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Who is the true Vicar of Christ?

S

Solo

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Who is the true Vicar of Christ?

The Roman Catholic Pope or the Holy Spirit?


popebenedictxvi.jpg

As world attention focuses on new Pope Benedict XVI, it is important to note that the Vatican officially teaches that the Pope is the substitute for Christ Jesus. The words of the official pronouncement are:
  • "The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, 'is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful.'

    'For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise." [Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition (Washington, DC: US Catholic Conference, 1994, 1997) #882.]

    [Definition: "vicar" -- in the broadest sense means someone who is authorized to act as a substitute or agent for a superior / compare "vicarious" -- serving in the place of someone else; assuming the position, place, or office of another person]
The world again has a man in the position of "Vicar of Christ," so it is biblically imperative to examine the true office of the Vicar of Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ entrusted the universal care of souls into the safekeeping of the Divine Person of the Holy Spirit. Concerning this Third Person of the Trinity who was to be His substitute, the Lord promised that, "when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment" (John 16:8). The Holy Spirit convicts of sin as He makes the sinner realize his lost condition and convicts him of his need of Christ's righteousness. He it is who brings a soul dead in sin to life.

This miracle of grace is spoken of in Scripture as, "the exceeding greatness of His power to usward who believe, according to the working of His mighty power, which He wrought in Christ when He raised Him from the dead" (Ephesians 1:19).

The majesty, greatness and indescribable power of the true office of Vicar of Christ are such that a believer stands in awe of His divine Person. That any human being should lay claim to the office of Vicar of Christ seems totally absurd and blasphemous.

The True Vicar of Christ

Because there is a direct connection between the redemption of Christ and the ministry of the Holy Spirit, it is extremely dangerous to confuse the work of the Holy Spirit as Vicar of Christ with the position or work of any man.

As Christ Jesus had been the Master, Counselor and Guide to believers, He promised to send the Holy Spirit as His substitute so that He might abide with them for ever (John 14:16). In believers' lives, the Holy Spirit has full, immediate, and universal influence, as the Scripture so wonderfully teaches, "now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord" (II Corinthians 3:17-18).

The work of the Spirit is transforming; we are changed from one degree of glorious grace unto another, until by that same grace one day we will be perfected with Him in glory forever. How much therefore should Christians prize the full and complete ministry of the Holy Spirit!

In the face of these awesome truths concerning the role and ministry of the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ, it is horrendous to learn that the Vatican proclaims,
  • "The Pope enjoys, by divine institution, supreme, full, immediate, and universal power in the care of souls" (Catechism, paragraph 937).
Persuading men and women that Christ the Lord left a mortal man to be His vicar on earth attempts to gainsay the very purpose of Christ Jesus.

The History of the claim to be Vicar of Christ

This outlandish assertion came relatively late in the history of the Papacy. To begin with, the Bishop of Rome claimed to be the vicar of Caesar -- and his successors the rightful heirs to the Caesars. The city that had been the seat of power for the Roman Empire became the city for the Bishop of Rome to exercise his authority.

Gradually, other Bishops and national monarchs accepted him as vicar and successor to Caesar with the same supreme title of "Pontifex Maximus."

Next, the Bishops of Rome claimed to be "The vicar of the prince of the apostles"[1], that is, the vicar of Peter.[2] Thus, in the early fifth century, Bishop Innocent I (401-417 A.D.) insisted that Christ had delegated supreme power to Peter and made him the Bishop of Rome. Following this, he held that the Bishop of Rome as Peter's successor was entitled to exercise Peter's power and prerogatives. Boniface III, who became Bishop of Rome in 607, established himself as "Universal Bishop," thus claiming to be vicar and master of all other bishops.

