[_ Old Earth _] Why do Creationists misrepresent ToE?

[Deep Thought]

On numerous Creationist forums and websites, I've seen the most ridiculous and distorted explanations of evolution.

Time and time again, these people are corrected with the facts, but choose to ignore them. I can conclude there are only reasons I can think for this sad state of affairs:

1. Being completely deluded.
2. Being afraid of the truth.
3. Not caring about the truth.

 

[Dunzo]

What are we supposed to discuss here? That they do? Well of course they do. To be honest I can't remember a single refutation of evolution on this board that didn't involve a strawman of some sort.
I think we all know the main culprit of this misrepresentation...

 

[Deep Thought]

I'm just trying to understand the mindset that can do this. I get the impression that even when Creationists are telling lies, that somehow, they rationalise it into their warped version of the truth.

 

[John]

On numerous Creationist forums and websites, I've seen the most ridiculous and distorted explanations of evolution.

Time and time again, these people are corrected with the facts, but choose to ignore them. I can conclude there are only reasons I can think for this sad state of affairs:

1. Being completely deluded.
2. Being afraid of the truth.
3. Not caring about the truth.

Its because your "facts" have great controversy about them, and peoples would rather have faith in their God rather then the faulty works of man.

Deluded? maybe its you thats deluded
Afraid, yes i am Afraid of God.
Not caring? i would die for the truth.

 

[Ignatz]

I think creationists misrepresent TOE because they do not understand what the TOE actually says. Or, they understand what it says, but feel that lying in service to God is justifiable. Now, as to WHY lying about the natural world is a service to God is anybody's guess. After all, our understanding of evolution is what allows us to create new vaccines for the flu every year, for example. The bottom line is straight-up ignorance and fear. I have NEVER met someone who understands the ToE and doesn't believe it. In fact, once you understand it, There is nothing in it that necessarily prevents one from having faith that God created everything, it simply shows HOW God did it, If you are so inclined.

As for those creationists who claim to value the truth, I would say that this is a lie. They don't care about examining evidence, They don't care about searching for the truth and critically examining claims, after all, they have faith. Who cares wether it is true or not? They have FAITH that it is, and that's all that matters. What they really care about is protecting their world-view at all costs. If they are so sure that they are right, what is there to be afraid of by looking honestly at the ToE? For some reason, these people seem to think that if one believes in evolution, it extinguishes any possible belief in God and puts the gospels at risk.

Frankly, I see no reason to believe that the world is 6,000 years old any more than there is reason to believe that the earth is flat and has 4 corners.

Anyway, I blame ignorance and fear on the part of creationists

 

[John]

I think creationists misrepresent TOE because they do not understand what the TOE actually says. Or, they understand what it says, but feel that lying in service to God is justifiable. Now, as to WHY lying about the natural world is a service to God is anybody's guess. After all, our understanding of evolution is what allows us to create new vaccines for the flu every year, for example. The bottom line is straight-up ignorance and fear. I have NEVER met someone who understands the ToE and doesn't believe it. In fact, once you understand it, There is nothing in it that necessarily prevents one from having faith that God created everything, it simply shows HOW God did it, If you are so inclined.

As for those creationists who claim to value the truth, I would say that this is a lie. They don't care about examining evidence, They don't care about searching for the truth and critically examining claims, after all, they have faith. Who cares wether it is true or not? They have FAITH that it is, and that's all that matters. What they really care about is protecting their world-view at all costs. If they are so sure that they are right, what is there to be afraid of by looking honestly at the ToE? For some reason, these people seem to think that if one believes in evolution, it extinguishes any possible belief in God and puts the gospels at risk.

Frankly, I see no reason to believe that the world is 6,000 years old any more than there is reason to believe that the earth is flat and has 4 corners.

Anyway, I blame ignorance and fear on the part of creationists

I have read so many books and had both side presented to me every which way, i understand evolution, its a worthless theory.

 

[Deep Thought]

Afraid, yes i am Afraid of God.

OK, I'm glad you've confirmed that the reason you are afraid of the evolution is that you have a fear of your god. Fear can be a very over powering and motivating factor in causing delusion and irrational belief.

I do find it sad that so many people fear a god, rather than living life to the full and making the most of their short time on this planet.

 

[Deep Thought]

I have read so many books and had both side presented to me every which way, i understand evolution, its a worthless theory.

You say you understand evolution. Well what competing theory of evolution do you have to offer? Note that I'm referring to theory in the scientific sense.

 

[Ignatz]

I have read so many books and had both side presented to me every which way, i understand evolution, its a worthless theory.

Fascinating response, johnmulse. I am curious to hear your description of what the ToE says. it doesn't need to be a long, scientific treatise, and it would be helpful to show that we are on the same page insofar as what it is that we are disagreeing about.

To put it simply: Please describe the role of mutation and natural selection as you understand them in the current ToE.
This can be quickly summed-up in a short paragraph by anybody with a general understanding of ToE.

P.S.-(I'm not a scientist either, and I'm not trying to "call you out", so to speak. It's just that most people I debate this issue with can't even answer this simple question.) :-?

 

[Deep Thought]

John, I'm eagerly awaiting your reply.

