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Why...?

C

ChristineES

Guest
First off, I don't any problem with nonbelievers at all posting here (atheists and agnostics), as long as they don't ridicule my faith.

What I want to ask is this: Why do you want to post here? I get the feeling that some of you are here to try and "convert" religious folks to atheism, what I can't figure out is why. Why do some of the atheists ridicule our beliefs? I thought at first that most of the atheists here were trying to understand Christianity, even if they did not believe in it; I know that there are some that do. But I don't understand why a nonbeliever would come here if he does not want to know about religion.
It would be like going to a, for example, an American Football fan site and telling the fans of football they should not ever watch it!! On my Star Trek board, we have people come on and say how stupid Star Trek is!!!!
I want to know why? Why do you care what others believe and enjoy?
 
One of many reasons:
Authority
Man wants to be the highest authority, framer of his own destiny and accountable only to his/her opinion of right and wrong.
A higher authority than man means submission to what that authority dictates. Besides, nobody likes the word "no".
Then there are those who claim a middle ground. Higher authority yes, but only to a point again dictated only by his/her opinion of right and wrong.

In short:
Denounciation of any authority other than man himself.

Pride
 
ChristineES said:
Why do you want to post here?

From the Christian point of view, I'm not scared of what non-Christians have to say. I've helped witness to a non-Christian that became Christian but I think that personal one on one evangelism is more effective.
 
ChristineES said:
...I want to know why? Why do you care what others believe and enjoy?
Hi Christine,

Your concerns are legit. I see it this way:

Psa 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

I've heard it said many times that Satan's greatest lie is convincing people that God doesn't exist. Those who partake in convincing people of the same are, in effect, doing the will of the Adversary.
 
ChristineES said:
I get the feeling that some of you are here to try and "convert" religious folks to atheism, what I can't figure out is why. Why do some of the atheists ridicule our beliefs?

2 Timothy 3:4-5 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

I'm convicted that those who allow it to go on are possibly traitors as well as those in the forum which do such things.
 
Sothenes said:
ChristineES said:
I get the feeling that some of you are here to try and "convert" religious folks to atheism, what I can't figure out is why. Why do some of the atheists ridicule our beliefs?

2 Timothy 3:4-5 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

I'm convicted that those who allow it to go on are possibly traitors as well as those in the forum which do such things.
Be careful...

We are not traitors. :sad
 
WHY

Can I ask WHY the concern? I have said before you guys should welcome us . If anything I think most of you have far more serious disagreements amongst yourselves as so called believers.For some of you your so called brethren don't rank much higher than atheists if some of the posting is to be believed. I will admit that some of the atheists here have been somewhat confrontational and I have PM'd some to advise them of the rude behavior.
Now getting back to the concern of intentionally trying to persuade a falling out of your beliefs on some of the members. If your beliefs and convictions cannot stand the test of questioning that is something that the members will have to deal with on their own.Which one of the moderators wants to censor or remove the atheists etc from here because of the fear of finding out something they would rather not know or realize? If you feel that you are vulnerable perhaps you should rethink your time you spend here. If the moderators are indeed afraid of free thinking and free expression then perhaps they should make the necessary call. If you see problems that can't in your heart be resolved , if things don't make sense to you, it's not the atheists fault if he turns on the light.You should have an answer for everything an atheist brings up and if you don't then you need to go back and ask yourself why.It seems many of the members here approach Christianity like a rancher approaches his livestock. The only concern is how many warm bodies he has. However if one is confident in their beliefs no amount of any supposed prodding is going to push one over the edge.
 
I can't be an atheist unless I know christianity. What better way than to come to a christian forum? I learn all 10000000000 kinds of christianity, all at once.

(plus, since i have been here, i have found i read alot of bible passages out of context, and my ammunition of hte bible against christianity, is a lil less armor piercing)
 
The reason that anyone goes to a board that represents thoughts they disagree with (politically, economically, religiously, etc) is generally to either start dialogue and enhance knowledge (or lessen ignorance, depending) or be a complete *explitive*. Those people don't last since they just want to troll.

There's also the level of gray that such subjects have. The number of interpretations of verses and basic understandings of the Bible outnumber the amount of practicing christians. Same for various political ideologies, and I know that there are a number of different schools of thought in econ but that subject could never hold my attention much. Being 'converted' away from, say, young earth creationism doesn't make you less of a christian, for instance. Nor does changing your mind on certain issues or legislation, blah blah blah. That's why I hang out on 'left' and 'right' wing blogs. If there isn't a devil's advocate things get dull. It's all back slapping and agreements with blinders on. Your thought process can't advance if that's the atmosphere. I know there are other people like that out there and you'll see 'em either looking out of place or in part of a mob response.