It was not until the eighth century, however, that the particular title "Vicar of the Son of God"[3] was found in the fraudulent document called "The Donation of Constantine."[4] Although this notorious document was proven false in the early sixteenth century, the Bishops of Rome have used the title "Vicar of Christ" since the eighth century. This title has been the Pope's supreme claim to spiritual and temporal supremacy. The taste of divine power, with which the title resonates, has proven to be addictive. The "Vicar of Christ" is able to recognize no authority other than his own. He looks upon himself as Master of all, and boldly proclaims, "The First See is judged by no one."[5]

It is truly significant that Joseph Ratzinger was elected as the new Pope as Benedict XVI (April 2005). Before this, he headed up the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith [formerly known as the Office of the Inquisition] [6]. Archconservatives in the Church of Rome warmly welcomed him; however, he will not be acceptable to many American Catholics because of his hard-line stance.

popebenedictxvi2.jpg


This rigid position was seen clearly in the document that he issued on September 5, 2000 called, "Dominus Iesus."[7] In that document, he boldly decreed that the Roman Catholic Church is the only "instrument for the salvation of all humanity."[8]

Dogmatically, he also rules out evangelical churches from being considered as, "Churches in the proper sense", when he proclaimed, "the ecclesial communities which have not preserved the valid Episcopate [that is, rulership by Roman Catholic bishops] and the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic mystery [that is, partaking of Mass (the Lord's Supper) in the manner of Roman Catholics, including their teaching that the priest miraculously transforms the wine and bread into the actual blood and flesh of Jesus Christ], are not Churches in the proper sense."[9]

Rome's alleged office of Christ's Vicar on earth is so all embracing and complicated that Benedict XVI, as one man, cannot exercise "supreme, full, immediate, and universal power." Thus Joseph Ratzinger needs a vast hierarchy to command. The pyramid of power that constitutes his office of the "Vicar of Christ" consists of cardinals, patriarchs, major archbishops, metropolitans, coadjutor archbishops, diocesan bishops, coadjutor bishops, episcopal vicar, eparches, apostolic vicars, apostolic prefects, apostolic administrators and vicars general.[10]

Doctrine and Deeds

The counterfeit nature of the Pope's claim to be "the Vicar of Christ" is shown by his doctrine and deeds. The key role of the True Vicar of Christ is to glorify Christ, "He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you" (John 16:14). The sending of the Spirit was the glorifying of Christ. God the Father glorifies Christ Jesus in heaven, and the Spirit glorifies Him on earth. All the gifts and graces of the Holy Spirit are to glorify Christ.

The Lord Jesus Christ promised the Apostles, "when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth" (John 16:13).

God's truth is an indissoluble, balanced and harmonious whole. In the Bible we have "all truth", in this the Holy Spirit truly glorifies Jesus Christ. In stark contrast, the Pope claims to possess "infallible teaching authority." This neither glorifies Christ nor honors the Spirit of truth.[11] Also the Pope, as "the Vicar of Christ" teaches "rebirth" by baptism, which demeans the glory of Christ.[12] [See: "Is water baptism necessary for salvation?" and "Grace"]

By crucifixes, rosaries, and scapulars, the earthly Vicar purports to fortify men and women against the assaults of Satan. He also maintains that indulgences can shorten the sufferings of souls in purgatory. While presiding over substantially the richest financial institution in the world, he maintains and advocates vows of poverty. Even as thousands of souls are corrupted by unbridled filthiness, he defends the vows of celibacy for his priests. By autonomous proclamations, he releases men and women from their marriage vows in self-declared annulments.[13]

None of these deeds glorify Christ Jesus the Lord. The major enemy of Christ and His Gospel, however, is not materialism nor is it lust, but rather the spiritual pride and the apostasy of the very one who pretends to be His "Vicar". The first lie of Satan, "ye shall be as gods" (Genesis 3:5) reaches its full fruition in the Papal claim to be "Vicar of Christ". By this, the words of the Apostle Paul are literally fulfilled, "who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called Godshowing himself that he is God" (2 Thessalonians 2:4).

"Habemus papam" we have a Papa!

vatican-stpetersbasilica.jpg

Vatican, St. Peter's Basilica.
Photo courtesy of Bibleplaces


The waiting is finished. The senior cardinal-deacon appeared on a balcony overlooking St. Peter's Square and announced: "Habemus papam! we have a Papa!"[14] Catholics and the world are told that they now have a spiritual Papa to look after them.

