Will the Holy Spirit be removed from the earth,as in 2Thess2v7.

[Lehigh3]

by ivanm,

In the year 70 B.C.E. Pompey the Great, a powerful Roman military leader, conquered Jerusalem, the capital of Palestine. Pompey defiled the Jewish temple, killed the priests, and ordered the Jews to begin worshipping the Roman gods. Most Jews resisted, but pressure to worship the Roman gods only mounted, and as the pressure increased, so did conflict within the Jewish community. Many Jews called for open rebellion against Rome, while others argued that Jews must be willing to adapt.

I didn't just pick & choose links to read about prophecy. I studied more than 5 years when I heard the word "rapture" & millennium & anything to do with the futuristic notion of Jesus returning literally 2k+ yrs. after he promised Peter, etc, that He would gather His elect after the tribulation!

I didn't choose futuristic links- I chose to read Roman & Jewish history from the generation time involved. "this generation" was exactly that- as Jesus said- & the consummation occurred as He said- And not what the street gentile Christians afterward didn't witness NOR understand from the Jewish prophecy in Revelation also.

Nero was the "man of sin" He demanded divine honors & prerogatives of deity. And this Caesar was the 1st to persecute the Christians. "Divus" god, was inscribed on the coins & statues. The emperors of Rome exalted themselves above all that is called God, or an object of worship. Of which Nero was #1.
Pagan Rome was the corporate beast (Daniel's 4th beast)

When you note AD70- the history is that the Romans did invade the temple & defiled it before they literally burned her with fire.

That was the "eleventh" or "little horn" of Daniel 7 was Titus, Vespasian's son.

Daniel 2 notes the kingdom which had the "feet & toes" partly iron & partly clay.
Israel was the "clay " part. Israel was always called the Potter's "clay" Rome of course was the iron fist. And Israel was a puppet nation under Rome rule. (Which the Bible calls "the inhabitable world" at the time)

We see the corporate "beast" being slain in Rev.19. That is poetry how the prophecy is described in Israel's "end times"

Yup, the "abomination of desolation" was the Romans attacking Jerusalem & the temple in AD67.

Nero's power & evil hadn't yet been manifested-for Paul wrote the Thess. epistle about AD50. Nero became emperor in AD54. What Paul describes to the Thess. is a political figure that was important to them.

Anyone could be called "the man of sin" if they were considered evil- but in Paul's time he was speaking secret information so as not to be silenced too early in his mission.

"The Parousia" is worth reading. It's some 600 pages, thick like the "works of Josephus," but it is worth the read.

I hope I can help you more with your studies & understanding of fulfilled prophecy.

 

[Sinthesis]

How could ''Nero'' be the man of sin,he never sat in the Temple of God.
As in 2Thess2v4.
Which also means that Claudius couldn't have been the restrainer.
So the prophecy is still to come to pass at some time in the future.

God bless.....Ivanm

Nope.....It just means Lehigh3 doesn't have the identities correctly assigned.

 

[Lehigh3]

Nope.....It just means Lehigh3 doesn't have the identities correctly assigned.

OR it just means Sinthesis can't accept that I may be right!!

 

[ivanm]

Thank you lehigh3
For trying to educate me on matters of prophecy.
But i repeat my question!
When did Nero sit in the jewish Temple.
I have found no proof of any such event under Nero.

God bless...ivanm

 

[Lehigh3]

Thank you lehigh3
For trying to educate me on matters of prophecy.
But i repeat my question!
When did Nero sit in the jewish Temple.
I have found no proof of any such event under Nero.

God bless...ivanm

Well, that is too literal. To sit "in the temple like he is God" is an expression from a Jewish fellow, Paul, that it is a Caesar & he will demand divine worship AS if he were God.
Nero & the pagan Romans believed Christianity was a branch off of Judaism (which it was) & they were both hated, beginning with the Christians. When the persecution occurred on the Christians (Nero used them as a scapegoat for the fire in Rome AD64) At that time many Jewish Christians apostatized from the faith back to Judaism. After a few years the Jews rebelled against Rome in military fashion. Nero ordered & initiated the Roman/Jewish war directions to Vespasian (then military commander) to destroy the Jews.
Christians(including Hebrew Christians) left the city (Jerusalem) as Jesus warned in Mt.24. View attachment 1813

Mainly the Jews could not buy or sell or trade
from the temple unless they worshiped Caesar. (thoughts & works- forehead & hand) The "mark of the beast" is about as literal as "the seal" on believers.

