Bible Study Why Christmas?

[starbyfar]

The biblical feasts in the bible, the feast of Passover, Unleavened Bread, Firstfruits, the feast of Pentecost, the feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah), the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), and the feast of Tabernacles (Succoth) present a beautiful picture of the Messiah's first and second coming. They are outlined in Leviticus how to celebrate them.

Although mainly Jews celebrate them, I celebrate them because when we look at the spring festivals, we can look back at the first century and see how the prophetic elements of those festivals were fulfilled. We can see how the plan of God was carried out in perfection. Each of the biblical Jewish holidays teaches us about our wonderful relationship with God. His whole redemption story is portrayed for us in these festivals. Passover pictures salvation or deliverance from Egypt (flesh or sin). Unleavened Bread shows us that God saved us in order that we may be holy and set apart for Him by putting off the old sin nature. Firstfruits teaches us the purpose of salvation: fruitfulness in the Kingdom of God (John 15:1-5) and putting on the new man, the nature of God (Eph. 4:24). The Feast of Weeks instructs us further concerning the kind of fruit we must bear spiritual fruit (Gal. 5:22-23) through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Now my question. Instead of celebrating these holidays that are biblical and already cleary celebrate Christs birth/life/resurrection... why do we choose to celebrate man made holidays like Christmas and Easter and Halloween? Is it because of tradition? Because we like the gifts candy and easter eggs?

Keep in mind i'm not judging or condeming anyone for their choice because I understand Romans 14 speaks very clearly on not judging others according to what sabbath or festivals they keep or which foods they eat.

 

[Admiral]

why do we choose to celebrate man made holidays like Christmas and Easter and Halloween? Is it because of tradition? Because we like the gifts candy and easter eggs?

I don't think so...

And my answer is going to be limited to Christmas and Easter, as I believe that a catholic will have to answer for Halloween. [I believe that is more in celebration of satan/lucifer than Christ.]

Your question involved the passover and other biblical holiday established in the Torah. And these we do not celebrate as they have been fulfilled in Christ. If you look carefully, you will find that Christ has fulfill the ritual of the passover, and the feast of the unleaven bread, et al.

And while Christians everywhere feel the need to celebrate Christ's birth [a birthday celebration], I agree that Christmas has been perverted with commercialism and distorted meanings....

But that does not deter the Christian from decerning the true meaning of Christmas, nor robbing himself of the blessing of this season and especially the blessing of others at this time of year.

The reason that Christmas and Easter are celebrated is because Christ is especially there when we turn our attention to Him. It is the time when Christians can be reminded of "the reason for the season" and why He took to Himself the necessity of being human...even a human baby....It is the decernment of all the little reasons [that turn into big ones] why Jesus care for those such as you and I and how this is posible.

It is the time of year when we can focus on Christ's mission ...to redeem mankind...to hang an ignoble death ...a death that we deserve, that we might live, and live abundantly for Christ.

It is not Santa Claus, nor chick and easter eggs that make the season...It is Christ, and Christ alone that the season exists...It is His gift to us to decern what He has done for us, and to pass this gift onto others.

That is the reason for the season....

 

[Imagican]

When we consider that the same people that created 'All Saints Day' created Christmas and Easter, what possible reason would one believe that the 'purpose' is any different?

Why would one be created 'by and for satan' yet the others, created by the 'same' people, be 'different'? We have no idea of the 'date' of Christ's birth. So, is there really ANY reason to believe that this date and celebration have ANYTHING to do with the 'will' of God? I don't think so.

And then if one does but a cursory investigation into the history behind 'Christmas', Christs Mass, we find that the 'main' reason that it was created was to 'replace' a previous pagan ritual that those that altered it realized would be all but impossible to eliminate the pagan and therefore simply 'replaced' the name of it. The traditions and ritual are almost identical to the pagan holiday that Christmas replaced. A 'true' honoring of Christ? Placing His name on a 'pagan' tradition? Hard to swallow.

And when one does a minute bit of research into Easter, the 'purpose' is found to be almost identical to that of Christmas. The date is not as fallacious, but the pagan roots are the same.

