With gas this low I don't care how it smells

[stovebolts]

I would agree with that to an extent, but the Saudi's are in Washingtons' pocket. We control global politics by manipulating Saudi oil output, essentially paying them to produce what serves our political agendas. That's why I wondered if this is our way of putting the squeeze on oil producing Putin. But I agree that the Saudi's do have room to protect their own intrests, too.

I don't understand that. How do we manipulate Saudi's oil output in a global market?

]Well, I'd hate to see Chevy disappear, but they sure aren't the company they have been in past decades. I haven't been there, but I'm pretty sure there's a Chevy small block at the center of the earth keeping things spinning. I heard that at just the right angle you can see a Chevy bowtie on earth from space.

GM isn't going anywhere and your right, they aren't the same company as they were in past decades. They are better, and getting better.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No kidding!
Not only OTR trucks, but also your local delivery trucks and yes, even Rail relies on diesel.
Diesel used to always be way less than gasoline. An old timer once told me that diesel was the "cheap" gas because it wasn't refined as much as 'regular' gasoline. I always kinda looked at it like crunchy peanut butter. It takes more grinding to have a purely smooth peanut butter but if you don't grind it all up and leave some crunch in there... shouldn't it be cheaper lol!

I think it started with the Volkswagon Rabbit right around the Iran hostage situation when gas prices soared to <ahem> 75¢ a gallon. The diesel version got 50 miles to the gallon. It didn't take too many years before big business took all the profits out of that dream come true.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I don't understand that. How do we manipulate Saudi's oil output in a global market?

We tell the Saudi's what we want their production to be. In return we supply them military hardware to keep them safe from their <ahem> 'brothers'.

GM isn't going anywhere and your right, they aren't the same company as they were in past decades. They are better, and getting better.

Next thing you'll be telling me you're OSAS.

 

[stovebolts]

Not necessarily. Chip makers reduce expenses on a regular basis, which enables them to make iPads and such affordable, while still making a profit. Similarly, machines made farming efficient so that farmers could sell food at affordable prices, and still make a profit. More efficient production methods allow inexpensive prices at a profit.

If you reduce expenses through innovation and you can drop your prices but either maintain or increase your profit, that isnt' deflation. It's a competitive edge.

Inflation is mostly a bank bailout that is counter productive for the ordinary person. Notice that the bank does not send newly printed money to Joe average's bank account, to compensate him for inflation. Printing is being used to redistribute purchasing power from Joe average to financial sector players. Banks borrow newly printed money at ZIRP, and then collect interest on it by buying bonds with it. Hedge fund managers borrow millions of newly printed dollars at ZIRP, and use it to place bets on stocks, commodities, etc... Meanwhile, Joe average can buy fewer goods at the store with his paycheck/pension. Printing is being used as a reverse Robin Hood scheme, that takes from the poor/elderly, and gives to rich financial sector players.

I don't know that I agree or disagree with that. What is ZIRP?
I do know that the rich keep getting richer and the poor get poorer.... And the middle class is sold on the idea that they have to have everything now and don't worry about being in debt because it's all about having a high credit score.

I'm solvent and loving it... Credit isnt' all everyone thinks it is. Actually, it's a trap to keep you in debt and it cost's you money that you could be using yourself. Imagine that, paying somebody to keep yourself in debt. Boy are we stupid...

 

[Jethro Bodine]

GM isn't going anywhere and your right, they aren't the same company as they were in past decades. They are better, and getting better.

You mean my rubber duckie key ring holder won't shut the ignition off at 50 MPH in a hard curve anymore? And when/if the air bag deploys it won't spray me with WWII style shrapnel?

 

[stovebolts]

I think it started with the Volkswagon Rabbit right around the Iran hostage situation when gas prices soared to <ahem> 75¢ a gallon. The diesel version got 50 miles to the gallon. It didn't take too many years before big business took all the profits out of that dream come true.

Wow... I actually kind of remember that.... lol What did the gasoline Beetle get? Wasn't it close to 50 mph too?

 

[Michael74]

No, what will happen is business will see this as a profit taking time. It will go right into their coffers. And the long overdue raises business owes workers will be the extra money the workers have from the lower gas.

That would be the case, if there were no competition. However, businesses must compete with others in a free market. If business A will not reduce prices when manufacturing becomes more efficient, a competitor will and take away all of A's business. When there is no printing, improvements in manufacturing result in Joe average being able to buy more goods with his paycheck/pension. With printing, bankers reap the rewards when businesses become more efficient, and Joe average goes backward.

A generation ago, one average paycheck could support a family. Now it takes two average paychecks. Printing is moving the average person backward, even as robots make manufacturing more efficient. Meanwhile, the financial sector has become fabulously wealthy.

Try loaning Joe average a few billion newly printed dollars at ZIRP, and let Joe collect millions in interest by buying bonds with it. Joe would then become wealthy instead of bankers.

 

[stovebolts]

You mean my rubber duckie key ring holder won't shut the ignition off at 50 MPH in a hard curve anymore? And when/if the air bag deploys it won't spray me with WWII style shrapnel?

Nope. don't expect that kind of crap coming out of any of the Big 3 anymore.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Not necessarily. Chip makers reduce expenses on a regular basis, which enables them to make iPads and such affordable, while still making a profit. Similarly, machines made farming efficient so that farmers could sell food at affordable prices, and still make a profit. More efficient production methods allow inexpensive prices at a profit.

Inflation is mostly a bank bailout that is counter productive for the ordinary person. Notice that the bank does not send newly printed money to Joe average's bank account, to compensate him for inflation. Printing is being used to redistribute purchasing power from Joe average to financial sector players. Banks borrow newly printed money at ZIRP, and then collect interest on it by buying bonds with it. Hedge fund managers borrow millions of newly printed dollars at ZIRP, and use it to place bets on stocks, commodities, etc... Meanwhile, Joe average can buy fewer goods at the store with his paycheck/pension. Printing is being used as a reverse Robin Hood scheme, that takes from the poor/elderly, and gives to rich financial sector players.

Those scurvey dogs.

 

[eddif]

I can't believe people are buying more gas guzzlers just because gas is low right now.

Again.
If you sell more gasoline you drive up diesel price. The gasoline consumption forces using diesel as a feedstock for gasoline production. Then going to thicker hydrocarbons ( longer chain hydrocarbons are cracked into diesel) for diesel production drives diesel price up.

There are no moderate size diesel powered pickups. There are few diesel car options . Most of the pollution issues (IMHO) have been solved for diesels. Europe has diesels .

I better shut up.

eddif

 

[stovebolts]

We tell the Saudi's what we want their production to be. In return we supply them military hardware to keep them safe from their <ahem> 'brothers'.


Next thing you'll be telling me you're OSAS.

OSAS? Me? Really?

Meca is in the heart of Saudi Arabia... I just don't understand the middle east and how the relationship works between Saudi Arabia and the rest of their region. With all the terror groups, why wouldn't they turn against Saudi Arabia if Saudi Arabia is sharing the same bed with the USA? I mean, look what the radicals did in Iraq and wha they tried to do in Israel. I've never heard of one terror attack in Saudi Arabia.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Nope. don't expect that kind of crap coming out of any of the Big 3 anymore.

Aw! Somebody's always taking the thrill out of driving these days.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

OSAS? Me? Really?

Meca is in the heart of Saudi Arabia... I just don't understand the middle east and how the relationship works between Saudi Arabia and the rest of their region. With all the terror groups, why wouldn't they turn against Saudi Arabia if Saudi Arabia is sharing the same bed with the USA? I mean, look what the radicals did in Iraq and wha they tried to do in Israel. I've never heard of one terror attack in Saudi Arabia.

It's complicated, isn't it. But the reality is, Saudi Arabia is our foothold in the middle east.

 

[stovebolts]

Again.
If you sell more gasoline you drive up diesel price. The gasoline consumption forces using diesel as a feedstock for gasoline production. Then going to thicker hydrocarbons ( longer chain hydrocarbons are cracked into diesel) for diesel production drives diesel price up.

There are no moderate size diesel powered pickups. There are few diesel car options . Most of the pollution issues (IMHO) have been solved for diesels. Europe has diesels .

I better shut up.

eddif

ding ding ding! Light bulb just came on for me! Thank you!
More demand for gasoline means less diesel because more oil is refined past the diesel state?
Wait... if we're not in an oil shortage, why not just set aside more diesel?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

OSAS? Me? Really?

Just checking.

 

[Michael74]

If you reduce expenses through innovation and you can drop your prices but either maintain or increase your profit, that isnt' deflation. It's a competitive edge....

If you lower your prices, that is CPI deflation to the average person. Use whatever definition you want, but lower prices at the store allow Joe average to buy additional goods with his paycheck/pension. Whether you define it as deflation or cost savings, lower CPI prices are good for the average person.

What is ZIRP?

ZIRP is zero interest rate policy. Banks can borrow newly printed money at essentially no interest.

Imagine that, paying somebody to keep yourself in debt.

But that is exactly what bankers do when they print. Printing confiscates some of the goods that Joe average produces, and then bankers lend those same goods back to Joe. Joe gets into additional debt each year, and pays interest to bankers on the very items that Joe produced in the first place.

Printing is counter productive for the average person. Our ancestors used a gold standard to protect themselves from printing.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

A generation ago, one average paycheck could support a family. Now it takes two average paychecks.

This single fact is why I now defend very little of the 'righteous' right wing agenda in America. I'll take Obama's gimme's as long as the right does nothing to make a one income 40 hour a week paycheck able to raise a family.

 

[stovebolts]

It's complicated, isn't it. But the reality is, Saudi Arabia is our foothold in the middle east.

So if this is true...
Why would Saudi Arabia be able to increase production to put US oil production out of business if our government really has that much sway?
Seems to me we would want to get out of bed with them. Imagine the USA free from their oil. Do you have any idea how much money and resources we put into "protecting" our precious oil in the middle east? Imagine half that amount being spent on renewable and sustainable energy sources right here on our very own continent?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Whether you define it as deflation or cost savings, lower CPI prices are good for the average person.

I noticed I 'taint got no problem with it!

 

[stovebolts]

This single fact is why I now defend very little of the 'righteous' right wing agenda in America. I'll take Obama's gimme's as long as the right does nothing to make a one income 40 hour a week paycheck able to raise a family.

I'm actually coming around to that kind of thinking...
We need stay at home Mom's to raise the kids (I've always believed in this)... Dropping them off at daycare at 3 months and never really having that solid relationship is screwing up our kids. No wonder why we are the #1 country for drug addiction, depression and anxiety disorders...