Christ Jesus constantly spoke about His Father, the word "Father" was seventy times on His lips to show true believers that they have a Father, a Father in Heaven - "my Father, and your Father my God, and your God" (John 20:17). Distinctively true believers have an Abba Father, in the words of the Apostle, "for ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father" (Romans 8:15).

It is precisely because believers have an Abba Father that they are commanded not to call any man "Father" in the spiritual sense. Thus the Lord's command, "call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven" (Matthew 23:9). The Lord Christ Jesus prayed to the only "Holy Father" that exists, "Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are" (John 17:11). The Lord used His usual appellation "Father," but prefixed it with the word "Holy". He wanted to emphasize the absolute perfection of the Father's nature.

So intimate and worshipful is this, that in a spiritual sense a true believer will only use the words "The Holy Father" of God alone! The Roman Pontiff not only takes to himself the office of "Vicar of Christ" but also the very title of the Godhead, "The Holy Father". We must therefore ask the question that Apostle John asks, "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son" (I John 2:22). In assuming these titles to himself, the Pope shows that he truly is "a vicar of Christ" in the biblical sense of the Antichrist!

Conclusion and Personal Response

Today, some compromised and eclectic "Evangelicals" stop their ears and close their eyes to the true Vicar of Christ and mindlessly agree with the festivities that accompanied the white smoke that arose from the Vatican. Ignored once again are the questions: Whom do we honor? Whom do we fear? Is it God or man? As the world and false Evangelicals bow in admiration to the new Pontiff, we might well take a moment to pause and consider where we personally stand as believers in the One Lord Christ Jesus and the One Holy Spirit.

Those who hold the office of Pope claim to mediate between God and man and to hold the keys of heaven and hell. Most appallingly the Pope takes to himself the office of "Vicar of Christ" adding even the attribute of infallibility to his position,[15] demanding that "a religious respect of intellect and will be paid to his teaching." [16] The Papal arrogance tallies well with the Scripture's prediction for such claims, "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High" (Isaiah 14:14).

The words inscribed in the Pope's official miter are "Vicarius Filii Dei", Latin for "Vicar of the Son of God". Since there can be but one Vicar of Christ who is infinite, supreme, omnipotent, and all sufficient, the earthly pretender can be none other than a self-energized apostate system which will eventually be judged and utterly condemned by the Lord.

It is the will of God that every true believer "should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 3). Those of us who cling to Christ and His Word alone, and who are saved before the all-Holy God by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, with all glory and praise to God alone must give voice to our profession of faith. ENDNOTES AVAILABLE AT http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/ ... hrist.html

Article Retrieved From http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/ ... hrist.html
 
Solo said:
As world attention focuses on new Pope Benedict XVI, it is important to note that the Vatican officially teaches that the Pope is the substitute for Christ Jesus. The words of the official pronouncement are:
  • "The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, 'is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful.'

    'For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise." [Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition (Washington, DC: US Catholic Conference, 1994, 1997) #882.]

    [Definition: "vicar" -- in the broadest sense means someone who is authorized to act as a substitute or agent for a superior / compare "vicarious" -- serving in the place of someone else; assuming the position, place, or office of another person]
As has been pointed out, there is a huge difference between serving as a substitute and serving as an agent.

Here is a chance for those who are Catholics to clarify (not that such efforts have not been made in the past) - do you believe the Pope serves as a substitute and, if so, in what sense or senses? Or do you believe that he serves as an agent, and if so, in what sense or senses?

I think that we need to hear from Catholics regarding what they believe. Hearing from those who claim to speak for Catholics is not the best way to approach this, since those people may intentionally or otherwise not fairly represent what Catholics actually believe.
 
Drew said:
].

Here is a chance for those who are Catholics to clarify (not that such efforts have not been made in the past) - do you believe the Pope serves as a substitute and, if so, in what sense or senses? Or do you believe that he serves as an agent, and if so, in what sense or senses?

