Why do not all see God?

[dattaswami]

Why do not all see God?

Nobody sees God. God is not touched even by imagination. How can we see God? God enters some medium and becomes visible through that medium (through Lord in human form or Son of God). Through that medium also you are experiencing only the existence God. Only experience of existence is possible. There is no way to see God directly. The current cannot be seen directly. When it flows in a wire only its existence can be experienced.

 

[Dante-Alighieri]

Oh, just like people of all other religions "see" their gods? Through subjective experiences?
I don't know about that, seems like a poor way to discern what's true or not.


Dante

 

[dattaswami]

The absolute knowledge of the absolute God is impossible

Oh, just like people of all other religions "see" their gods? Through subjective experiences?
I don't know about that, seems like a poor way to discern what's true or not.


Dante

The absolute knowledge of the absolute God is impossible

The absolute knowledge of the absolute God is impossible because the absolute God is unimaginable. The absolute God comes in human form to give you the experience of His existence, in absence of which, you may deny the very existence of the absolute God and may become atheist (Astityeva….Veda). The identification of the human form in which the absolute God exists is the knowledge of God (Brahma Jnanam or Brahma Vidya).

The experience of the existence of the absolute God does not reveal any trace of the nature of the absolute God and hence God is always unimaginable. The only information about the absolute God is that God exists. “Aum Tat Sat†means that God exists and no more information about God is available. The word Tat means that God is beyond your imagination. The word Aum denotes that God is the creator, ruler and destroyer of this world. These three adjectives indicate the works (Creation, rule and destruction) of God only and not the nature of the God. This is called as the information about the existence only (Sanmatra vada). God comes in human form, which is characterized by the awareness or chit.

 

[Free]

The absolute knowledge of the absolute God is impossible

Yes, of course. But we can have a limited, true knowledge of the absolute God. Just because we cannot have absolute knowledge of God doesn't mean that we cannot have any knowledge of him.

The only information about the absolute God is that God exists. “Aum Tat Sat†means that God exists and no more information about God is available.

Okay. So as I pointed out in another thread, you now go on to refute the above statements:

"The word Tat means that God is beyond your imagination." --this is more information about God.
"The word Aum denotes that God is the creator, ruler and destroyer of this world."--this is also more information about God.

You seem to know a lot about this absolute God who we cannot have an knowledge or information of.

 

[dattaswami]

The absolute knowledge of the absolute God is impossible

Yes, of course. But we can have a limited, true knowledge of the absolute God. Just because we cannot have absolute knowledge of God doesn't mean that we cannot have any knowledge of him.

[quote:1lidzib0] The only information about the absolute God is that God exists. “Aum Tat Sat†means that God exists and no more information about God is available.

Okay. So as I pointed out in another thread, you now go on to refute the above statements:

"The word Tat means that God is beyond your imagination." --this is more information about God.
"The word Aum denotes that God is the creator, ruler and destroyer of this world."--this is also more information about God.

You seem to know a lot about this absolute God who we cannot have an knowledge or information of.[/quote:1lidzib0]

These are not the characteristics of God. You have not known anything about Him still have you? We know that He is Creator, ruler and destroyer of this world. But it is not His property...
He can create, rule and destroy like a king, but you have not known anything characteristics of God still. You have not understood Him still.

All the worldly items have dimensions of the space and hence are not beyond space. If the items are beyond space, they will be also unimaginable. But all the items of the world are imaginable only. No imaginable item can be a simile to the unimaginable God. Hence, a complete simile for God is absent in this world. A simile among the worldly items also is never perfect in all aspects. The face is compared to the moon. Moon increases and decreases in the month but the face has no such increase and decrease. An imaginable item cannot be a perfect simile to another imaginable item in the world. Then, how can you bring a perfect simile from the imaginable items to the unimaginable God? Of course, God enters into an imaginable item as medium. In that case the medium itself is said to be God as the live wire is said to be the current itself. Here also the medium is treated as God but actually the medium is not God directly.

 

[Free]

These are not the characteristics of God. You have not known anything about Him still have you? We know that He is Creator, ruler and destroyer of this world. But it is not His property...
He can create, rule and destroy like a king, but you have not known anything characteristics of God still. You have not understood Him still.

Since God is "Creator, ruler and destroyer of this world", I know that he is very powerful.

To say that God is "unimaginable" is also to presuppose a certain characteristic or characteristics about God.