 

[Admiral]

And then if one does but a cursory investigation into the history behind 'Christmas', Christs Mass, we find that the 'main' reason that it was created was to 'replace' a previous pagan ritual that those that altered it realized would be all but impossible to eliminate the pagan and therefore simply 'replaced' the name of it. The traditions and ritual are almost identical to the pagan holiday that Christmas replaced. A 'true' honoring of Christ? Placing His name on a 'pagan' tradition? Hard to swallow.
.

I will not deny that pagan roots are what brought about the current holidays...I will deny that pagan rituals are currently in place.

Concider the spirit of the Christmas season...There is your hub-bub of activity finding gifts...There is the rush and the preparations to make the season brighter....but there is more mercy, more kindness, more understanding than any other time of the year....There is a difference at that time of year that I will not attribute to some pagan ritual...It reaccures EVERY season. And while satan may have his hand in obscuring the reason for the season, Jesus is still that reason if we seek Him....

And isn't that the purpose of Christians everywhere, to seek Jesus?

 

[ChristineES]

I watched a show over the Christmas season, and most of the traditions of Christmas (the Yule, for instance) existed before Christ was born. It seems that it is more of a Pagan holiday with a few Christian elements added (such as the Nativity and such).
That said, people who nowadays celebrate Christmas are not Pagans and I personally try to keep the Christian elements on the forefront.

 

[Georges]

The Festivals that Star has presented are representive of Christ's First and Second Comings.....so Christ hasn't fulfilled the Torah or Tanach yet.....

The Seven Feast Days of the Lord are as follows:

Passover (Pasach), Unleavened Bread (Hag HaMotzah). and First Fruits (Bikkurim). These were fulfilled in the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of the Messiah and should be celebrated as a remembrance of the same.

Pentecost (Shavout) was fulfilled with the descent of the Holy Spirit.

Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah), Atonement (Yom Kippur), and Tabernacles (Sukkot) will be fulfilled at Christ's second coming.

The creation of Jesus' birth at Dec 25 and his resurrection on Easter Sunday are a Satanic smokescreen to keep the focus off the Feast Day timeline and the second coming of Christ.

I mean seriously, how else can you explain why Christ's birth, as being given the date of the birthday of Mithros (the main competitor of Christianity in the Roman Empire) as anything but satanic? It takes the focus off Judaism and the date that Christ was most likely born Obviously Christ birthday would be on a major Jewish Festival day....hint (Sukkot).

Not to mention the day we celebrate the Resurrection (Easter Sunday) of Jesus...that's two pagan whammy's on the same day. Shoot, we even have given a Pagan Goddess' name to celebrate the resurrection of our Lord......Hello, slap in the face of Christ. How insane is it that we take the known day of Christ's resurrection (Nissan 17, every year since it happened) on the Jewish calendar and give it a date straight out of the OCCULT......that's right.....

Resurrection Day is not celebrated on Nissan 17 as it should be....yes, even if it falls on Tuesday. That would be too Jewish...Instead let's celebrate it on the First Sunday, after the First Full Moon, after the Spring Equinox.....

How insane is that....? But that's OK, we've won the pagans over by replacing their holidays with ours..... :multi:

Trouble is by giving up the recognition and yearly celebration (yes I mean Christian's) of the 7 Festival days, we take our eyes off the significance of Bible prophecy concerning the First and Second comings of Messiah.

 

[Admiral]

A Yule log is a large log which is burned in the hearth as a part of traditional Yule or Christmas celebrations in some cultures.

In Northern Europe, winter festivities were once considered to be a Feast of the Dead, complete with ceremonies full of spirits, devils, and the haunting presence of the Norse god, Odin, and his night riders. One particularly durable Solstice festival was "Jol" (also known as "Jule" and pronounced "Yule"), a feast celebrated throughout Northern Europe and particularly in Scandinavia to honor Jolnir, another name for Odin. Since Odin was the god of intoxicating drink and ecstasy, as well as the god of death, Yule customs varied greatly from region to region. Odin's sacrificial beer became the specially blessed Christmas ale mentioned in medieval lore, and fresh food and drink were left on tables after Christmas feasts to feed the roaming Yuletide ghosts. Even the bonfires of former ancient times survived in the tradition of the Yule Log, perhaps the most universal of all Christmas symbols.

