Why is it that....

[Henry]

It is a fact that more then 80% of the pastors in America are suffering from clinical depresion.

Why is that?

I personally think it is becuase they are loaded with work, that was never theirs and the "church" lets them just bear it to the grave.

 

[gingercat]

It is a fact that more then 80% of the pastors in America are suffering from clinical depresion.

Why is that?

I personally think it is becuase they are loaded with work, that was never theirs and the "church" lets them just bear it to the grave.

Parhaps it is because they are not doing a good job as leaders of flocks. They have to do something different but they are not doing it. The church members' fruit of Christianity is their fruit and most of the churchgoers are not showing much fruit of Christianity.

 

[Henry]

They do need to do something different, they need to NOT be THE Leader, since the Bible nevers says they should be. But they should be JUST one of the leaders amoung all the men in the church.

The problem is stated when you supose the "pastpor" is the guy who makes it happen, not at so. God grows his church.

God did not intend for single pastor leadership, he wanted and wants a plural elder leadership, each equal in status as a leader.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

They do need to do something different, they need to NOT be THE Leader, since the Bible nevers says they should be. But they should be JUST one of the leaders amoung all the men in the church

That would mean a smaller salary (if at all) which would definitely make them even more depressed. Probably their depression already has to do with money. Most pastors I have known were obsessed with having a "successful church" which, to them, means a large membership which means more money and status for the pastor. Those whose churches were not as successful as hoped (which is usually most of them) tend to be very distraught. They have no concept of what the church is supposed to be. They are entrepenuers.

 

[gingercat]

They do need to do something different, they need to NOT be THE Leader, since the Bible nevers says they should be. But they should be JUST one of the leaders amoung all the men in the church

That would mean a smaller salary (if at all) which would definitely make them even more depressed. Probably their depression already has to do with money. Most pastors I have known were obsessed with having a "successful church" which, to them, means a large membership which means more money and status for the pastor. Those whose churches were not as successful as hoped (which is usually most of them) tend to be very distraught. They have no concept of what the church is supposed to be. They are entrepenuers.

I agree with you. Because they are seeking popularity they are in trouble with the Lord. That sure cause them to be depressed. I believe the pastors don't have to do so much if their congregations are faithful followers.

 

[Free]

I don't think Henry realizes that the time it takes in prayer and study to do the work of the Lord to the best of one's gifting means that they cannot possibly do any other work. It takes one wholly devoted to God, who can fully concentrate on God to do the job of shepherding well.

Of course, there should be greater delegation amongst church members, but someone needs to lead. Sheep without a shepherd quickly get lost.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

I don't think Henry realizes that the time it takes in prayer and study to do the work of the Lord to the best of one's gifting means that they cannot possibly do any other work. It takes one wholly devoted to God, who can fully concentrate on God to do the job of shepherding well.

Of course, there should be greater delegation amongst church members, but someone needs to lead. Sheep without a shepherd quickly get lost.

The problem is that the role of the modern-day pastor is more akin to a CEO than a shepherd - this because of the form the churches have adopted as businesses. I personally know of the pastor of the biggest AOG church in a major city in California who actually referred to himself (in private, of course) as the CEO. He said this to a friend of mine who was working in the church and came to him with a problem. The essence of his answer was that her problem was beneath him cause he was the CEO and that she should go to one of the asst. leaders.

 

[Chief117]

Personally, I think Pastors of today's age have so much trouble because of improper church organization. I think that most churches today have a weak or non-existent group of elders (deacons).

Men who fill these Godly positions, at least when they fill them properly, should alleviate a lot of stress on a Pastor.

I heard a story once that went something like this: a Pastor came across an issue in his church, and he brought it before the elders in a meeting. He asked them to pray on it, seek the Bible, and read the Bible in the matter of this issue, and then report back after a week.

A week later at the follow-up meeting no one had a response to the Pastor's request. One elder reportedly muttered, "I wish he'd just tell us what he's decided and move on."

Godly men in Christ ordained positions can save a church, not to mention a Pastor.

 

[gingercat]

Personally, I think Pastors of today's age have so much trouble because of improper church organization. I think that most churches today have a weak or non-existent group of elders (deacons).

Men who fill these Godly positions, at least when they fill them properly, should alleviate a lot of stress on a Pastor.

I heard a story once that went something like this: a Pastor came across an issue in his church, and he brought it before the elders in a meeting. He asked them to pray on it, seek the Bible, and read the Bible in the matter of this issue, and then report back after a week.

A week later at the follow-up meeting no one had a response to the Pastor's request. One elder reportedly muttered, "I wish he'd just tell us what he's decided and move on."

Godly men in Christ ordained positions can save a church, not to mention a Pastor.

If a pastor is really concerned about leading the flock, he would know what the church needs and act accordingly. The Chruch's responsibilities are all in the NT.

 

[Khristeeanos]

I personally believe that we shouldn't have "pastors" as they are today.

Every church should follow the Biblical pattern and be independant and decon-lead.

But they should cooperate with other independant churches that are decon-lead.

 

[Henry]

BradtheImpaler

A smaller salary? Yes that is a great idea or better yet none at all. Then they would lead because they want to not for money, and get this they can work a JOB like everyone else. After all even Paul was a tent maker.

And man this thing about the success of a church being about numbers, that is so far from the bible how do we keep letting it go?