Never knew you were a trekkie. Old School, TNG or DS9? (I don't know much to chat about, I'm a Star Wars geek, just curious.)
 
Because they are not sure....

reznwerks said:
Can I ask WHY the concern? I have said before you guys should welcome us. If anything I think most of you have far more serious disagreements amongst yourselves as so called believers. For some of you your so called brethren don't rank much higher than atheists if some of the posting is to be believed. I will admit that some of the atheists here have been somewhat confrontational and I have PM'd some to advise them of the rude behavior.
Now getting back to the concern of intentionally trying to persuade a falling out of your beliefs on some of the members. If your beliefs and convictions cannot stand the test of questioning that is something that the members will have to deal with on their own. Which one of the moderators wants to censor or remove the atheists etc from here because of the fear of finding out something they would rather not know or realize? If you feel that you are vulnerable perhaps you should rethink your time you spend here. If the moderators are indeed afraid of free thinking and free expression then perhaps they should make the necessary call. If you see problems that can't in your heart be resolved, if things don't make sense to you, it's not the atheists fault if he turns on the light. You should have an answer for everything an atheist brings up and if you don't then you need to go back and ask yourself why. It seems many of the members here approach Christianity like a rancher approaches his livestock. The only concern is how many warm bodies he has. However if one is confident in their beliefs no amount of any supposed prodding is going to push one over the edge.
Why are atheists here?

Let us start with TIME. Some atheists here have been members for 2 to 3 years. They may have posted 2000 - 3000 posts. Even if an atheist takes only a few minutes each time to read and respond and then post, it means s/he has spent 200-400 hours on this Christian forum! ... and then they try and convince us that they are not here to try and shake someone's Christian belief!

Then lets look at EFFECTIVENESS. Has an atheist here ever been effective in converting anyone to his way of thinking? I do not think most atheists have had any effect on any true born-again Christian except to convince us that they have still got a lot to learn.

Then lets look at the atheist's INTENT. Most (like reznwerks above) have avoided answering the question of their intent of being here. Would you spend hours and hours, weeks and weeks.... for over two and a half years.... with people you claim to be deluded? Many of the atheist's posts ridicule Christians... but they keep coming back for more. Think about it carefully. Here is an analogy. If you considered model train building to be a childish hobby and something which people should and must grow out of, would you go and spend YEARS and 200-400 HOURS on a model train building forum debating and ridiculing and posting on the model train builders forum?

Then lets look at the atheist's LOGIC. He is an atheist. He believes (yes, he does have a belief system) that this life is all he has. His days and hours are therefore limited. Then why (logically) does he spend hours and hours and days and weeks and years around people who he thinks are deluded or not as "clever" as himself for having seen the "light" of atheism? Hardly logical at all.

Lastly, let us look at it from a Christian point of view. After all this time here, atheists have done nothing nor written anything to even remotely shake my faith. Quite the opposite. They have demonstrated that atheists have very little to offer; that atheist arguments against Christianity are shallow.

Let them post here. In my case, it strengthens my faith and reminds me of what I was once like.

:)
 
Gary, Although all the Christians on this forum Call themselves christians, Many denounce "born again" as not being the true path to christ, and Many think that YOU are not a good christian. Look at all teh members on this board that say they are christian. You would only have a select few you would call "real Christians" and that is the same way every Christian here pretty much feels (there are a few that are more tolerant)

Each sect here thinks there are onyl a few others that are really good true christians that read the bible properly.

Alot of people don't like your muslim hate, even if they refuse to come out publicly and say it.

I look at your bold letters in the statement bashing Reznworks (which i believe, is against the TOS, don't quite remember though......) and its all up to your interpretation. YOU think that his answers arent satisfying. YOU think that his views are wrong. YOU think that he isn't knowledgable. Thats basically the same thing I think about 1/2 of your posts (i wont argue with you quotting islamic scripture, cuz you do know that really well, I will however argue your interpretations of it like you argue my interpretations of the bible)

Wow, i sort of just rambled on through that. What im mainly trying to say is, Everythign you see, someone looks at you and sees the same. Are you the right one? and if so, why are you so boastfull about it? What makes your exact idealogy the perfect one, and makes every one elses wrong?

