Gospel + Ammo for Christians to use in debates 2

[Who Me]

If that were true, only Christians could conduct science. Obviously that's not the case.

Why do you make that assumption?
Scientist work using ideas from Christianity, just as lawyers and campaigners do using Christian ideas about equality and justice for all. So scientists use the Christian ideas of a consistent understandable creation.

Can you find these ideas I other religious, philosophical and political world views?

 

[Uncle J]

Why do you make that assumption?

It's a conclusion based on the argument put forth, i.e., that science is entirely dependent on Christianity. If that were true, only Christians could conduct science, but since that's obviously not the case then the argument is false.

Scientist work using ideas from Christianity

Nope, I've been a scientist for almost 30 years and Christianity has never once come up.

So scientists use the Christian ideas of a consistent understandable creation.

Nope, we do not use the idea of creation at all.

Can you find these ideas I other religious, philosophical and political world views?

Of course. It could very well be that the reason we are able to study and understand the universe is because we are a product of it.

 

[Who Me]

It could very well be that the reason we are able to study and understand the universe is because we are a product of it.

That explains nothing.
You will be saying next that Christians who believe in a young earth cannot do science.

Ones bias does and presuppositions do not stop anyone from doing science research, they influence how one interprets the results of scientific research.
I am challenging your presupposition that everything is the result of random chance.

The Christian worldview explains why creation is consistent, and understandable with maths.

To say that is how it is, is not scientific.

 

[follower]

Nope, I've been a scientist for almost 30 years and Christianity has never once come up.

fwiw, it shows. (thus lack of any credibility)

 

[follower]

So should God have created robots??

The enemy/enemies of God have been making robots for some time now.
Very dangerous, even deadly. Very much leading multitudes away from trusting Jesus.

 

[Josef]

That explains nothing.
You will be saying next that Christians who believe in a young earth cannot do science.

Ones bias does and presuppositions do not stop anyone from doing science research, they influence how one interprets the results of scientific research.
I am challenging your presupposition that everything is the result of random chance.

The Christian worldview explains why creation is consistent, and understandable with maths.

To say that is how it is, is not scientific.

Hey All,
How can we possibly have the maths correct?

We don't know when day 1 was.
We know there was some time that Adam was by himself on the earth. He named all the animals before he became aware of his need for a mate. How long did that take? We don't know. But it is hard to imagine that Adam accomplished that in less than one day.

Unless God created all of the trees and plants as mature, the animals that rely on the trees and plants for food would die of starvation waiting for the fruits and vegetables to mature to an edible condition. So that's at least two to three months for most veggies; longer for tree based fruits.

The animals that rely on killing other animals for food would need an adequate supply of prey animals to survive. That would be 2-3 litters probably. So that's a few months to build up the supply.

The Garden of Eden had to be fully stocked to support Adam and Eve.

Now God could have planted a fully stocked garden, and created enough prey for the predators, and enough edible vegetation to sustain the animals He created.

Now I believe by faith that God figured it out. It doesn't keep me up at night.
But there are questions there that I cannot ignore.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Uncle J]

That explains nothing.
You will be saying next that Christians who believe in a young earth cannot do science.

Nope, I wouldn't say that at all. Anyone can believe anything and still do science, so long as they follow the scientific method.

I am challenging your presupposition that everything is the result of random chance.

I don't remember saying that.

The Christian worldview explains why creation is consistent, and understandable with maths.

Sure, in the same way that the Muslim, Mormon, Hindu, and other religious worldviews do....via assertions about gods.

 

[Who Me]

Hey All,
How can we possibly have the maths correct?

We don't know when day 1 was.
We know there was some time that Adam was by himself on the earth. He named all the animals before he became aware of his need for a mate. How long did that take? We don't know. But it is hard to imagine that Adam accomplished that in less than one day.

Unless God created all of the trees and plants as mature, the animals that rely on the trees and plants for food would die of starvation waiting for the fruits and vegetables to mature to an edible condition. So that's at least two to three months for most veggies; longer for tree based fruits.

The animals that rely on killing other animals for food would need an adequate supply of prey animals to survive. That would be 2-3 litters probably. So that's a few months to build up the supply.

The Garden of Eden had to be fully stocked to support Adam and Eve.

Now God could have planted a fully stocked garden, and created enough prey for the predators, and enough edible vegetation to sustain the animals He created.

Now I believe by faith that God figured it out. It doesn't keep me up at night.
But there are questions there that I cannot ignore.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

Do you believe what the Bible says, or do you believe how atheists interpret the bible?
The bible say God created in 6 days, that As genesis 1:30 says everything that has the breath of life in it I give every green plant for food.
As Jesus said, man was from the beginning of creation. No evolution, no death before Adams sin.

 

[Who Me]

Sure, in the same way that the Muslim, Mormon, Hindu, and other religious worldviews do....via assertions about gods.

Except Islam does not encourage questioning or investigations into nature and Hindu foundational beliefs are wildly inaccuracte.

Modern science developed because of the Christian world view.

That you as a scientist are not curious about this I find surprising.

 

[Josef]

Do you believe what the Bible says, or do you believe how atheists interpret the bible?
The bible say God created in 6 days, that As genesis 1:30 says everything that has the breath of life in it I give every green plant for food.
As Jesus said, man was from the beginning of creation. No evolution, no death before Adams sin.

Hey All,
I can believe what the Bible says, and still have questions.
For example, you say:

"No evolution, no death before Adams sin." Quote from Who Me

Of course there was death. Do you believe all of the predators were vegetarian before the fall?
They had to eat flesh because they had canine teeth. Carnivores would have been severely disadvantaged if they had to wait for canine teeth to replace the premolars and/or bicuspids. So there had to be death for predators to survive.
By the way, humans also have canine teeth. If Adam and Eve did not have them, then they evolved over time. If that happened, you are making a case for human evolution.

