Why would God create "a multitude of worshippers"?

[Orion]

I've been listening to a lot of Christian radio and have many questions, and this is one of them. I've heard it said that God created us to worship him. To most Christians, this sounds right, and they do so. But when I start pondering the notion of it, that God created us for the sole purpose of having a multitude of people worship him, I have to wonder what it says about "the character" of such a being "creating the worship of himself"? I'm not trying to be "blasphemous" here, by any stretch of the imagination. Perhaps I am, more so, trying to point out a flaw in our OWN ideas of what God desires or what God would want. Have we misunderstood God here?

If we take any person, even the best person in the world, morally or however they may be, . . . and that person expects to be worshipped or praised by everyone for all times, . . . we would see that person as an "ego maniac". This has nothing to do with their actual worthiness. Even if this person WAS completely perfect and without flaw, for them to require worship of other people, that would cause then to, then, HAVE a flaw. One of "the desire for having him/herself continually being praised by those who are lesser people". Regardless of whether or not that person IS superior to everyone else, the desire to receive praise for it would diminish the character of that person, because demanding worship, that person now has demonstrated a lack somewhere in their life that they feel will be satisfied by the worship of multitudes.

I hope you can follow what I'm saying here. I don't think God created us to "worship him for all eternity". He created us for fellowship. And regardless of the fact that God is superior, I don't believe that God would need or even desire that kind of one sided fellowship. I see that notion as a man made invention based upon what he knew (at the time scriptural manuscripts were being written) where one man was king and required this sort of worship from his subjects. And these earthly kings, being flawed human beings, tend to want to "puff themselves up", just like most of us desire. The desire to be revered. The desire to have people tell you "how good of job you did, or are doing". This is a human desire. . . . . I just don't see it as one that God would have.

 

[cyberjosh]

Actually, if I may attempt to correct some terminology here, God created us for his glory. All things were created for the Glory of the Father. Is this a boastful glory, does God boast in it in and of itself? I say God has instead of remaining removed within his own glory and holiness has rather displayed it in more humble and loving ways than we can possibly justify by putting it into words. Certainly God had exonerated himself when defied by the foolishness of men, such as when Job questioned God and God gave him a comprehensive display of his glory in all he had created, but God does not flaunt his glory to the degredation of his inferior creations. Infact God prides his glory in including his benevolence. In God's mind the more mercy he can show, and the more love and grace he can give, he glorifies his perfect and compassionate nature all the more. God's lovingkindness and tender nature compliments and bolsters his strength and glory by manifesting it in all possible ways at all possible levels to its very extremes even to the point of displaying his glory through humblness (and even Jesus obviously humbled himself by coming in the flesh). It is the perfect tension/combination which reinforces God's glory and holiness.

Why do you think Lucifer got the rediculous notion that he could glorify himself above God? Could it be *gasp* because God actually displays humbleness? Oh, certainly not...! Yet it is so. I believe Satan saw how God was loving and tender and in his wicked mind considered it a weakness of God when infact it was his very strength and to his glory, honor, and credit. God desires us to worship him and praise him for His glory out of His deep longing to relate to other creatures. Why do we do nice things to others? We want to help them out and show compassion in order to make them happy and develop a relationship with them, so that we can delight in one another. God's desires are no differnt, and God's desires are pure and holy. We glorify God because he is holy and wholely deserving of prasie, because while he would have been perfectly justified to be solely our Judge and condemner for falling short of his perfect nature he tempered his holiness and extended it by including mercy which shows the outstanding, indescribable, amazing, limitless, unbelievable love and perfect glory of God's nature. This is why we honor and glorify God in our worship and how we live our lives.

May God be praised!

~Josh

 

[Hugo]

Good thread, Orion. This claim has bothered me for some time.

I share your predilections. I think this flaw is due in part to the personification of God. ('God is a spirit,' not a grey-beard in space.)

I have the suspicion that it 'puffs up' some people to make this claim as if they possessed such zeal.

That being said, it could likewise be personifying God too much to think it wrong of him to desire worship.

 

[TanNinety]

When we look at the creation account in Genesis, most of the creation is spawned by “let there be†sort of a command from God. But when it came to man it says ‘God formed man’, He didn’t say, “let there be manâ€Â. God took special interest in creating man in His image. So it is better for us to go back to that point to investigate the purpose that was given to man.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

To me it says man was created to have dominion over the creation of God, eat, laugh, be happy, multiply and tend to earth. When a man and a woman have kids, they are not looking for their kids to “worship†them for the rest of their lives but to have a family fellowship and where the parents can teach their kids right from wrong and have them grow old in front of their eyes. To me, God is not any different. When we look at Genesis, I find God only wanting fellowship from Adam and Eve. They walked, talked had a good time. I don’t see God constantly asking Adam and Eve to fall on their faces and ask for worship. It was a relationship based on love, a Father-child love, not a master-slave love.

