Why don't [some] pastors and laypeople follow Philippians 2:3?

[Pard]

On second look at the OP I noticed something. Gated community, body guards, and yet he drives a truck... Ever consider that he actually has security issues? I mean a big pastor like that (head of 8000 people) could potentially have a giant target on their back. A gated community isn't just for the rich, but for those who need safety. Some of the most safe neighborhood around are in those communities. Imagine if he has had threats at his life. The best place to move your family, for their safety, would be a gated community and to employ some big body guards to watch your back. These big deal pastors really do get death threats and stuff from time to time. If he is getting threats because of who he is and what he does, is it really any deal at all that he is dipping into the church funds for his salary a little more than usually? After all, it is because of that church and his position that he may be in trouble...

Of course he could also just like the heated pool and the tennis courts and the golf club he gets access too. If I was as rich as Bill Gates I'd still be driving a pickup truck (of course it'd be like a 2500HD with a giant Duramax... as opposed to a 1500 Z71 with a 6l).

My point is this. You are not supposed to judge anyone because you do not know what is going on in their life or who they are. Maybe it pains him that he has to take that extra money, maybe he is dipping more than you could even imagine.

Don't judge anyone, let God do that, it's one of the many things He is good at. If it really bugs you, vote with your feet and leave...

 

[Deavonreye]

A part of me is envious of his wealth, sure. Being unemployed, and only being human, I desire a better life.

That's not what this thread is about. Would Jesus except so much wealth when his followers were struggling, . . .many not by their own cause, but by not being able to find enough work?

And there is some truth to him feeling the need for protection from people. But then isn't it relying on his own self, and not on god, for his protection?

And as for "he teaches many people [and does a lot of work, praying, interceding, etc.], so deserves to be paid well", . . . . . doesn't EVERY pastor do that? How many GREAT pastors also have to work other jobs, yet still does what the "rich pastor" does?

I am reading a lot of apologies for a man, and it really seems TO ME like such men are made into human idols. I think there is a problem when one person is allowed to be exhaulted so highly.

 

[Alabaster]

A part of me is envious of his wealth, sure. Being unemployed, and only being human, I desire a better life.

I appreciate your honesty here. Envy is usually behind what is behind this kind of judgment.

That's not what this thread is about. Would Jesus except so much wealth when his followers were struggling, . . .many not by their own cause, but by not being able to find enough work?

Jesus is our provider.

And there is some truth to him feeling the need for protection from people. But then isn't it relying on his own self, and not on god, for his protection?

How do you know that God wasn't providing that added benefit to his life? god knows what we need, and He provides it. Our pastors put themselves on the line for us daily.

And as for "he teaches many people [and does a lot of work, praying, interceding, etc.], so deserves to be paid well", . . . . . doesn't EVERY pastor do that? How many GREAT pastors also have to work other jobs, yet still does what the "rich pastor" does?

God is the one who prospers us. Some leaders in the churches are not called, but have called themselves.

Some churches that are formed do not have resources to pay for their pastors fully, so they must take another job to support themselves and their families. God sees them through that. As a church obeys God and follows Him, it will be blessed to grow and eventually those churches will be able to support their pastor, releasing Him to lead them full-time without the conflict of other employment. It's a journey for that congregation and also for their pastors.

I am reading a lot of apologies for a man, and it really seems TO ME like such men are made into human idols. I think there is a problem when one person is allowed to be exhaulted so highly.

It is wrong to idolize one's pastor. However, our pastors are held to a higher standard by God, in charge of our spiritual health, and we must give them due honour. It isn't just a job. It is a ministry, and pastors are required to pour themselves out for the people. That is why we are told to pay them well, for it is a ministry that is physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually taxing.

 

[pjt]

A part of me is envious of his wealth, sure. Being unemployed, and only being human, I desire a better life.

That's not what this thread is about. Would Jesus except so much wealth when his followers were struggling, . . .many not by their own cause, but by not being able to find enough work?

?.

I`m sorry to hear of your unemployment so many people are also walking in your shoes. You are not alone, but to your question of one person accomolating so much wealth while his flock suffers, there is SO much in the Bible from the OT through the NT to speak on this. For example in Romans 12 it`s about the service of love to each other. In v. 13 it says "distributing to the necessity of the saints". The saints are our Brothers and Sisters in Christ. It`s not the poor muslim in Bangladesh. Or the stuggling atheist in Russia or even the nonChristian down the street, but it is our brothers and sisters in Christ who are right around us and then our brothers and sisters throughout the world. Finally, if there is anything left then we can help those outside our Christian family. But God wants us to help each other. It`s stated clearly in 2 Cor. 8: 13-14. Perhaps the most powerful verses on this are in Acts 4:32-5:11. The Believers in Christ were expected to take care of each other so that "no one was in need" and when a couple gave but only shared a portion, God flat out killed them! That`s severe, but the Bible says it so I believe it. God didn`t look favorably on their hoarding and I believe God is the same today as then. Unfortunately we just don`t see Christians living out this faith today where we conciously are taking care of and looking out for each other. I think we as Christians have gone way off the mark in this area.

 

[Alabaster]

The Believers in Christ were expected to take care of each other so that "no one was in need" and when a couple gave but only shared a portion, God flat out killed them! That`s severe, but the Bible says it so I believe it. God didn`t look favorably on their hoarding and I believe God is the same today as then.

This reference to Ananias and Sapphira is not correct. Their sin was not in hoarding. They were very generous to their church. Their sin was in letting people have the impression that they gave all of their proceeds of selling their asset to the church. What they gave was a lot, and it was a good thing that they did, but the impression was that they gave it all, when they gave a portion, and that was a sin.

So, you cannot use these poor people as an example for hoarding.

 

[pjt]

This reference to Ananias and Sapphira is not correct. Their sin was not in hoarding. They were very generous to their church. Their sin was in letting people have the impression that they gave all of their proceeds of selling their asset to the church. What they gave was a lot, and it was a good thing that they did, but the impression was that they gave it all, when they gave a portion, and that was a sin.

So, you cannot use these poor people as an example for hoarding.

We`ll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Alabaster]

We`ll just have to agree to disagree.

The explanation is right in the text. I won't veer off topic on this issue, but a simple re-read will reveal that hoarding was not their sin. They had a right to give whatever they wished to the church---they didn't have to give it all, but they lied, creating the impression that they gave the entire proceeds of the sale of their property to the church. There was the issue of pride, but their sin was lying to God.

 

[Pard]

We`ll just have to agree to disagree.

Be Honest

Or go read that passage over again, it is very clear that they lied and were struck down for this, not because they didn't give.

 

[theophilus3213]

Prov 22:2
2 The rich and poor meet together: the LORD is the maker of them all. KJV

I am currently unemployed, and I trust God to supply my needs. God chooses to make some people rich, others He chooses to make poor. He does so according to His own will and purposes.

Job 1:21
21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD. KJV

Job 2:10
10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips. KJV

Luke 12:15-31
15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.
16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
22 And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.
23 The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.
24 Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?
25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
26 If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?
27 Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?
29 And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.
30 For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.
31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you. KJV

shaloam

 

[Alabaster]

God doesn't make people poor. He lifts them out of poverty, enabling them to serve Him and others with their resources that He increases as they obey Him.

Jesus Christ enables those of meager means to live well in spite of their circumstances when they honour Him first, and for the same reason, He will also completely change those circumstances to states of great supply to overflowing.