God is building HIS church right? So then who are we to start laying out the conditions which say HE is doing it right or not?

Besides, the biggest problem with the “pastor†is that his job isn’t even found in the bible to start with. Which is a HUGE part of the high depression, trying to reinvent the wheel can be very hard and pointless work at times.

Free

LOL you think I am not aware of the time and prayer it takes? Or the amount of study one needs to do? You could not be more wrong, I preach three to four times per month, and usually in a jail or mental hospital. I am MORE THEN aware at the time it takes to get ready.

The problem that you are not willing to face is simple. The pastor of the church is not in the bible, the bible shows a church lead by MANY elder TOGETHER equal in status. NEVER IS the charge of running the church ever put on one man, and NEVER was the church ever to be anything but a family.

Sorry, but the institution that says A MAN is the THE pastor and HE is in CHARGE, is not found in the bible. It just isn’t there.

As for my awareness, you have no idea what I do.

1. I am hospital chaplain
2. I preach several times per month in various institutions
3. I am an elder in my house church
4. I am in Seminary
5. I work
6. I am a wedding officiant

Believe it when I say I know the time and prayer it takes, man do I ever.

Chief117

You are right, but only partly right. The pastors office needs to be done away with all together and we need to return the to the plurality of elders leading. And not in the sense of a ruler, but as examples.

Hmm go figure just as the bible says 

Oh, by the way a few things about elders. The elders in the bible where not a board of men that got together to serve as a committee. They were active day to day in the lives of all the people.

And they were called to be shepherds, not you are the pastor, but you as an elder should be a shepherd to them.

ONE of the things an elder does is pastor, but no elder was ever called the Pastor.

Gingercat

Well said about the NT, the problem is that if the pastor really did what the NT said, he would have to step down. Since his job isn’t there, it is pure traditions to come MUCH MUCH later.

Bonsai

Uhmm I agree that we should not have pastors at all, but the early church was lead by elders.

 

[Imagican]

What a mess huh Henry.

The most serious problem with what you propose is NOT those that seek leadership, it's the PEOPLE THAT FOLLOW. Just as the Jews insisted upon having an 'earthly' king instead of allowing God to be their King, people today would be 'completely lost' without their 'church kings', (leaders, pastor). We are dependant upon our 'false understanding' about 'WhO' our leaders should be. As proof of what I offer:

We personally and freely 'CHOOSE' how we worship and WHERE.

And isn't amazing how we can TOTALLY ignore scripture and what we are taught by God simply because it's more desirable to 'do it our way'?

 

[Heidi]

James tells us not to presume to be teachers because teachers are held to a mugh higher account than non-teahcers. There are many, many pastors who unfortunately become pastors to glorify themselves instead of to glorify God. All the prophets in the OT were humble men who didn't have much influence in society. The fact is, that most people don't want to hear the truth which is why it's very rarely preached from the pulpit. Instead, it is sugar-coated to attract people to the congregation and to the pastor himself.

 

[Imagican]

Kind of like actors performing on stage huh? And bands performing to the people instead of singing praises to God?

Amazing how open and accepting so many are to being fed 'their will' instead of that of God.

 

[Henry]

Imagican

Amen, the OT Jews wanted an earthly king and so they got one. Likewise the church asked for a king and we got many of them.

I have thought about that parrallel many times.

Heidi

The funny thing about the lack of truth being preached from the pulpit is that the idea of "preaching" and "pulpit" isn't even biblical. Did you know that it is pagan?

That is the truth most christians would not want to hear, that our "pastors" "preaching" from a "pulpit" comes from paganism and not the bible. What a shokcker that is huh

 

[Free]

As for my awareness, you have no idea what I do.

1. I am hospital chaplain
2. I preach several times per month in various institutions
3. I am an elder in my house church
4. I am in Seminary
5. I work
6. I am a wedding officiant

Believe it when I say I know the time and prayer it takes, man do I ever.

So instead of doing one thing well....You would have been much better off just listing a couple. Doing things doesn't mean that one knows what they are doing or is good at doing them. One reason why I am for pastors of churches is because that is what they do. They can completely focus on God spend time with him. It doesn't sound you have time to eat nevermind spend a lot of time with God.

As it is, your arguments are for the most part without basis and, well, just plain wrong. Your argument that preaching from a pulpit is pagan is totally absurd. It may well be from pagan origins, I don't know and don't care, but to argue that it makes preaching in a church wrong is beyond reason.

 

[Free]

As for my awareness, you have no idea what I do.

1. I am hospital chaplain
2. I preach several times per month in various institutions
3. I am an elder in my house church
4. I am in Seminary
5. I work
6. I am a wedding officiant

Believe it when I say I know the time and prayer it takes, man do I ever.

So instead of doing one thing well....You would have been much better off just listing a couple. Doing things doesn't mean that one knows what they are doing or is good at doing them. One reason why I am for pastors of churches is because that is what they do. They can completely focus on God spend time with him. It doesn't sound you have time to eat nevermind spend a lot of time with God.

As it is, your arguments are for the most part without basis and, well, just plain wrong. Your argument that preaching from a pulpit is pagan is totally absurd. It may well be from pagan origins, I don't know and don't care, but to argue that it makes preaching in a church wrong is beyond reason.