Having said that, I try to listen to Christian-radio but often find songs that actually are not based on the truth in the scriptures but what would make a Sunday sermon and get some amens.

When man got kicked out of the garden of eden and lost fellowship with God, the priorities of man changed a bit. We no longer held the dominion which was given to us in Genesis. So the purpose of man now is to get back into that family fellowship with God. Why? Because that was the intended purpose of creation to be a big happy family.

When kids misbehave and are grounded, what does it take for them to get back into the good grace of their parents?

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.

That is where I find myself. On the path to being reconciled into the family of God and waiting on entering into the kingdom. I do not know where “the sole purpose of man is to worship God†can be found in scripture. To me the purpose of fellowship seems more accurate.

 

[Orion]

: I enjoyed your post, Hugo. :

There is truth in it, though. What we think we know of God and those attributes associated with God. . . . . . . may be a mere glimpse, or may be completely wrong, based upon our own failures in "personification classifications" of a being such as God. :

 

[MrVersatile48]

Jesus said the first & most important commandment is, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind & all your strength"

The word 'worship' was originally 'worth-ship' - to acknowledge God's infinite value & worth as Almighty Creator, Saviour & Lord

Hence Revelation 4:9-11

9Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever,

10the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne, and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

11"You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being."

& Revelation 5:11-14

11Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders.

12In a loud voice they sang:

"Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!"

13Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing:
"To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!"

14The four living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and worshiped.


& the warnings of Romans 1:18-25

God's Wrath Against Mankind

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualitiesâ€â€his eternal power and divine natureâ€â€have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools

23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creatorâ€â€who is forever praised. Amen.

=============================================================

Anyone know how many hundred time the Bible tells us to "Praise the Lord!"

It's good for us to acknowledge His infinite love, power, glory, etc - man is a worshipper by nature & if we don't worship God first & foremost - (Have no other gods before Me) - we will worship false gods, inc pride, power, prestige, possessions etc that boost selfish ambition

God only commands what is good for us & only forbids what is bad for us

Hope that helps


God bless!

Ian

 

[Orion]

I understand giving honor where honor is due, and even extreme gratefullness for who God is and what God does, and has done. But I don't see "requiring an eternity of continual praise from that which was created" as a characteristic that God would have. It isn't a humble one, even though "humility of God" does seem a bit oxymoronic, considering that God would have every right to require this everlasting praise. I just don't see it as a Godly characteristic.

Now, everlasting respect and admiration is conceivable and would be expected from us simple human folk. But too much of anything isn't necessarily a good thing.

 

[Solo]

I understand giving honor where honor is due, and even extreme gratefullness for who God is and what God does, and has done. But I don't see "requiring an eternity of continual praise from that which was created" as a characteristic that God would have. It isn't a humble one, even though "humility of God" does seem a bit oxymoronic, considering that God would have every right to require this everlasting praise. I just don't see it as a Godly characteristic.

Now, everlasting respect and admiration is conceivable and would be expected from us simple human folk. But too much of anything isn't necessarily a good thing.

The Scriptures do not say that God requires continual praise.

The humility of God was revealed in Jesus Christ. There is no greater humility than the life of Jesus Christ.

Allowing you to breath one more breath should be enough to cause you praise God for eternity.

 

[Orion]

But, in Heaven, . . . will we wake up in the morning (if we even sleep at all), and thank God for the breath in our lungs (if we even have that type of body that requires oxygen to stay alive)? I can agree with the here and now being thankful to God for each day that is given us.

I tend to look on it as the story of Adam and Eve depicts. God having a "close friend" fellowship with those created in God's image.

 

[cyberjosh]

I understand giving honor where honor is due, and even extreme gratefullness for who God is and what God does, and has done. But I don't see "requiring an eternity of continual praise from that which was created" as a characteristic that God would have. It isn't a humble one, even though "humility of God" does seem a bit oxymoronic, considering that God would have every right to require this everlasting praise. I just don't see it as a Godly characteristic.

