doesn't force (a supernatural faith) on or in anyone. They must place their faith in Christ and Him alone to be saved...

 

[glorydaz]

gm



Thats agreed upon. However according to you, that did not save them..

Sins are forgiven through Christ's death...we're saved by His life (resurrection).

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Christ's death reconciled mankind to God...we are no longer enemies.
Now we are free to look to Jesus Christ as our saviour and believe He raised again...thus we are saved by entering into His life ....abiding in Him as born again children of God.

I know you won't hear this SbyG, but I'm writing to those who may be reading.
I just want to get the fair and balanced story straight.

 

[savedbygrace57]

glory

Sins are forgiven through Christ's death

Yes..

we're saved by His life (resurrection).

Ok

Christ's death reconciled mankind to God.

Not everyone without exception,the elect !

...we are no longer enemies.

Those who Christ died for .

Now we are free to look to Jesus Christ as our saviour and believe He raised again...thus we are saved by entering into His life

False, The elect are saved by His Life, not by their looking to him and entering into him. Looking and Entering are works of man, things they do. Thats salvation by works again..

 

[glorydaz]

Real quickly ...

The predestination verses far outweigh the free-will verses.
But, they both fit together when you see that God sees all of our choices even before we are born.
So, He knows who He desires to choose.

But, the killer is ... Paul's words about God MAKING vessels for glory and vessels for destruction,
which totally negate any of the above free-will choices.
Thus, the two sets of verses above really don't fit together after all.

I was told by a guy about 15 years ago (who was doing some prophesying)
that the free-will verses were kind of threats (i.e. bluffs, but not lies)
to help people stay on the straight and narrow.
They do counter-balance the obvious Truth of the predestination verses,
which are very tempting for many to sin their way to salvation.

So, my only question is:
Can people just "thrown away" the grace given to them ... and lose their salvation?
And, yes, there are verses on both sides of this as well.

I guess this wasn't "real quickly" after all.

I can't agree that predestination verses out-weigh free will verses, but I'll let that go for a moment in order to point out the vessels of honor and dishoner.... for I've seen this being used in such manner before. I'm not sure how anyone can see this as some being created for salvation and others for destruction, for what potter will take pains to make a vessel only to show that he has power to dash it to pieces? It's simply not in the character of a Righteous God. The potter is used several times in the OT....each with a message.

Here, Paul is continuing his answer to the Jew by referring to the parable of the potter found in Jeremiah 18.

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

It's clear that the potter didn't discard the vessel. It's the same lump....he remade it.

The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words. Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels. And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it. Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,

O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel. At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.

God is saying he may justly dispose of nations, and of the Jews in particular, according to his infinite wisdom and according to His use. This has absolutely nothing to do with election or predestination, but it does, indeed, have something to do with free will. This is God's chastening to bring about repentance.