Most Christians strongest reason to believe in God, is because they know it is true in their heart. That is also why most Christians believe their view is the correct one, and others are wrong. If their view in their heart is wrong. Then their view on God may also be wrong. Hence the reasons sects hate eachother :-P
 
Re: WHY

reznwerks said:
Now getting back to the concern of intentionally trying to persuade a falling out of your beliefs on some of the members. If your beliefs and convictions cannot stand the test of questioning that is something that the members will have to deal with on their own.Which one of the moderators wants to censor or remove the atheists etc from here because of the fear of finding out something they would rather not know or realize? If you feel that you are vulnerable perhaps you should rethink your time you spend here. If the moderators are indeed afraid of free thinking and free expression then perhaps they should make the necessary call. If you see problems that can't in your heart be resolved , if things don't make sense to you, it's not the atheists fault if he turns on the light.You should have an answer for everything an atheist brings up and if you don't then you need to go back and ask yourself why.It seems many of the members here approach Christianity like a rancher approaches his livestock. The only concern is how many warm bodies he has. However if one is confident in their beliefs no amount of any supposed prodding is going to push one over the edge.[/b]

Hi Rezenworks,

Here is a crash course on Apologetics through books that I own. The reason men reject John 3:16 is that God not only confounded the wisdom of the wise because the word of God is foolishness to athiests. Its not something that can be learned but only because God revealed Himself to me which helped me accept Him. The Bible says that men agape (love) darkness so there is a devotion to darkness and no amount of pleading with people will make them accept Christianity.

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved (agape) darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

What these verses tell me is that men and women said,'no' to the light. My answers aren't greater than the light and people reject the light. That is why I gave up apologetics after learning that in favor of declaring the word for people's salvation because the Word of God saves and not our apologies. I'm not apologizing for the truth.

You seem to think that if men don't answer you then there is something wrong with Christianity but God hath chosen the foolish things to confound the wise. That is why a baby christian is chosen by God for God to reveal himself to while those who think they know will never understand because it takes a lot more than these books for you to understand how God can make it all possible for you to believe. On the basic level, only someone who is schooled in Greek and Hebrew could begin to teach you God's word but God has trained some basic Christians to be very astute in the teaching of His word. Maybe when you read all of these books would you be able to start answering skeptics questions leaving you with no time for anything else that you should be doing as a Christian making you ineffective before almighty God.

Sothenes


Archer, Gleason, L., "Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties"

Black, David, Alen, "New Testament Textual Criticism"

Bowman, Robert, M., Jr., "Orthodoxy and Heresy", a biblical guide to doctrinal discernment

Brown, "Heresies"

Bruce, F.F., "The Canon of Scripture"

Bruce, F.F., "The Defense of The Gospel in the New Testament"

Carson, "Exegetical Fallacies"

Geisler, Norman, “Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologeticsâ€Â

Geisler and Brooks, "When Skeptics Ask", a handbook on Christian evidences

Geisler and House, "The Battle For God", Responding to the Challenge of Neotheism

Geisler and Howe, "When Critics Ask", A Popular Handbook on Bible Difficulties

Haley, John W., "Alleged Discrepancies of the Bible"

Horton, Michael, "The Agony of Deceit"

Kaiser Jr, Walter C.,"The Old Testament Documents" (Are They Reliable & Relevant?)

Kaiser, Davids, Bruce and Brauch, "Hard Sayings of the Bible"

Kennedy, James, "Why I Believe"

Lightner, Robert, P., "A Biblical Case for Total Inerrancy", How Jesus Viewed the O.T.

McDowell, Josh, "A Ready Defense"

McDowell, Josh, "Daniel In the Critics' Den"

McDowell, Josh, "Evidence That Demands A Verdict", Historical Evidences For The Christian Faith, Vol 1-2

McDowell, Josh, "The Resurrection Factor"

McEowell, Josh, “The New Evidence That Demands A Verdictâ€Â, Evidence I and II

McDowell and Stewart, "Answers to Tough Questions skeptics ask about the Christian Faith"

McDowell and Stewart, "Handbook of Today's Religions"

McDowell and Stewart, "Reasons Skeptics should consider Christianity"

Moreland, J.P. "Christianity and the Nature of Science", A Philosophical Investigation

Moreland, J.P., "Scaling the Secular City", A Defense of Christianity

Muncaster, Ralph, O., "Can Archaeology Prove the New Testament?"

Muncaster, Ralph, O., "Is the Bible Really a Message from God?"

Oakland, McLean, McLean, "The Evidence For Creation", Examining the Origin of Planet Earth

Phillips, John, “Bible Explorer’s Guide†(HOW TO UNDERSTAND AND INTERPRET THE BIBLE)

Rhodes, Ron, Dr., "The Complete Book of Bible Answers", Answering the tough questions

Snyder, "Myth Conceptions", Joseph Campbell and the New Age

Sproul, R.C., "Explaining Inerrancy"

Strobel, Lee, "The Case for Christ"

Strobel, "The Case for Faith"

Wilder-Smith, A.E., "The Natural Sciences Know Nothing of Evolution"

Wilder-Smith, A.E., "The Scientific Alternative to Neo-Darwinian Evolutionary Theory: Information Sources & Structures"

Wilder-Smith, A.E., "Time Dimension"

Wilder-Smith, A.E., "Why Does God Allow It?!"