 

[ivanm]

Paul meant it to be literal,it's an important bit of future prophecy.
Concerning the Anti-christ and the Tribulation Temple.

In our day and age we have invented micro chips that can be inserted under the skin.
Laser etching that can be put on a person,only to be seen under ultra-violet light,we have the way and the means to implement these things,Nero did not.
Opinions on 666: The Mark of the Beast?

 

[Lehigh3]

Paul meant it to be literal,it's an important bit of future prophecy.
Concerning the Anti-christ and the Tribulation Temple.

In our day and age we have invented micro chips that can be inserted under the skin.
Laser etching that can be put on a person,only to be seen under ultra-violet light,we have the way and the means to implement these things,Nero did not.
Opinions on 666: The Mark of the Beast?

Actually, that sounds very delusional to me, sorry.:shocked!
Paul would have been killed much earlier if he was to be literal & name names under Caesar.
I tried to reason & show you more "good news" - but it is obviously a waste of time.
God Bless.

 

[Sinthesis]

OR it just means Sinthesis can't accept that I may be right!!

Nope..... I was just pointing out that if Lehigh3's interpretation could be shown to be wrong (and it is), then that doesn't have to mean that he prophecy is still to come to pass at some time in the future. It could just be that the prophecy has been fulfilled in another way.:yes

 

[Sinthesis]

Nero & the pagan Romans believed Christianity was a branch off of Judaism (which it was) & they were both hated, beginning with the Christians. When the persecution occurred on the Christians (Nero used them as a scapegoat for the fire in Rome AD64) At that time many Jewish Christians apostatized from the faith back to Judaism. After a few years the Jews rebelled against Rome in military fashion. Nero ordered & initiated the Roman/Jewish war directions to Vespasian (then military commander) to destroy the Jews. Christians(including Hebrew Christians) left the city (Jerusalem) as Jesus warned in Mt.24. View attachment 2020

The above is spot on.

Well, that is too literal. To sit "in the temple like he is God" is an expression from a Jewish fellow, Paul, that it is a Caesar & he will demand divine worship AS if he were God. Mainly the Jews could not buy or sell or trade from the temple unless they worshiped Caesar. (thoughts & works- forehead & hand) The "mark of the beast" is about as literal as "the seal" on believers.

This stuff is not so correct, largely because you've inserted Caesar where he doesn't belong. However, the 'mark of the beast' is as you imply not a physical mark.

 

[Who Says]

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way. 2Thess2v7.

And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: Joel 2v28.

"'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. Acts 2v17.

God bless...Ivanm

Where I see the error being made is that some of us think the earth is the focus of 2 Thess chapter two but it is not. The focus is the church. And it is the fleshly visible church that is talked about here: 2 Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

The reason many do not see what I have said there is they focus on the temple that was in fleshly Jerusalem and that keeps them distracted from learning what the true temple of God is.

It is not our individual bodies, either. It is what is described at Ephesians 2: 18-22.

That temple of Eph 2: 18-22 is actually what is being spoken of in many places where people confuse the scripture to be speaking of our individual bodies as the temple of God.

The reason people make that mistake is because they do not understand the function of plural and singular pronouns in the NT. Yet most of you who have a AKJV (Not an NKJV which lost this feature) can read about this in its preface.

In the KJV The pronouns thee, thy, thou, and thine are always singular Greek pronouns in the Greek original Biblical text. Whereas you, ye, and your in the KJV are always plural pronouns in the Greek original Biblical text.

So when you read the word you or ye or your in the KJV you know the author is speaking not to the individual but to the group as one body. And that one body of Christ is the temple.

