Will a believer's 'works' determine their salvation?

[Dave Slayer]

Will a believer's 'works' (or lack of) determine their salvation? What is Biblical?

 

[Cornelius]

Is actually the way a believer RESTS in faith, in the promises that brings salvation.

Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that were disobedient?

But your question cannot be answered in a short manner. God wrote a whole Book to explain this to us in many ways. Its a combination of more than just one thing, that will bring salvation. You have to get to know the WHOLE truth, not just one part of it.

People will say: Just believe in Jesus.......... Well, yes and no.You have to believe in Jesus, that is your starting point, and then you start walking, or as Paul puts it: "Running, the race...."

Psa 119:160 The sum of thy word is truth; And every one of thy righteous ordinances endureth for ever.

 

[Lee100]

You nailed it Cornelius,
I could not agree more, Jas 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. And as the old saying goes, turn or burn is correct. You can’t work your way into heaven, rather works show you are saved by the spirit because it is the spirit that is producing the good works. It has to do with why are you doing your good works. If you are doing them to try to work your way into heaven, it won’t work. But if you are doing your good works because you love God and want to please Him, that is the right reason to do good works. Also Peter tells us to guard our faith because it is more precious than purist gold. You have to have a hunger for him in your heart. A felling of wanting to serve Him and a happiness in you that you can’t understand for explain.

 

[Cornelius]

There is another "work"
This "work" I have never been able to explain on forums. People don't want to think and just move on.

Its the "work" that your lips do, when you agree with the Word.

People do not see that as a work of faith, but it is one of the most important results of true faith. It comes out of your mouth.

It simply means that through your words, you have to tell men (this would include the unsaved) about your faith.

Example: You are believing God for healing, then you have to be bold enough to even tell unbelievers that God HAS healed you. Why HAS? Because the Bible says it happened at the cross.1Pe 2:24 who his own self bare our sins in his body upon the tree, that we, having died unto sins, might live unto righteousness; by whose stripes ye were healed.


Now this takes FAITH , because you cannot see the healing , yet God wants you to already tell people that He HAS done it. Now please try and get this: The TELLING is the WORK, that makes faith alive. Faith without this work, is dead.

 

[Drew]

People will say: Just believe in Jesus.......... Well, yes and no.You have to believe in Jesus, that is your starting point, and then you start walking, or as Paul puts it: "Running, the race...."

I agree. As Paul says here in Romans 2, "good works" do play a role in determining the final verdict:


God "will give to each person according to what he has done."[a] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

In another forum, I challenged a fellow who did not seem to think it mattered how he actually lived his life. His argument: "On the last day, I will have an advocate in Jesus Christ, so it doesn't matter what I do."

I hope he changes his mind.

 

[NooneSpecial]

No a believer's work does not determine their salvation. A wolf can wear a sheep's clothing after all.

 

[follower of Christ]

Will a believer's 'works' (or lack of) determine their salvation? What is Biblical?

James says that faith without works is dead.
His example shown is simply about someone in need of food or clothing and our knowing it but seemingly being unmoved by that need.
Can anyone who has faith in God see the starving child and NOT be moved into action where they have ability ?
Not according to James.
Faith without works is dead...
Are we born again Christians if we have no faith ?

 

[follower of Christ]

People will say: Just believe in Jesus.......... Well, yes and no.You have to believe in Jesus, that is your starting point, and then you start walking, or as Paul puts it: "Running, the race...."

I agree. As Paul says here in Romans 2, "good works" do play a role in determining the final verdict:


God "will give to each person according to what he has done."[a] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

In another forum, I challenged a fellow who did not seem to think it mattered how he actually lived his life. His argument: "On the last day, I will have an advocate in Jesus Christ, so it doesn't matter what I do."

I hope he changes his mind.

And on top of that, look at Matthew 25 and the story of the sheep and the goats.

"Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' "And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me.'
(Mat 25:37-40 EMTV)

Jesus very evidently taught that DOING is important.
And also we have ...

Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.
(Jas 4:17 EMTV)

 

[Dave Slayer]

But it's not the works all by themselves that saves us. The blood of Jesus saves us, not our works. We cannot work our way into heaven. I believe that works are a result of true faith. True believers will produce good works as a "result" of their faith, but works are never the "cause" of one's faith. There are many who call themselves believers but produce bad fruits/works. There is a good chance they are not really saved at all.

God is the author and finisher of our faith so any faith that we do have is from Him. So, God is the reason for our faith, not works.

 

[follower of Christ]

But it's not the works all by themselves that saves us.

No, not at all.
'works' are really only 'evidence' of our faith...in and of themselves works are nothing since even the unsaved do some marvelous things in life.
James really does a great job of showing us how our works evidence the faith that is inside us, but we certainly cannot rely on those works to get us anywhere with God.

I cant recall how many times Ive heard the line 'But Im a good person" and someone believes that God can be bought off with their doing something nice for someone.
Im sure that God loves mercy, no doubt about it. He loves seeing us care for each other, but that isnt all that causes us to deserve separation from God.

 

[Vic C.]

But it's not the works all by themselves that saves us. The blood of Jesus saves us, not our works. We cannot work our way into heaven. I believe that works are a result of true faith. True believers will produce good works as a "result" of their faith, but works are never the "cause" of one's faith. There are many who call themselves believers but produce bad fruits/works. There is a good chance they are not really saved at all.

God is the author and finisher of our faith so any faith that we do have is from Him. So, God is the reason for our faith, not works.