Youngblood, Ronald F., "The Book of Genesis", Second Edition, An Introductory Commentary

Youngblood, "The Genesis Debate", Persistent Questions about Creation and the Flood

Zuck, Roy B., “Basic Bible Interpretation†(A Practical Guide to Discovering Biblical Truth)
 
Great answer...

Great answer Sothenes and a wonderful set of books!

:) :)
 
Never knew you were a trekkie. Old School, TNG or DS9? (I don't know much to chat about, I'm a Star Wars geek, just curious.)

I love all the Star Treks, except Enterprise. My favorite is the original (Captain Kirk and Spock). I watched Star Trek even before I became a Christian! :roll: I also love Star Wars, especially the first 3 movies Episodes 4, 5, and 6. :-D
 
Re: WHY

Sothenes said:
[

Hi Rezenworks,

Here is a crash course on Apologetics through books that I own.

quote]

Thanks . Been there done that. In fact I have several of those within arms reach right now.I also have one or two by Lucado, Dr Bierle, Graham,(son and father) Sheldon, Charles Stanley,Hughes, and Pollock.I have just gotten rid of several years worth of "Moody" magazines and a bunch of monthlies by the Graham association. I have books on bible lists, and bible definitions. I had access to the churches library of which I was once an avid reader of such info. When you put the info to the test reality takes on a whole new perspective.
 
Not answered.... typical atheists

reznwerks, you have still not answered the original question. All you have done is babble on about why we should allow you to ask questions and question our faith.

peace4all, neither have you answered the questions.

Here are the questions again:

ChristineES said:
What I want to ask is this: Why do you want to post here? ......
I want to know why? Why do you care what others believe and enjoy?

:)
 
Re: Not answered.... typical atheists

Gary said:
reznwerks, you have still not answered the original question.

Sure I did , you just didn't understand it. By letting us post you keep yourself sharp and shows us that your are indeed a light upon the hill. How could you face God and tell him that you banned us because you were afraid your faith was not strong enough or that you feared the faith of others was not strong enough?
 
gary, I know i have not yet answered your PM, it is very long, and i have very little time atm, I will try to get to it shortly.

As for the question.

Peac4all
I can't be an atheist unless I know christianity. What better way than to come to a christian forum? I learn all 10000000000 kinds of christianity, all at once.

(plus, since i have been here, i have found i read alot of bible passages out of context, and my ammunition of hte bible against christianity, is a lil less armor piercing)

I can't hold my religous beliefs (or lack there of) with out a reason. Its like Being a Christian with out any knowledge of God, or the Bible. But saying your a Christian, because someone else you know is, and you know a few of the key points. I can't be an atheist, unless i have looked at alot of other religions. (some i don't look at because, they are alot less plausible than christianity to start with) I have been on a muslim and a hindu forum as well as this and an atheist site for a while.
 
Still not answered.... typical atheist

Gary: reznwerks, you have still not answered the original question. All you have done is babble on about why we should allow you to ask questions and question our faith.

Here are the questions again:

ChristineES said:
What I want to ask is this: Why do you want to post here? ......
I want to know why? Why do you care what others believe and enjoy?
reznwerks: Sure I did , you just didn't understand it. By letting us post you keep yourself sharp and shows us that your are indeed a light upon the hill. How could you face God and tell him that you banned us because you were afraid your faith was not strong enough or that you feared the faith of others was not strong enough?

Gary: Nope, you have still not answered the questions. I will try again.

  • Question (1): Why do you want to post here?

    Answer: ______________________________________

    Question (2): Why do you care what others believe and enjoy?

    Answer: ______________________________________

:roll: :roll: :roll:
 
Re: Not answered.... typical atheists

reznwerks said:
Gary said:
reznwerks, you have still not answered the original question.

Sure I did , you just didn't understand it. By letting us post you keep yourself sharp and shows us that your are indeed a light upon the hill. How could you face God and tell him that you banned us because you were afraid your faith was not strong enough or that you feared the faith of others was not strong enough?

There is a world of difference between a honest question and a rhetorical question meant to make Christians strive at answering simply because the question is really a statement and not a question. Promotion of athiesm or other religions is a guise and exception under the rules here as long as everyone gets along. In other words, you are a salesman of truth and not a consumer of truth so there is no reaching you and I'm wasting my time here because the system is meant to beat up on some of the Christians here.
 
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