The origins of the Yule Log can be traced back to the Midwinter festivals in which the Norsemen indulged...nights filled with feasting, "drinking Yule" and watching the fire leap around the log burning in the home hearth. The ceremonies and beliefs associated with the Yule Log's sacred origins are closely linked to representations of health, fruitfulness and productivity. In England, the Yule was cut and dragged home by oxen or horses as the people walked alongside and sang merry songs. It was often decorated with evergreens and sometimes sprinkled with grain or cider before it was finally set alight.

Ok, guys and gals,....How many of you are celebrating the Christmas season like it is described above? Do you know of neighbors who do like wise?

Then how can you say that the Christmas season NOW is anything like the it was then????

Just because the origions are pagan doesn't mean that Christ has converted the season! Let's face some facts, even Christ's heritage has some prostitutes and some nasty people for sires and dames....But that doesn't mean that He still is not the Son of God...

Put some perspective in your thinking...Christ has conquered the pagan season...[/quote]

 

[Georges]

A Yule log is a large log which is burned in the hearth as a part of traditional Yule or Christmas celebrations in some cultures.

In Northern Europe, winter festivities were once considered to be a Feast of the Dead, complete with ceremonies full of spirits, devils, and the haunting presence of the Norse god, Odin, and his night riders. One particularly durable Solstice festival was "Jol" (also known as "Jule" and pronounced "Yule"), a feast celebrated throughout Northern Europe and particularly in Scandinavia to honor Jolnir, another name for Odin. Since Odin was the god of intoxicating drink and ecstasy, as well as the god of death, Yule customs varied greatly from region to region. Odin's sacrificial beer became the specially blessed Christmas ale mentioned in medieval lore, and fresh food and drink were left on tables after Christmas feasts to feed the roaming Yuletide ghosts. Even the bonfires of former ancient times survived in the tradition of the Yule Log, perhaps the most universal of all Christmas symbols.

The origins of the Yule Log can be traced back to the Midwinter festivals in which the Norsemen indulged...nights filled with feasting, "drinking Yule" and watching the fire leap around the log burning in the home hearth. The ceremonies and beliefs associated with the Yule Log's sacred origins are closely linked to representations of health, fruitfulness and productivity. In England, the Yule was cut and dragged home by oxen or horses as the people walked alongside and sang merry songs. It was often decorated with evergreens and sometimes sprinkled with grain or cider before it was finally set alight.

Ok, guys and gals,....How many of you are celebrating the Christmas season like it is described above? Do you know of neighbors who do like wise?

Then how can you say that the Christmas season NOW is anything like the it was then????

Just because the origions are pagan doesn't mean that Christ has converted the season! Let's face some facts, even Christ's heritage has some prostitutes and some nasty people for sires and dames....But that doesn't mean that He still is not the Son of God...

Put some perspective in your thinking...Christ has conquered the pagan season...

[/quote]

See the above post....Christmas, Easter, and yes even Sunday take the eyes off the Jewish perspective of the Messianic Kingdom, and the 1st and 2nd comings of Christ.

With all due respect Admiral, your last paragraph is exactly why the stance my previous post was written....It's like removing Independence Day (July 4th) and celebrating it instead on Nov 11.

Why would someone do that? The only reason is to take the focus off of something....That exact thing happened back in history past.....Constantine and the boys couldn't have a Jewish Messiah could they?...They had to make him as much a Gentile as possible...So they gave him a Gentile birthday and resurrection day....and who would know better? The Gentile Christian population of the dark ages?

Independence Day is July 4th and should be celebrated July 4th, not Nov 11.
Jesus' birth should be observed during Sukkot (Late Sept - Oct) and not on Dec 25. However, his conception should be observed on Hanukkah.
Jesus' resurrection should be observed on Nisan 17 every year....This year the proper resurrection day Nisan 17 (Hebrew calendar) will be Sat April 15, 2006.

 

[Admiral]

See the above post....Christmas, Easter, and yes even Sunday take the eyes off the Jewish perspective of the Messianic Kingdom, and the 1st and 2nd comings of Christ.