I could tell you much more about this all of which would prove that our individual body cannot be God's temple but only a part of it as it is sanctified as holy with Christ's body so that the HS can come into Christ's body of fleshly believers but I will not go into that for now so as to keep this short.

Babylon the Great of Revelation 17 and 18 is the corrupted church, the spirit taken away from it.

That does not mean Christ's body on this earth has failed. The ten virgins of Matthew 25, the five foolish are that corrupted church. But the other five are still here. They have separated from the foolish ones though.

I know exactly what the Strong Delusion is too. It is all assertainable.

 

[farouk]

How can Joel 2 be talking about the church, when the church is a mystery revealed in the New Testament?

 

[Lehigh3]

by Sinthesis,

This stuff is not so correct, largely because you've inserted Caesar where he doesn't belong. However, the 'mark of the beast' is as you imply not a physical mark.

How about I be specific bc my "Epistle" won't get me killed for naming "the man of sin?"
Neron Caesar (666-Hebrew gematria) is the specific Caesar that would come to power a couple of years after & when the great fire in Rome (AD64) would occur- that is when Nero would be revealed as "the man of sin" & torture & kill the Christians in arenas just for sick entertainment. He killed his wives, mother, etc.
He hated his mother even though she planned the "mystery of iniquity" in the 1st place by marrying & poisoning Claudius (& his heir) just to have Nero become emperor.
At least you find 2Thess.2 in the 1st century though. That is the main issue- that we today are not looking for him after 2,000 yrs!

 

[Nathan]

Where I see the error being made is that some of us think the earth is the focus of 2 Thess chapter two but it is not. The focus is the church. And it is the fleshly visible church that is talked about here: 2 Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

The reason many do not see what I have said there is they focus on the temple that was in fleshly Jerusalem and that keeps them distracted from learning what the true temple of God is.

It is not our individual bodies, either. It is what is described at Ephesians 2: 18-22.

That temple of Eph 2: 18-22 is actually what is being spoken of in many places where people confuse the scripture to be speaking of our individual bodies as the temple of God.

The reason people make that mistake is because they do not understand the function of plural and singular pronouns in the NT. Yet most of you who have a AKJV (Not an NKJV which lost this feature) can read about this in its preface.

In the KJV The pronouns thee, thy, thou, and thine are always singular Greek pronouns in the Greek original Biblical text. Whereas you, ye, and your in the KJV are always plural pronouns in the Greek original Biblical text.

So when you read the word you or ye or your in the KJV you know the author is speaking not to the individual but to the group as one body. And that one body of Christ is the temple.

I could tell you much more about this all of which would prove that our individual body cannot be God's temple but only a part of it as it is sanctified as holy with Christ's body so that the HS can come into Christ's body of fleshly believers but I will not go into that for now so as to keep this short.

Babylon the Great of Revelation 17 and 18 is the corrupted church, the spirit taken away from it.

That does not mean Christ's body on this earth has failed. The ten virgins of Matthew 25, the five foolish are that corrupted church. But the other five are still here. They have separated from the foolish ones though.

I know exactly what the Strong Delusion is too. It is all ascertainable.

Do speak of the Strong Delusion. You speak well of the other parts, so I believe this would lend to building the case for the facts already presented.

 

[Who Says]

How can Joel 2 be talking about the church, when the church is a mystery revealed in the New Testament?

Well it was certainly not a mystery to the Holy Spirit who inspired the writers and the prophets of the OT.

And anyway, the mystery if you want to call it that is not what you see as the visible church, but it would be this: Romans 8:19 "For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God."

In the visible churches we see many who are walking around already claiming to be those "sons of God" before its time to be revealed which ones really are and who are really not.

The sons of God would not need revealing but for what I told you about those virgins and Babylon the Great.

And really it is great wisdom on God's part to allow Satan to promote that counterfeit body (or more correctly I should say kingdom) of Christ (Babylon the Great) as it obscures the true son's of God from the eyes of this wicked world wherein men would otherwise kill them before they had a chance to mature in Christ.

What is the end of that army in Joel 2?

Joel 2:20 "But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things."