Why speak of requirements as if it is a burden? God designed a relationship with him in a way where it is beneficial for us. It is a privilage to worship God, and we can't even worship him on near a high enough level right now because we haven't even seen God (and even in his manifestations to people in the past he never even displayed his full glory to them - such as when Jacob wrestled with God; not in his glory, that's for sure). Moses asked for the distinct privilage of seeing God's glory, but even God denied Moses the request but settled for letting his "goodness" (hebrew tuwb) pass before him (with His back to Moses) because no one in the flesh can see God in his full glory and live because he is so glorious. We will be in eternal marvel at his glory. Do you think the angels in heaven sing "Holy! Holy! Holy!" out of compulsion? Absolutely not!

Now, everlasting respect and admiration is conceivable and would be expected from us simple human folk. But too much of anything isn't necessarily a good thing.

Do you think we're going to be sitting on some piddly cloud strumming a stupid harp in heaven? No God's glory is so amazing eternity won't be long enough to behold it all, that's why each day in eternity will not grow boring.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[Orion]

cybershark, this thread is less about our involvement and more about the recipient's character, . . . .IF those who say "we were designed for the sole purpose to worship God" are correct.

 

[cyberjosh]

cybershark, this thread is less about our involvement and more about the recipient's character, . . . .IF those who say "we were designed for the sole purpose to worship God" are correct.

I'm not quite catching your drift here. What are you trying to ask? What is your main concern right now in trying to understand this?

 

[Orion]

It's about the character of the recipient. If I did something amazing, and people patted me on the back for it continually, I would either grow tired of it, or would become very conceded. . . . thus I would say, "thank you for the wonderful compliment, sir/ma'am.", and would go on my way. If the person was my friend, and they kept on and on about it, I'd politely and respectfully say, "Really, I appreciate the compliment, but you don't need to dwell on it."

It's the "don't ever display your Humbleness Award on your wall".

 

[cyberjosh]

It's about the character of the recipient. If I did something amazing, and people patted me on the back for it continually, I would either grow tired of it, or would become very conceded. . . . thus I would say, "thank you for the wonderful compliment, sir/ma'am.", and would go on my way. If the person was my friend, and they kept on and on about it, I'd politely and respectfully say, "Really, I appreciate the compliment, but you don't need to dwell on it."

It's the "don't ever display your Humbleness Award on your wall".

How many pats on the back is salvation worth I wonder???

Gee thanks God... You're a great chum....

 

[Orion]

How many pats on the back is salvation worth I wonder???

Gee thanks God... You're a great chum....

Worthy of it for all eternity! Again, it's not about us, it is about God. What kind of relationship does God want with us at that time? I guess we'll see.

 

[Orion]

Double post.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

I'm not quite catching your drift here. ...

Ditto. It seems we have been down this road before also.

I don't have a clue what it does for God for billions of people to stand around saying "Thank You" or "Wow, you are awesome".

And the entire repentance thing? Well, I have had people tell me that they were sorry for something, and then go into detail about what they did as if they were reliving the magic moment. And mention it every chance that they got as if they wanted to remind me of what a jerk they were or how they were able to inflict some pain or suffering into my life. That sort of repentance must wear thin on God the way compliments do on Orion. I believe that is why God would love it if we were to nail the sin to the cross and leave it there.

Eh, back to the praise and worship. I was saying that I don't know what it does for God. There has been a time or two when I have done something special for someone and their gratitude really felt good, but there is no way I can relate to the sort of love, praise and worship that one receives for saving the soul of someone.

What I can tell you is what it does for me. When I am focusing on worship, telling God what an awesome God He is, thanking Him for His sacrifice, realize how He saved me from some disaster, healed some terrible or painful thing, or see the victory that He has given me over my sin, my enemies, and over death hell and the grave; well, it builds my faith. My trust. It keeps my mind stayed on Him. And when my mind is on Him and on who He is and the power that He has and the love He holds for me, my faith grows. I become more victorious. When I become more victorious, my faith grows. Well, you get the idea.

I know my Father loves to see me walk in faith and victory. I know that He delights to see me use what He has given me and know that He can trust me with it.

I have heard some fascinating things from the science realm recently. Sound has an impact on things. The talk show that I was listening to spoke of ice crystals. Ice that was formed while praise and worship and positive things were being said, had a certain shape and form. In the same study, hateful music and evil words were being spoken and the ice that was being formed while negative sounds were being made had a totally different characteristic,

Now I know that ice crystals are not a major fascination for you, but I believe that there is a principal that applies to all things. It is the same reason that the atmosphere in a bar is different from the atmosphere in a church.