Nope we do not believe that the Pope is a sustitute for Christ. Christ works through his Church who are as you term it his agents. The Holy Spirit guides those who are given to us as leaders to maintain the teachings of Christ just as they were delivered to the Apostles. The Pope cannot save us. He did not die for our sins and is not the source of grace. To make such claims as Mr. Solo does is simply bearing false witness. But of course he will not admit it because he cannot sin according to his interpretation of some passages in John. But of course John says anyone who says he is without sin is a liar. :o Oh well.

Mr. Solo will come on here of course and tell you that I am wrong about Catholicism. I've been Catholic for 48 years and have never believed or heard anyone say that the Pope is a substitute for Christ.
 
As has been pointed out, there is a huge difference between serving as a substitute and serving as an agent.

One of many no doubt, like my local Pastors. Good point, my local pastors can be used to be as much an agent of God as the Pope! That's why I see revival and love for God in many of the Protestant Churches around my area. The Pope is only an agent. I'm glad someone finally realized that.

~Josh
 
cybershark5886 said:
One of many no doubt, like my local Pastors. Good point, my local pastors can be used to be as much an agent of God as the Pope! That's why I see revival and love for God in many of the Protestant Churches around my area. The Pope is only an agent. I'm glad someone finally realized that.

~Josh

It no new revelation.
Catholicism does not say the Pope is the only agent used by God. Such a claim would be ridiculous and unbiblical. Anyone who is a Christian and is trying to serve Christ to the best of his knowledge and ability is an agent. But we do not have equal levels of agency and authority. That is a simple fact.
 
thessalonian said:
It no new revelation.
Catholicism does not say the Pope is the only agent used by God. Such a claim would be ridiculous and unbiblical. Anyone who is a Christian and is trying to serve Christ to the best of his knowledge and ability is an agent. But we do not have equal levels of agency and authority. That is a simple fact.

And what level of hierarchy/authority do you propose that the Pope has over Protestant Churches? Remember Paul always encouraged the Local Churches to have their own local leadership elders and overseers. Paul never forced one city's ekklesia to be accountable for another although he did encourage them to bear one another's burdens and even give offerings for the poor Jews in Jerusalem. The Apostles seemed to be the only mediators, but the Apostleship office has by all appearances disppeared, in my mind.

~Josh
 
What does the Bible say about the pope / papacy?

Question: "What does the Bible say about the pope / papacy?"

Answer: The Roman Catholic Church’s teaching about the Pope (“pope†means “fatherâ€Â) is built upon and involves the following Roman Catholic teachings:
  • 1) Christ made Peter the leader of the apostles and of the church (Matthew 16:18-19). In giving Peter the “keys of the kingdom,†Christ not only made him leader, but also made him infallible when he acted or spoke as Christ’s representative on earth (speaking from the seat of authority, or “ex cathedraâ€Â). This ability to act on behalf of the church in an infallible way when speaking “ex cathedra†was passed on to Peter’s successors, thus giving the Church an infallible guide on earth. The purpose of the papacy is to lead the Church unerringly.

    2) Peter later became the first Bishop of Rome. As Bishop of Rome, he exercised authority over all other bishops and church leaders. The teaching that the Bishop of Rome is above all other bishops in authority is referred to as the “primacy†of the Roman Bishop.

    3) Peter passed on his apostolic authority to the next Bishop of Rome, along with the other apostles who passed on their apostolic authority to the bishops that they ordained. These new bishops, in turn, passed on that apostolic authority to those bishops that they later ordained, and so on. This “passing on of apostolic authority†is referred to as “apostolic succession.â€Â