Good post Dave. But if I may... God is the reason for our faith, works AND salvation. We show the faith HE has in us and bestows upon us by reflecting it right back to the Source; it is through us HE does HIS work and because of HIS grace we achieve salvation. If the work in us is from us and not His work, it isn't even work worth mentioning. As FoC said,

I cant recall how many times Ive heard the line 'But Im a good person" and someone believes that God can be bought off with their doing something nice for someone.

Get the order straight and you will see where our "works" fit into God's redemptive Plan.

Will a believer's 'works' determine their salvation?
No.

 

[Paidion]

How do you think Paul answered this question in the following passage?

For he will render to everyone according to his works: to those who by perseverance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, he will give lasting life; but for those who are self-seeking and are not persuaded by the truth, but are persuaded by wickedness, there will be wrath and fury.

Affliction and anguish for every person who does evil ... but glory and honour and well-being for every one who does good ... For God shows no partiality. (Romans 2:6-11)

 

[NooneSpecial]

James says that faith without works is dead.
His example shown is simply about someone in need of food or clothing and our knowing it but seemingly being unmoved by that need.
Can anyone who has faith in God see the starving child and NOT be moved into action where they have ability ?
Not according to James.
Faith without works is dead...
Are we born again Christians if we have no faith ?

Never said that one did not have to work in faith. Is that not part of walking in faith? All that I implied is that good deeds are not the ticket to salvation.

 

[Joe67]

The believer in Jesus is like a seed. Seeds are planted and they die, yet they spring up from the ground. There is growth/work. Yet it is not the seed that is working, yet the seed is moving, enlarging and eventually begins to show the development of other seeds.

In the end, the seed(s) is/are harvested and threshed and stored away for use.

We are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works which were ordained before time. We are to the praise of the glory of God, the Father, by Jesus Christ. The Father planned a family. It is the true planned parenthood. Ephesians 1 and 2.

1 Cor 15:9-10
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them-yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me.
(from New International Version)

 

[Dave Slayer]

How do you think Paul answered this question in the following passage?

For he will render to everyone according to his works: to those who by perseverance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, he will give lasting life; but for those who are self-seeking and are not persuaded by the truth, but are persuaded by wickedness, there will be wrath and fury.

Affliction and anguish for every person who does evil ... but glory and honour and well-being for every one who does good ... For God shows no partiality. (Romans 2:6-11)

Neither of these verses suggest that "works alone" is necessary for salvation. Those who are true believers will have true faith and will produce good works as a result. These people will have everlasting life just like the verse says. No one can be saved apart from salvation in Christ.

Those who are not persuaded by the truth but are persuaded by evil will not attain salvation and will face God's wrath, so of course they won't produce good works. But good works in itself does not save someone. The blood of Jesus is what saves. But those who are saved by the blood of Jesus will produce good works.

It's simple. Believer's produce good works, non-believers do not. If someone claims to be a believer, there will be evidence of his good works. If one claims to be a believer but never produces good works, there is a chance he isn't saved to begin with.

 

[beardedad]

Can your good works get you into heaven? No. It is only through the saving grace of Jesus and the accepting him as lord. God don’t care if a person gives till it hurts, helps the weak and keeps every commandment, if he does not have a faith in Christ he will go to hell. Peter talked about Christ stating "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed." 1 Peter 2:24.
Christ took our sins to the cross and was the ultimate sacrifice that we as sinners can come to God knowing our sins were paid for through his death. Good works is an out showing of your faith in God.

 

[Paidion]

It's simple. Believer's produce good works, non-believers do not.

That statement is not only simple; it's naiïve.

I know dozens of non-believers who do good works, who are helpful to neighbours in need, who are generous concerning the needs of the underprivileged, who have raised good and respectful children, who are honest in business, and who love their spouse, and have remained faithful to that spouse until death.

 

[Fembot]

Even though good works would not be frowned upon by God, yes, it takes more for salvation. God lists those who will not make it through his doors.

A large part of why unbelievers may not do "good works" is because they don't have the knowledge that we (believers or not) must seek diligently. Because it's not the easiest to grasp and it can come and go if we allow ourselves to grow apart from Him.
While having faith in Christ as our Savior and using the Bible and Holy Spirit to guide us, we can assure ourselves that we are doing what we can to be saved. Only God knows who is written therein.


For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord;
--Romans 6:23

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; Not of works, lest any man should boast.
--Ephesians 2:8, 9

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
--I John 5:11-13

 

[Dave Slayer]

It's simple. Believer's produce good works, non-believers do not.

That statement is not only simple; it's naiïve.

I know dozens of non-believers who do good works, who are helpful to neighbours in need, who are generous concerning the needs of the underprivileged, who have raised good and respectful children, who are honest in business, and who love their spouse, and have remained faithful to that spouse until death.

Non believers will produce works that are useless because they are not saved. Which makes my point that works do not determine one's salvation. If someone is a genuine believer, they will produce good works but the works in themselves are not what saves. The blood of Jesus saves. :yes

In a way it is sad that many non believers are producing good works that are becoming more rare by those who call themselves believers. At least it seems that way at times.

 

[Fembot]

Non believers will produce works that are useless because they are not saved. Which makes my point that works do not determine one's salvation. If someone is a genuine believer, they will produce good works but the works in themselves are not what saves. The blood of Jesus saves. :yes

In a way it is sad that many non believers are producing good works that are becoming more rare by those who call themselves believers. At least it seems that way at times.

Very true Dave. We all have misgivings. Christian or not. What do you think is an example of works that Christians should find easier to do?