Sorry, George, but I don't see that...If anything, Christmas season brings mankind closer to one another...

[quote:5ad2b]With all due respect Admiral, your last paragraph is exactly why the stance my previous post was written....It's like removing Independence Day (July 4th) and celebrating it instead on Nov 11.

I guess I don't understand why this is a big deal with you, George...It's not like we can consistantly pinpoint exact day that Christ was born......

Why would someone do that? The only reason is to take the focus off of something....That exact thing happened back in history past.....Constantine and the boys couldn't have a Jewish Messiah could they?...They had to make him as much a Gentile as possible...So they gave him a Gentile birthday and resurrection day....and who would know better? The Gentile Christian population of the dark ages?

So you are trying to keep Jesus ....Jewish? I guess I am at a loss here as to why we NEED the EXACT date of Jesus' birthday to celebrate it...And since most Xians believe that God is in control, then why did He allow the birthdate to be celebrated and supplant pagan holidays..?

Independence Day is July 4th and should be celebrated July 4th, not Nov 11.
Jesus' birth should be observed during Sukkot (Late Sept - Oct) and not on Dec 25. However, his conception should be observed on Hanukkah.
Jesus' resurrection should be observed on Nisan 17 every year....This year the proper resurrection day Nisan 17 (Hebrew calendar) will be Sat April 15, 2006.

[/quote:5ad2b]

My cousin is born Dec 25th....Growing up, she got presents only once a year...Everyone else got them twice a year...She complained about it, and her family decided to make her birthdate June 25. She now is like everyone else....I guess I don't see your point. But I do see that if you wish, you could celebrate the birth and death of Jesus at another time....

 

[Georges]

See the above post....Christmas, Easter, and yes even Sunday take the eyes off the Jewish perspective of the Messianic Kingdom, and the 1st and 2nd comings of Christ.

Sorry, George, but I don't see that...If anything, Christmas season brings mankind closer to one another...

That's ok Admiral....why don't we bring everybody closer on the proper day?

[quote:9c7d5]With all due respect Admiral, your last paragraph is exactly why the stance my previous post was written....It's like removing Independence Day (July 4th) and celebrating it instead on Nov 11.

I guess I don't understand why this is a big deal with you, George...It's not like we can consistantly pinpoint exact day that Christ was born......

This is a big deal to me because people are really missing out on the important meaning of the Jewish festival days and their relation to the 1st and 2nd comings....Admiral...we can with a great deal of accuracy determine the date of Christ's birth....here is a website that break down the event as happening during the festival of Sukkot...http://www.hatikva.org/articles/birth-of-yeshua-at-sukkot.html.

[quote:9c7d5]Why would someone do that? The only reason is to take the focus off of something....That exact thing happened back in history past.....Constantine and the boys couldn't have a Jewish Messiah could they?...They had to make him as much a Gentile as possible...So they gave him a Gentile birthday and resurrection day....and who would know better? The Gentile Christian population of the dark ages?

So you are trying to keep Jesus ....Jewish? I guess I am at a loss here as to why we NEED the EXACT date of Jesus' birthday to celebrate it...And since most Xians believe that God is in control, then why did He allow the birthdate to be celebrated and supplant pagan holidays..?

Good questions.....Yes, I am trying to keep Jesus Jewish...he was. Again the focus of Jesus' Birth, and when it should be observed, concerns the idea that, it, as well as many other significant historical (Jewish history) events occurred on major Jewish Feast days. God shows the significnce of these dates to bring across his point of patterns. Jesus' birth and death occured on Jewish Feast days. Jesus' second coming will occur also on these Feast days. These same Jewish Feast days have been celebrated since the time of Moses and are still observed today. That is why it is important to keep Jesus' birth Jewish....in recognition of his expected second coming (during a future Feast day). Admiral, God is in control....that is why he completes his purpose in Jewish history on the Feast days....Chirst's 1st coming occured during the Spring Feast days of Passover, Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, and Pentecost. His 2nd coming during the Fall Feast days of Trumpets, Atonement, and Tabernacles.....His birth has to do with prophecy future...