    4) Based upon the Roman Catholic claim of an unbroken chain of Roman bishops, they teach that the Roman Catholic Church is the true church, and that all churches that do not accept the primacy of the Pope have broken away from them, the original and one true church.
Having briefly reviewed some of the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church concerning the papacy, the question is whether those teachings are in agreement with Scripture. The Roman Catholic Church sees the Papacy and the infallible teaching authority of “mother Church†as being necessary to guide the Church, and use that as logical reasoning for God’s provision of it. But in examining Scripture, you find the following:
  • 1) While Peter was central in the early spread of the gospel (part of the meaning behind Matthew 16:18-19), the teaching of Scripture, taken in context, nowhere declares that he was in authority over the other apostles or over the Church (see Acts 15:1-23; Galatians 2:1-14; 1 Peter 5:1-5). Nor is it ever taught that the Bishop of Rome was to have primacy over the Church. Rather, there is only one reference in Scripture of Peter writing from “Babylon,†a name sometimes applied to Rome, found in 1 Peter 5:13. Primarily upon this, and the historical rise of the influence of the Bishop of Rome (due to the support of Constantine and the Roman emperors who followed him), comes the Roman Catholic Church teaching of the primacy of the Bishop of Rome. However, Scripture shows that Peter’s authority was shared by the other apostles (Ephesians 2:19-20), and that the “loosing and binding†authority attributed to him was likewise shared by the local churches, not just their church leaders (see Matthew 18:15-19; 1 Corinthians 5:1-13; 2 Corinthians 13:10; Titus 2:15; 3:10-11).

    2) Nowhere does Scripture state that in order to keep the church from error, the authority of the apostles was passed on to those they ordained (apostolic succession). Apostolic succession is “read into†those verses that the Roman Catholic Church uses to support this doctrine (2 Timothy 2:2; 4:2-5; Titus 1:5; 2:1; 2:15; 1 Timothy 5:19-22). What Scripture DOES teach is that false teachings would arise even from among church leaders and that Christians were to compare the teachings of these later church leaders with Scripture, which alone is cited in the Bible as infallible. The Bible does not teach that the apostles were infallible, apart from what was written by them and incorporated into Scripture. Paul, in talking to the church leaders in the large city of Ephesus, makes note of coming false teachers, and to fight against such error does NOT commend them to “the apostles and those who would carry on their authority,†but rather he commends them to “God and to the word of His grace...†(Acts 20:28-32).

    Again, the Bible teaches that it is Scripture that is to be used as measuring stick to determine truth from error. In Galatians 1:8-9, Paul states that it is not WHO teaches but WHAT is being taught that is to be used to determine truth from error. While the Roman Catholic Church continues to pronounce a curse to hell “anathema†upon those who would reject the authority of the Pope, Scripture reserves that curse for those who would teach a different gospel (Galatians 1:8-9).

    3) While the Roman Catholic Church sees apostolic succession as logically necessary in order for God to unerringly guide the Church, Scripture states that God has provided for His church through:[list:f5132]
    (a) Infallible Scripture, (Acts 20:32; 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Matthew 5:18; John 10:35; Acts 17:10-12; Isaiah 8:20; 40:8; etc.) Note: Peter speaks of Paul’s writings in the same category as other Scripture (2 Peter 3:16),

    (b) Christ’s unending high-priesthood in heaven (Hebrews 7:22-28),

    (c) The provision of the Holy Spirit who guided the apostles into truth after Christ’s death (John 16:12-14), who gifts believers for the work of the ministry, including teaching (Romans 12:3-8; Ephesians 4:11-16), and who uses the written word as His chief tool (Hebrews 4:12; Ephesians 6:17).
[/list:u:f5132]While there have been good (humanly speaking) and moral men who have served as Pope of the Roman Catholic Church, including Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI, the Roman Catholic Church teaching about the office of the Pope should be rejected because it is not “in continuity†with the teachings of the original church, that related to us in the New Testament. This comparison of any church’s teaching is essential, lest we miss the New Testament’s teaching concerning the gospel, and not only miss eternal life in heaven ourselves, but unwittingly lead others down the wrong path (Galatians 1:8-9).

Recommended Resource: The Gospel According to Rome: Comparing Bible pope, Bible papacy and The Word of God by James McCarthy.

Retrieved from http://www.gotquestions.org/pope-papacy.html
 
Is the Pope the Vicar of Christ?

Question: "Is the Pope the Vicar of Christ?"