 

[John]

Afraid, yes i am Afraid of God.

OK, I'm glad you've confirmed that the reason you are afraid of the evolution is that you have a fear of your god. Fear can be a very over powering and motivating factor in causing delusion and irrational belief.

I do find it sad that so many people fear a god, rather than living life to the full and making the most of their short time on this planet.

i am going though hell right now, we are about to get kicked out of my house, parants are fighting etc etc.

If i believed in evolution i would have killed myself, evolution = no hope.

 

[John]

John, I'm eagerly awaiting your reply.

Evolution to my understanding is a process in which something passes by degrees to a different stage.

Natural selection is the differential survival and reproduction of organisms with genetic characteristics that enable them to better utilize environmental resources.

 

[freeway]

"evolution" is the belief that all living things in our world have come into existences through unguided naturalistic processes starting from a primeval mass "soup" of subatomic particles and radiation, over approximately billion and billions of years. "evolutionist says politely to christian you should believe this" stuff :smt021

or loosely translated.... faith....

 

[Jayls5]

"evolution" is the belief that all living things in our world have come into existences through unguided naturalistic processes starting from a primeval mass "soup" of subatomic particles and radiation, over approximately billion and billions of years. "evolutionist says politely to christian you should believe this" stuff :smt021

or loosely translated.... faith....

Thank you for that hilariously overgeneralized view of abiogenesis combined with evolution, somehow attributing the two to be the same.

 

[Ignatz]

i am going though hell right now, we are about to get kicked out of my house, parants are fighting etc etc.

If i believed in evolution i would have killed myself, evolution = no hope.

I'm sorry to hear that, really. I myself am recovering from a kidney transplant, with a few complications, so I suppose I've seen happier days myself. Your comment is one that's made by many people of faith. Unfortunately, that is not proof or evidence that ToE is incorrect.
Take the example put forth by Sam Harris: If I claimed that there is a diamond the size of a refrigerator buried in my backyard, my claim would beg the question "WHY do you believe that?" If I then answered "Because it brings my family closer to spend sunday morning in the yard digging", or, "My belief in that diamond has given me hope and a reason to get up in the morning", or even "Because I wouldn't want to live in a world where there WASN'T a diamond the size of a refrigerator buried in my backyard" you would have no reason to take my claim seriously. For some reason, however, we accept reasons like this from people when they speak of their religious convictions, and it is considered impolite to require the same honesty and burden of proof required in every other arena of human discourse. reasons like this do absolutely nothing to prove or disprove anything.
Incidentally, There is no reason to let ToE interfere with a belief in God. Theories of electro-magnetism or thermodynamics are pretty much ignored by believers, why single out evolution?

All evolution states is that GROUPS of organisms change over time, due to, among other things, random mutations that will either help or hinder PARTICULAR organisms of that group, causing that organism to be more or less fit. A mutation that causes, for example, an organism to have a new enzyme that allows it to exploit a new food-source, will statistically stand a greater chance of survival, as will it's offspring. (this is natural selection: If a mutation is beneficial, the organism with that mutation is "selected" for survival by the environment) Over many generations, the descendants of this organism will occupy a greater percentage of the population at large, until that trait eventually becomes endemic in the population at large since it has been out-surviving and out-breeding the rest of the population.

That's all it is. change over time. It doesn't mean we are worthless, or that there is no hope.

 

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[Ignatz]

:smt024 Physicists, etc have been searching for TOE, but excluding GOD will inevitably & continually render their searches futile. :smt023

God is not required to explore the fields of astronomy, geology, biology, mathematics, etc, yet we still have lights that work, computers that work, vaccines that work, nuclear bombs and power-plants that work. Just because an invisible, unknowable super-natural agent isn't invoked hasn't slowed down the process of discovery one iota.

 

[Dunzo]

Afraid, yes i am Afraid of God.

OK, I'm glad you've confirmed that the reason you are afraid of the evolution is that you have a fear of your god. Fear can be a very over powering and motivating factor in causing delusion and irrational belief.

I do find it sad that so many people fear a god, rather than living life to the full and making the most of their short time on this planet.

i am going though hell right now, we are about to get kicked out of my house, parants are fighting etc etc.

If i believed in evolution i would have killed myself, evolution = no hope.

John, I'm eagerly awaiting your reply.

Evolution to my understanding is a process in which something passes by degrees to a different stage.

Natural selection is the differential survival and reproduction of organisms with genetic characteristics that enable them to better utilize environmental resources.

I'm sorry to have to pull you up on this, but it's pretty obvious due to the change in grammar and vocabulary that this is a copied and pasted response.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...&rls=en&hs=kLI&q=define:evolution&btnG=Search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...hs=G1c&q=define:natural+selection&btnG=Search

I'm certainly not convinced that you've even attempted to understand evolution, which is absolutely essential if you want to refute it. Seeing that you copied and pasted definitions just confirmed this for me.

Physicists, etc have been searching for TOE, but excluding GOD will inevitably & continually render their searches futile.

Physicists? Do you have ANY idea of what you're talking about?

 

[Jayls5]

Physicists? Do you have ANY idea of what you're talking about?

No. No he doesn't.

 

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