To say that God is "absolute" also presupposes certain characteristics.

 

[dattaswami]

These are not the characteristics of God. You have not known anything about Him still have you? We know that He is Creator, ruler and destroyer of this world. But it is not His property...
He can create, rule and destroy like a king, but you have not known anything characteristics of God still. You have not understood Him still.

Since God is "Creator, ruler and destroyer of this world", I know that he is very powerful.

To say that God is "unimaginable" is also to presuppose a certain characteristic or characteristics about God.

To say that God is "absolute" also presupposes certain characteristics.

In such case, you cannot use the word “Unimaginable†at all! Then, why that word is created? What is the meaning of that word? If you choose that way, silence only indicates God and some have followed this way also. Suppose you say, “I cannot utter thatâ€Â. Does this mean that you have uttered that? Therefore, it is one and the same to indicate God through silence or through the word unimaginable. If a word is not assigned, mention of God becomes impossible in the spiritual knowledge. Veda uses the word “Unimaginable†for God (Atarkyah…Aprameyah…).

 

[Free]

In such case, you cannot use the word “Unimaginable†at all!

That's my point. Your philosophy is contradictory and incoherent.

 

[dattaswami]

In such case, you cannot use the word “Unimaginable†at all!

That's my point. Your philosophy is contradictory and incoherent.

The world and the human body of the Lord give the proof for the existence of God beyond the world and God beyond the human body of human incarnation respectively. You have not perceived the electricity in the wire and you have only experienced the existence of unperceivable electricity through the medium of wire and electricity is separate from the wire. Of course, electricity is imaginable for scientists and here it is used, as a simile only for God and the unperceivable nature of electricity is a comparison for the unimaginable nature of God. Except God, all are imaginable items and hence there is no other way than to choose an imaginable item as a comparison for the unimaginable God.

We take the unperceivable item or an item, which can be imagined with lot of difficulty as a comparison for the really unimaginable God. Awareness is an item of the world, which can be imagined with lot of difficulty and hence is selected as the best comparison for unimaginable God. Unfortunately, the concept of comparison is lost and awareness itself is thought to be God directly. One day the electricity in the wire compared to God by Me may become God! Another reason for such misunderstanding is metaphor, which is a figure of speech like simile. The simile reminds constantly that God and awareness are different items. But the metaphor misleads easily the ignorant people to think that awareness is God.

Only scholars can recognize the metaphor carefully. If you say that a person is like a lion, it is simile. The word “like†acts as the torchlight constantly to separate the person and the lion. In metaphor, we say, “The person is lionâ€Â. This misleads ignorant people to think that the person is actually the lion and they think that every lion (person) of the “Lions club†(A club of important persons who serve the people) is actually a lion, which will kill the people! Veda is the greatest poetry of the greatest poet, the God (Kavim Kavinam….Veda). Advaita scholars are also great scholars of all Shastras and they know this figure of speech very well. Alankara Shastra deals with figures of speech. They know the truth very well. But already they are so much intensively attracted by the concept of the soul to be God, that they cannot come out of this sweetest dream in which they get the highest without the least effort!

The dreamer knows that it is only dream but the sweetness is so much that he does not like to come out of it. A scientist is relatively better than such Advaita Scholar, who is caught by the powerful ghost of Mohini, because the scientist thinks himself as an ordinary soul and not God. You may say that the scientist denies God, which is the greatest sin. I agree to it, but if you analyze, even the Advaita scholar is also an indirect atheist. He is denying God apart from himself, which also means an indirect negation of God.

After the establishment of a simile, metaphor is used further in all contexts. A great person is compared to a lion and once this simile is established, the metaphor is used further and every important person is called as the lion. Thus, the lions of the lions club mean the important persons and not the actual cruel animals (lions). Similarly, it is established that the God is compared to soul and the universe is compared to the human body. Therefore, the word soul can stand for God as the word lion stands for the important person. Hence, in Veda the word Atman (soul) is used to mean God in some places. It does not mean that the word soul stands for the actual soul, just like the word lion in the lions club does not stand for the actual lion. At least in the first case the great person and lion are imaginable items and we can use the word ‘great person’ without lion. But in the second case, God is unimaginable and always needs an imaginable item for comparison. This problem becomes more significant when God comes in the form of a soul (human incarnation) where the word soul has to be used as the external cover (Upadhi) to indicate the direct address of God.