Answer: The term "vicar" comes from the Latin word vicarius, which means "instead of." In the Catholic Church, the vicar is the representative of a higher ranking official, with all of the same authority and power that that official has. In calling the Pope the "Vicar of Christ," this implies that he has the same power and authority that Christ had over the Church. The title is derived from Jesus' words in John 21:16-17 to Peter, "Feed my lambs . . . Take care of my sheep." This, according to Catholic reasoning, defines Peter as the Prince of the Apostles, the first Pope, and fulfills the words of Jesus in Matthew 16:18-19 (calling Peter the rock upon which Jesus will build His church).

For a better understanding of whether or not it is biblical to consider that a mere man is the representative of Christ, we turn to the pages of Scripture to find out what it says about Jesus' role in our lives, when He walked the earth and what He continues to do right now. The letter to the Hebrews draws the comparison between Jesus and the high priest Melchizedek (Genesis chapter 14), and contrasts this with the old Levitical priesthood. The question posed is, if perfection could be obtained by following the law, why was another priest to come (Hebrews 7:11)?

The writer says, “For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of power of an indestructible life. For it is declared ‘You are a high priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.’ The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God†(Hebrews 7:14-19).

This makes Jesus superior to the priests, and most importantly, the high priests. This is the key text: “Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. Therefore, He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them†(Hebrews 7:23-25).

This means that Jesus is our high priest forever. Since He is "holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, [and] exalted above the heavens" (Hebrews 7:26), He is unlike other priests in that He "does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for His own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once and for all when He offered Himself" (Hebrews 7:27). Men are appointed by the Law, and men are weak. But the Son was appointed by the New Covenant, and He has been made perfect forever (Hebrews 7:28). The ministry of Jesus is superior to the old, and it is founded on better promises (Hebrews 8:6).

The Bible says of Jesus that there is no other name by which men can be saved (Acts 4:12). There is only one mediator between God and men, and that is Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5). We can now see that there is no Biblical foundation for claiming to be a representative of Christ on earth. No man could do what Christ has done, or what Christ is now doing on behalf of humankind. But the title of vicar also carries with it another implication: the bearer has the same jurisdictional power of the official he represents. In Matthew 16:18, Jesus Christ is the one who says He will build His church, He never delegates this power. By claiming the title of Vicar of Christ, the reigning pope is, in fact, promising to do what Christ promised.

Jesus does indeed predict a “vicar†in the sense of a “replacement†for His physical presence here on earth. However, this “vicar of Christ†is not a priest, high priest, bishop, or pope. The only Biblical “vicar of Christ†is the Holy Spirit. John 14:26 declares, “But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.†John 14:16-18 proclaims, “And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever  the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you know Him, for He lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.†The Holy Spirit is Christ’s “replacement†on the earth. The Holy Spirit is our Counselor, Teacher (John 14:26), and guide into all truth (John 16:13).

In claiming that the pope is the “vicar of Christ,†the Catholic church rejects the sufficiency and supremacy of Christ’s priesthood, and grants to the pope roles that Christ Himself declared would belong to the Holy Spirit. It is therefore blasphemy to ascribe to the Pope the title of “vicar of Christ.â€Â

Recommended Resource: The Gospel According to Rome: Comparing Bible pope, Bible papacy and The Word of God by James McCarthy.