The things you see that army of locusts doing are consuming the (spiritual)nourishment away from everyone. It is all the many preachers that only think they are commissioned of Christ as his preachers but have not his spirit to make them holy so that the Father's spirit is able to dwell among them and inspire upon them as individuals.

Joel 2:3 "A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them."

In other words before they get to it the land is as God intended it but when they leave it they leave it spiritually dead.

But God is allowing it for the purpose causing a humbling and a repentence among those who truly do love him.

Now, from this you should be getting closer already to seeing that these ones are indeed the promoters of the Strong Delusion. So it is what they teach and point people to believe in that is the Strong Delusion. And people join into that army of spiritually dead believers believing the lie that they are Christ's church. The depth of the Delusion and the complicated web of lies that actually comprise it and give it its strength to become so binding upon men is considerable.

 

[Who Says]

Do speak of the Strong Delusion. You speak well of the other parts, so I believe this would lend to building the case for the facts already presented.

I gave it a good start in what I told farouk there.

For now I will rest a moment there.

But you might share with them what we discussed about Galatians and the ten Virgins and Revelation.

Talking about the identifying marks of who these five foolish virgins are is a very sensitive subject.

I have to prayerfully consider whether I should speak too in depth about it right now.

I have already gotten JW's mad at me in just what I have said as they teach that they are the locusts of Joel 2.

It would be a mistake to conclude that alone proves that they are and I encourage everyone to resist doing that by exercising love.

 

[Nathan]

I gave it a good start in what I told farouk there.

For now I will rest a moment there.

But you might share with them what we discussed about Galatians and the ten Virgins and Revelation.

Talking about the identifying marks of who these five foolish virgins are is a very sensitive subject.

I have to prayerfully consider whether I should speak too in depth about it right now.

I have already gotten JW's mad at me in just what I have said as they teach that they are the locusts of Joel 2.

It would be a mistake to conclude that alone proves that they are and I encourage everyone to resist doing that by exercising love.

I would love to, but quite honestly I would rather not. I am not a student of prophecy. It is just something I have not really been led to do. I know the 'general' picture, but I do not teach it at all. Maybe some day He will bring me there.

I do enjoy reading about it, when its not crazy stuff. I am very competent in the study, and always check things out when I read them. So if you would, I just would like to be a question asker for the most part on this.

 

[Elijah674]

Acts 2

[19] Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, [when] the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
[20] And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:.
(An absolute necesisity just before Christ comes again!)

OK: 'i' see this with Joel 2 + Acts 2 along with what is called the latter RAIN of the Holy Ghost's harvest of soul's! Joel 3:13-17!!

Each time of Early Rain & Latter Rain, O.T & N.T. it was a closing & start of a extended new fold. From Old Israel to Acts 2's New Israel & from New Israel's again Fatal Flopp of Rev. 17:1-5 along with Rev. 3:16 Spewed out ones ALL making the Rev. 3:9 synagogue of satan once again! (Ecc. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15)

We are now into the times of refreshing's final Day of Atonement (or very very close) We see Matt. 24:22 taking place before our very eyes! We also SEE the Holy Spirit being Grieved & Quenched away as in the pre/flood days.. and that is for well past any 120 years of His STRIVING with these above lost ones as a church fold. And we also see the Holy Spirit Moving upon His Very own that are truely surrendering it ALL TO CHRIST!

And as the pre/history of Christs day of the Early Rain of the Holy Spirit, there was only a Remnant that His Showering Fell upon. And so it is to be today in Christ's Final Atonement. Take note of Lev. 16's 'Seven Spots' of Blood being applied to in the Most Holy Place before the Ark & upon the Mercy Seat!Representing Christ last Priestly Work before His return to earth & His Priestly Work being Finished. And we are told that He brings His REWARD with Him. See Rev. 22:12-14 & who it is that will be saved!

Also note that when the Holy Spirit has been seen in His fullness of outpouring showers, that MATURITY MUST BE REACHED! Or Acts 5 will follow.

So the answer is.. The Holy Spirit will find ALL OF these Lost one to the point of MATURE REBELLION, to where He just CANNOT BUDGE THEM! Isa. 5:4 + Matt. 12:31-32