Independence Day is July 4th and should be celebrated July 4th, not Nov 11.
Jesus' birth should be observed during Sukkot (Late Sept - Oct) and not on Dec 25. However, his conception should be observed on Hanukkah.
Jesus' resurrection should be observed on Nisan 17 every year....This year the proper resurrection day Nisan 17 (Hebrew calendar) will be Sat April 15, 2006.

[/quote:9c7d5]

My cousin is born Dec 25th....Growing up, she got presents only once a year...Everyone else got them twice a year...She complained about it, and her family decided to make her birthdate June 25. She now is like everyone else....I guess I don't see your point.

Sorry about that, I thought it was very clear....the point, let's celebrate the event on the date it occured and not a date picked out of the hat.

But I do see that if you wish, you could celebrate the birth and death of Jesus at another time....

Just trying to get folks to realize, there is a better candidate for Christ's birth than Dec 25.....

[/quote:9c7d5]

me in red....

 

[AVBunyan]

Why Christmas? - because people like pagan Babylonian/Roman Catholic holidays.

 

[Admiral]

Why Christmas? - because people like pagan Babylonian/Roman Catholic holidays.

But what part of Christmas is currently pagan besides the date? We traditionally give gifts to each other, like the wise men of old. Granted, Christmas is more secular/commericalised, but the holiday is definately more Christain than pagen... Lights on your tree? Jesus, the light of the world, a light on the top of the xmas tree?The star of Bethlehem... Even St. Nick is more Christian than pagan...

And as for pinpointing Jesus' birthdate... it's been tried, and there is no consenses among scholars....So....when was Christ born? No one knows, at least, no one on earth.....

 

[starbyfar]

I will not deny that pagan roots are what brought about the current holidays...I will deny that pagan rituals are currently in place.

I don't believe Christmas brings mankind closer. Have you seen the way people fight over items in department stores? Pure selfishness at its best. Tis' the season of giving and providing for your own.

Christmas/Easter just feel wrong to me. I feel like if Christ wanted us to celebrate his birthday/ressurection on these dates in the manner that we do, he would've said so in the Word.. And besides, whats even more messed up is how we do it. Statistically, tithing goes down dramatically during the holidays because people are busy buying up junk for eachother. Now thats what I call celebrating the love of Christ. For me, its kinda like celebrating someone's birthday by giving gifts to eachother instead of giving to the person.

It just makes so much more sense to celebrate the Biblical Feast that actually DO and always HAVE celebrated the very things we're trying to celebrate by partaking in Pagan holidays.

 

[Admiral]

I don't believe Christmas brings mankind closer. Have you seen the way people fight over items in department stores? Pure selfishness at its best. Tis' the season of giving and providing for your own.

I will not argue that selfishness is rampent.....The commerialism of Christmas is just plain horrible.


[quote:6ea4d]Christmas/Easter just feel wrong to me. I feel like if Christ wanted us to celebrate his birthday/ressurection on these dates in the manner that we do, he would've said so in the Word.. And besides, whats even more messed up is how we do it.

That is why we are encouraged to share Christmas, with family and friends...Show them how Christmas should be done.

Statistically, tithing goes down dramatically during the holidays because people are busy buying up junk for eachother. Now thats what I call celebrating the love of Christ. For me, its kinda like celebrating someone's birthday by giving gifts to eachother instead of giving to the person.

While that maybe true, have you noticed that gifts to Christian charitys is up during that month? Presents to children who are not of your family...Those trees that have specific needs for a family are placed in stores...Familys that normally would be celebrating a more meger Christmas....And there is a character building experience when familys give to other familys...

It just makes so much more sense to celebrate the Biblical Feast that actually DO and always HAVE celebrated the very things we're trying to celebrate by partaking in Pagan holidays.

[/quote:6ea4d]

You are perfectly welcome to celebrate Christmas any time during the year...There is no law that says that you MUST celebrate Christmas on Dec. 25....if at all....

There are some Churches that celebrate it later....The greek orthodox Christian church, I believe...Jan 6 comes to mind...

Anyways....Celebrating Christ birth is yours to do...It is just that the majority of Christians will celebrate around the 25th of December....

What