What do fish eat? Fish. That's all there is.

So I do not agree that there was no death.

Also, time does not apply to God. Both Old and New Testaments make that clear. And I believe what the Bible says about this also.

Psalms 90:4
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

So if the days were 1000 year eras of time, that would give the earth the actual time needed to mature support the next era.

My questions are not motivated by an atheist interpretation of Scripture. They exist because what is being said, which I believe by faith, does not match up with how things work in the real world.

This is why we can never get beyond the need for faith.
We have to exercise faith to believe what the Bible says.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Faith that God gives us is what we use to believe.
So to have faith, is to acknowledge that God exists.
Science will never do away with faith.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Uncle J]

Except Islam does not encourage questioning or investigations into nature and Hindu foundational beliefs are wildly inaccuracte.

Modern science developed because of the Christian world view.

That you as a scientist are not curious about this I find surprising.

How science began centuries ago, and the role non-Christian religions played in that makes zero difference to how we do our daily work today.

 

[KV-44-v1]

How can we possibly have the maths correct?

From tracing the genealogies in God's Word. By taking all those generations who lived for x years and died at x years old as literal real history and not vague allegory like 21st century revisionists insist.

Not saying you are one, just pointing them out.

We don't know when day 1 was.

Yeah but we have a very good estimate of it. From a 2024 AD standpoint, Day 1 was around 6,000 years ago.

We know there was some time that Adam was by himself on the earth. He named all the animals before he became aware of his need for a mate. How long did that take? We don't know. But it is hard to imagine that Adam accomplished that in less than one day.

Well the Bible says that Eve was created on day 6 aswell. Man had a MUCH better relationship with God before the Fall, so God likely greatly sped up the naming process.

And fun fact: the Original Kinds of animals would not yet have produced so many species. Creation was just created, leaving little or no time to reproduce.

So from a Biblical and scientific standpoint, no imagination needed.

Unless God created all of the trees and plants as mature, the animals that rely on the trees and plants for food would die of starvation waiting for the fruits and vegetables to mature to an edible condition. So that's at least two to three months for most veggies; longer for tree based fruits.

He did. Everything God originally created was "locked and loaded".
You should keep in mind Adam and eve's sin which RUINED God's creation. So there was no death of animal or man until the Fall. And fruit growing times would almost certainly have been shorter than today. Animals would have needed food for more than just life processes, since they would not die - death came in after the fall.

The animals that rely on killing other animals for food would need an adequate supply of prey animals to survive. That would be 2-3 litters probably. So that's a few months to build up the supply.

Don't take a bad thing ---- or a negative thing (i.e. predatory) we see today and extrapolate it into the past. Athiests make this mess up SO OFTEN.

Start from the Bible, not narrow views of today taken into the past.
"carnivores" ate plants too before the Fall, yes.

The Garden of Eden had to be fully stocked to support Adam and Eve.

It was. We don't know how big it was.

But there are questions there that I cannot ignore.

there are answers in Genesis. literally.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1 - New American Standard Bible

The Creation - In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light...

www.biblegateway.com

read much content frrom this:

https://www.answersingenesis.org

 

[KV-44-v1]

Of course there was death. Do you believe all of the predators were vegetarian before the fall?
They had to eat flesh because they had canine teeth. Carnivores would have been severely disadvantaged if they had to wait for canine teeth to replace the premolars and/or bicuspids. So there had to be death for predators to survive.
By the way, humans also have canine teeth. If Adam and Eve did not have them, then they evolved over time. If that happened, you are making a case for human evolution.

What do fish eat? Fish. That's all there is.

So I do not agree that there was no death

see my whole post that addresses this.

 

[KV-44-v1]

So if the days were 1000 year eras of time, that would give the earth the actual time needed to mature support the next era.

God created the earth mature.
Hebrew "Yom" means day, hands down. no room for reinterpretation.
The old earthers love using that verse, but it tears THEIR view to bits. so earth, taking that verse to suggest an age of earth, can only be around 12,000-14,000 years old!!

Why did God inspire "THOUSAND" and not larger number?? He probably knew that the old earths would use that to convince ppl of the old earth view. So His Word debunks old earth.

 

[Who Me]

I can believe what the Bible says, and still have questions.
For example, you say:

Do you believe all of the predators were vegetarian before the fall

Yet you totally ignored a quote from the bible, saying that God gave every green p.ant to all that had the breath of life.

Did God lie or make a mistake or does it mean that All living g things were vegitarian?

 

[Josef]

Do you believe all of the predators were vegetarian before the fall

Yet you totally ignored a quote from the bible, saying that God gave every green p.ant to all that had the breath of life.

Did God lie or make a mistake or does it mean that All living g things were vegitarian?

Hey All,
I am aware of Genesis 1;29-30

Genesis 1:29-30 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

I believe by faith this is true.ut here is the
catch 22:
If true, why were herbivores given canine teeth?
That seems unnecessary.
God doesn't do unnecessary, does He?
If herbivores developed canine teeth after the fall, you are describing evolution.
It defeats your argument against evolution.

The Bible doesn't explain this vegetarian to carnivore process in animals. But if it occurred, then that is another evolutionary event.

Explain why a skunk needs a scent bag.
Explain why a porcupine needs quills.
Probably because something is trying to eat them.
Were they created with these defensive devices or did they evolve them?
Or are we having a worldwide evolutionary event?

Why would we have an extinct species, the sabertooth tiger, with teeth they never used?

I believe by faith that God figured it out.
But that doesn't stop me from having questions.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz