Witnessing to the Archbishop of Canterbury

[jgb321]

About this time last year one of our ministry associates, had the unique opportunity to meet and witness to Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury.

This is her account of that day:

http://www.excatholicsforchrist.com/art ... =rowan.htm

 

[JM]

Steve, what did you think?

 

[kiwimac]

You do, of course, realise that ArchBishop Williams is an ordained minister of the Church, that he is a saved child of God. Or do you not accept that Anglicans are saved?

 

[kiwimac]

You do, of course, realise that ArchBishop Williams is an ordained minister of the Church, that he is a saved child of God. Or do you not accept that Anglicans are saved?

Rev. Ray McIntyre,
Priest
Anglican Church International

 

[Oscar3]

You do, of course, realise that ArchBishop Williams is an ordained minister of the Church, that he is a saved child of God. Or do you not accept that Anglicans are saved?

Rev. Ray McIntyre,
Priest
Anglican Church International

The bible says that you will know them by their fruits. In this case he is a fruit. None the less, it is not possible to be a child of God and be an Anglican priest or Bishop. I do believe some of the people who attend ''could '' be saved, but no way the leadership.

3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia-remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. 5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.

Here Paul is saying in not these exact words something to this effect.
3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia-remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. (in other words, be careful of the anglican church international because they teach that it is ok to be a homosexual and be a pastor or priest or bishop of the church. Abortion on demand is also OK, because they are liberals. This is what liberals believe.)5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith , 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.
(Yes in other words, Timothy. Love the sinner; not the sin. Do not be like This Anglican church international not only welcomes the sin, they embrace it with their ultraliberal false theology)

Then paul Goes on to Tell Timothy
4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

In other words
4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, and all the other preist, bishops, false tachers of the anglican church, because some of the demonic doctrine they teach is that it is ok,(ok for men to have sex with men)3 forbidding to marry(unless it is a man marring another man or a women marring another women), and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
(in other words timothy, these anglicans are teaching contrary to the scriptures)

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8 Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, 9 holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. 10 But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless. 11 Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.


8 Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, 9 holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. 10 But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless( unless you are an angglican preist then anything goes, there is no such thing as sin). 11 Likewise, their wives (Who's wives? oh yes mary and ann)must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons be the husbands of one wife (You mean husbands you must be husbands of one husband if your an anglican preist), ruling their children and their own houses well (no need to worry here, adam and steve will have a hard time producing kids as will mary and ann). 13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. ( In other words, the Anglican church international worships another Jesus, not the one contained in the 66 books of the bible)

 

[Oscar3]

You do, of course, realise that ArchBishop Williams is an ordained minister of the Church, that he is a saved child of God. Or do you not accept that Anglicans are saved?

Rev. Ray McIntyre,
Priest
Anglican Church International

Lets continue

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Priest
Let me give you a bible lesson that I learned here right in this site.
The word commit in the Greek means living/habitual/commiting. In other words, since you have accepted the sin of porneia (pornogrophy) as normal and you are living in sin; and according to this scripture you are of the devil.

So yes you are a preist, but not of God. Jesus said you are with me or your against me, So priest, if you are not of Jesus then you are of the devil as the scriptures condem you.

 

[Oscar3]

You do, of course, realise that ArchBishop Williams is an ordained minister of the Church, that he is a saved child of God. Or do you not accept that Anglicans are saved?

Rev. Ray McIntyre,
Priest
Anglican Church International

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

Priest
What do you do with this scriptue. Do you tear it out of your bible or does the anglican church have bibles with out chapter 1 in them?

 

[kiwimac]

The bible says that you will know them by their fruits. In this case he is a fruit. None the less, it is not possible to be a child of God and be an Anglican priest or Bishop. I do believe some of the people who attend ''could '' be saved, but no way the leadership.

Ah, Bigotry, how I love it <sarcasm off>

Show me from the Bible how it is that alone of all folk, Anglican Clergy cannot be saved?

Then you warble:

(in other words, be careful of the anglican church international because they teach that it is ok to be a homosexual and be a pastor or priest or bishop of the church. Abortion on demand is also OK, because they are liberals. This is what liberals believe.)

Homosexuals, whether you will it or not, are children of God for whom christ died, while the jury is out on whether or not homosexuality is genetic or not, it is the RIGHT thing to do to act as if it were. And I'm glad to see that your prejudice against the ACI / ECUSA also applies to liberal who apparently all support abortion on demand. Please show the studies which support this.

Then you really do lose whatever portion of the plot you say you have because you post LEGALLY ACTIONABLE MATERIAL, which I'm sure the administrators of this site will thank you for.

( In other words be careful of the Anglican priest whos name is Ray and all the other preist, bishops, false tachers of the anglican church, because some of the demonic doctrine they teach is that it is ok, for men to have sex with animals

Please show me where I or any other Anglican cleric say beastiality is ok. If you cannot, I give you 24 hours to retract this statement and remove it or I will take legal action against both you personally and this site.

Rev. Ray McIntyre,
Priest
Anglican Church International


Rev. Ray McIntyre,
Priest
Anglican Church International

 

[Oscar3]

You do, of course, realise that ArchBishop Williams is an ordained minister of the Church, that he is a saved child of God. Or do you not accept that Anglicans are saved?

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Priest
According to the scriptures, you and your sect is in trouble as you will not inherit the Kingdom of God

 

[kiwimac]

Please show me where I or any other Anglican cleric say beastiality is ok. If you cannot, I give you 24 hours to retract this statement and remove it or I will take legal action against both you personally and this site.

 

[JM]

I'd say the Gospel is extremely restricted in the Anglican Church. That said, one of my best online friends is Anglican and saved...[he tends to be a hyper calvinist at times but oh well.]

I have to ask about [anti] Bishop Spong who you/Anglicans are in communion with. Why has he not been defrocked? The guy isn't just a wayward minister in some back water Church, he's a Bishop for goodness sake, and you as an Anglican are in communion with him.

jm

 

[Oscar3]

Please show me where I or any other Anglican cleric say beastiality is ok. If you cannot, I give you 24 hours to retract this statement and remove it or I will take legal action against both you personally and this site.

Please.
I must admit that even I went overboard with that statement and I appologize for that. Not because of your threat, because quite frankly, it means nothing to me. I know my rights very well, and there is nothing in the world that you can do about it. I really did go over on that one. I should have used the word porneia.

Here is the greek word where we get the word pornogrophy from.

4202 πορνεία [porneia /por·ni·ah/] n f. From 4203; TDNT 6:579; TDNTA 918; GK 4518; 26 occurrences; AV translates as “fornication†26 times. 1 illicit sexual intercourse. 1a adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc. 1b sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18. 1c sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12. 2 metaph. the worship of idols. 2a of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols.

I took this off another thread here. Take a close look at what this single word means. So even though I used the word animal which offended you, paul is basically telling you or anybody who practices this the same thing.

It is a serious sin.

 

[kiwimac]

One of the values of the Anglican Tradition is that it allows breadth of thought. Jack Spong is a retired Bishop, effectively nothing more than a parishioner albeit a parishioner who writes interesting books.

As he is retired his is no longer required by vows to support the central tenets of the ECUSA. Besides which, while he's a member we know where he is :D

I don't, BTW, agree that the Gospel is extremely restricted in the ECUSA or the ACI, for that matter. We simply focus differently from Baptists and the like.

Rev. Ray McIntyre,
Priest
Anglican Church International

 

[kiwimac]

Please.
I must admit that even I went overboard with that statement and I appologize for that. Not because of your threat, because quite frankly, it means nothing to me. I know my rights very well, and there is nothing in the world that you can do about it. I really did go over on that one. I should have used the word porneia.

Here is the greek word where we get the word pornogrophy from.

4202 πορνεία [porneia /por·ni·ah/] n f. From 4203; TDNT 6:579; TDNTA 918; GK 4518; 26 occurrences; AV translates as “fornication” 26 times. 1 illicit sexual intercourse. 1a adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc. 1b sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18. 1c sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12. 2 metaph. the worship of idols. 2a of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols.

I took this off another thread here. Take a close look at what this single word means. So even though I used the word animal which offended you, paul is basically telling you or anybody who practices this the same thing.

It is a serious sin.

Actually friend, I can do a considerable amount with your post. It breaks both US Libel laws and the NZ equivalent and it is posted publically which means it breaks international law as well. Both you and the Site can be sued over it.

However, if you will remove the remark from the original post and apologise publically, I will accept that. Once you have done that we might perhaps discuss porneia but not until then.

 

[JM]

One of the values of the Anglican Tradition is that it allows breadth of thought. Jack Spong is a retired Bishop, effectively nothing more than a parishioner albeit a parishioner who writes interesting books.

As he is retired his is no longer required by vows to support the central tenets of the ECUSA. Besides which, while he's a member we know where he is :D

I don't, BTW, agree that the Gospel is extremely restricted in the ECUSA or the ACI, for that matter. We simply focus differently from Baptists and the like.

Rev. Ray McIntyre,
Priest
Anglican Church International

John Shelby Spong actively pressed the issue of gay marriage, etc. when he was a Bishop. He still wears the dog collar and just did a debate with Dr. James White [www.aomin.org]. If I'm not mistaken, he's on his fourth wife and was remarried while a Bishop.

At least the ArchBishop fought back a little: http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/13880.htm

It pains me to read that your Archbishop still refers to Spong as a Bishop of the Christian Church.

:smt078

 

[JM]

I looked up the ACI on Anglicansonline.org and found that you are a not in communion with the Anglican Church world wide.

:robot:

 

[Oscar3]

Actually friend, I can do a considerable amount with your post. It breaks both US Libel laws and the NZ equivalent and it is posted publically which means it breaks international law as well. Both you and the Site can be sued over it.

However, if you will remove the remark from the original post and apologise publically, I will accept that. Once you have done that we might perhaps discuss porneia but not until then.

Like I said, it does not scare me one bit.
Like I said, I changed / edited my original post. Go back and look and I did appologize. Like I said, that was even to much for me and I let the flesh get the better of me.

 

[kiwimac]

Like I said, it does not scare me one bit.
Like I said, I changed / edited my original post. Go back and look and I did appologize. Like I said, that was even to much for me and I let the flesh get the better of me.

Oscar, this is the change you made

( In other words be careful of the Anglican priest whos name is Ray and all the other preist, bishops, false tachers of the anglican church, because some of the demonic doctrine they teach is that it is ok,(ok for men to have sex with men)

I consider it an appalling apology but I suppose it is better than none. You might also consider VERY STRONGLY not mentioning people by name when you argue that they are evil. It is both bad manners and perilously close to disobeying Jesus command not to slander your brother in Christ.

Rev. Ray McIntyre,
Priest
Anglican Church International

 

[Oscar3]

Anglican / Episcopal Church:
Revolt under way within Episcopal church
Reuters, UK
July 1, 2006
Jim Christie
today.reuters.com
• Anglican / Episcopal Church news tracker & news archive • Article Tools

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ReligionNewsBlog.com • Item 15127 • Posted: Sunday July 2, 2006

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SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Six conservative Episcopalian bishops opposed to the liberal drift in the U.S. branch of the Anglican Communion are asking for a trial separation, a move hinting at an eventual divorce over irreconcilable differences, some analysts say.

The bishops of the dioceses for Pittsburgh, Fort Worth, Texas, South Carolina, Central Florida, Springfield, Illinois, and San Joaquin, California, appealed this past week to Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams to be assigned somebody other than Katharine Jefferts Schori as their leader.

Conservative Episcopalians say Schori, presiding bishop-elect of the Episcopal Church, would continue to steer the church away from its traditional teachings. She backs church blessings of gay relationships and voted to confirm Gene Robinson, the Episcopal Church’s first openly gay bishop.

The move by the bishops underscores the tension within the 2.4 million-member Episcopal Church USA between its conservative and liberal clergy, a schism rooted in views on scripture and church politics concerning homosexuality.

Their appeal suggests the gap between the two sides has grown too wide to bridge.

“It’s overdue,†said Steven Randall, who resigned as an Episcopalian priest in Maryland to protest Robinson’s election. “They believe completely different things.â€Â

The appeal coincided with the nomination of the Rev. Canon Michael Barlowe, who is gay, as a finalist to become bishop of the Diocese of Newark, New Jersey, and came as Williams proposed conservative dissenters in the U.S. church be allowed to stand apart from it as associate members.

“We’ve essentially got two different churches living in the same house,†said the Rev. Van McAlister of the San Joaquin diocese. “We’re identifying that there is a problem and it needs to be addressed.â€Â

A few other dioceses may join the six bishops who appealed to Williams as well as many individual congregations, said Cynthia Brust, a spokeswoman for the American Anglican Council, a group for Episcopalians at odds with the U.S. church.

“We’re in uncharted territory,†Brust said, noting there is no precedent for the bishops’ appeal.

The request is troubling but Williams has offered the U.S. church a middle ground, said Bishop William Swing for the Diocese of California.

“The Archbishop of Canterbury has asked all of us in the Anglican Communion to enter into a deliberate process over time to see what an Anglican covenant should look like,†Swing said.

There are about 77 million Anglicans worldwide, making it the third-largest communion after the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. National or regional Anglican churches are autonomous, but are all in communion with the Church of England and its primate, the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Introspection may only harden divisions, said Archbishop Robert Morse, who helped found the conservative Anglican Province of Christ the King in the late 1970s in a break with the U.S. church over scriptural and cultural issues.

“What’s happening today is an increasingly confused picture,†Morse said. “Thirty years ago, we predicted this would happen.â€Â

The U.S. church may again be “pruning†itself, said Rev. Susan Russell of All Saints Church in Pasadena, California and president of Integrity, a groupor gay Episcopalians. “Episcopalians like to think of themselves as being a broad, generous church,†she said. “We may have reached the point where some can no longer live within the tent.â€Â