Retrieved from http://www.gotquestions.org/vicar-of-Christ.html
 
This is the verse in which the Catholics and Protestants divide (Matt 16:18-19) The Greek emphasizes the word THIS which points to Peter's confession, Rather than putting the church on the back of Peter because Peter will misstep a few time and will later even be rebuked by the Apostle Paul for living kind of Luke warm like when he's with Jews he lives one way and when he's with Gentiles he lived another way. So Jesus was saying to Peter that what he (Peter) said was the truth on which he (Jesus) will build his church. Ok Peter in the Greek means Petros and Petros means stone or bedrock, A foundation where you build something. So Jesus was saying "Peter your confession was right on, and upon that BEDROCK of that confession, I will build my church and Hades gates will not prevail against it. Jesus didn't make peter the first Pope and he's not saying that Peter is the foundation of his church, But Peter's confession is. Peter never believed he was the Rock on which Jesus built his church. There is not one word that Peter ever spoke or the Apostles ever spoke that would lead us to believe that Peter was supreme among the Apostles. If any body was the leader of the early church it would have been the Apostle James in Acts 15 in particular, because when the church is in council, making some important decisions concerning relations between the Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians, It's James who arises and says that is is good to us and to the Holy Spirit, It;sa to James that the Apostle Paul comes with the issue wanting to speak to him, James the Lords brother according to the flesh. I would find it very significant if I were weighing this right now in my thoughts to realize that Peter never made those claims, no one in the scripture ever made those claims. And we see the evidence for what Matt 16 is really saying. In fact Peter taught quite the opposite, he never taught that he was the foundation of the church. In Acts 4:10-12 Peter says "Let it be known to you, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by this name this man stands before you here in good health, He is the Stone which was rejected by you builders, but which became the very cornerstone and Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no their name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. Peter had the opportunity to tell us what the cornerstone of faith is, what's the Bedrock of faith? What's the church built upon and he did not say "I AM THE CORNERSTONE" He said Jesus Christ is! Later in 1peter:2 is another opportunity for Peter to state, if it was a fact that Jesus made Peter the rock on which he was building the church, but Peter points away from his self wisely and points to Jesus Christ. In 1peter 2:4-8 And coming to him as a living stone, rejected by men but choice and precious in the sight of God, you also as living stones are being built us as a spiritual house for a Holy Priesthood to offer sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For this is contained in the scriptures, Behold I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious cornerstone and he who believes in HIM shall not be disappointed. So who is the Stone which must be believed in? PETER?? No it's JESUS. The stone that is a cornerstone, the stone of salvation is none other than JESUS CHRIST! The Bedrock on which the church is founded is none other than JESUS! The testimony that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the Living God, that "PETRA" that Bedrock statement, That's what the church is built upon. The NT clearly teaches that the rock on which the church was built on was NOT Peter but it was JESUS! :wink:
 
thessalonian said:
Sisterc,

I've answered the same old loaves of Christmass fruitcake here.

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=28996

Read the thread EDITED.
Get an edited huh? Well I think you need to open your EYES and see the truth for what it really is, the truth that is staring you right in your edited , les it comes up and bites you edited :smt021

Edits made by Atonement
 
Does anyone know iff the pope is born again in the scriptural sense(what he said too nicodemus)?
 
Arjy said:
Does anyone know iff the pope is born again in the scriptural sense(what he said too nicodemus)?
Well if he has truly put his faith and trust in Jesus Christ as his saviour, than why wouldn't he tell people that it's not ok to put their trust in him as the Pope, that he's just a man! And it is not ok for people to bow down to him and kiss his ring. I would seriously consider this before answering this question! :-?
 
thessalonian said:
Nope we do not believe that the Pope is a sustitute for Christ. Christ works through his Church who are as you term it his agents. The Holy Spirit guides those who are given to us as leaders to maintain the teachings of Christ just as they were delivered to the Apostles. The Pope cannot save us. He did not die for our sins and is not the source of grace. To make such claims as Mr. Solo does is simply bearing false witness. But of course he will not admit it because he cannot sin according to his interpretation of some passages in John. But of course John says anyone who says he is without sin is a liar. :o Oh well.

Mr. Solo will come on here of course and tell you that I am wrong about Catholicism. I've been Catholic for 48 years and have never believed or heard anyone say that the Pope is a substitute for Christ.
I guess that would go for Mary, too then. :wink:
 
thessalonian said:
Catholicism does not say the Pope is the only agent used by God. Such a claim would be ridiculous and unbiblical. Anyone who is a Christian and is trying to serve Christ to the best of his knowledge and ability is an agent. But we do not have equal levels of agency and authority. That is a simple fact.
But the pope's authority and what he says supposedly comes right from God, right? He is known as the #1 human closest to God. :smt078 And the pope is not wrong in that what he says goes. No errors...unlike their view of the bible; it contains errors. :smt078 :smt078
He's the "head" of the church. :smt100
Jesus is the head of the church I attend. :D :angel:
 
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