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Women are deficient in intelligence and religion - Muhammad

G

Gary

Guest
WOMEN ARE DEFICIENT IN INTELLIGENCE AND RELIGION

The intellectual and religious deficiencies of women are stated in the following Hadith found in Sahih al-Bukhari which is considered by Muslim scholars to be "The most authentic book after the Book of Allah (ie. the Qur'an)":sadSahih Bukhari, Arabic-English translation, vol. 1, Introduction, p. xiv.3)
"Allah's Apostle once said to a group of women : 'I have not seen any one more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious, sensible man could be led astray by some of you.' The women asked: 'O Allah's Apostle, what is deficient in our intelligence and religion?' He said: 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said: 'This is the deficiency of your intelligence' ... 'Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?' The women replied in the affirmative. He said: 'This is the deficiency in your religion.'"
(Sahih Bukhari, Arabic-English translation Vol 1 Hadith No. 301. See also vol. 3, Hadith No. 826.)
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The authenticity of the above Hadith is undisputed. It is reported by the two most reliable collections of Hadith; Bukhari and Muslim. The agreement of Bukhari and Muslim on its authenticity makes it (mutafaqun 'alayhi) 'agreed upon', which is the highest degree of authenticity. The above Hadith has been accepted and used by eminent scholars, such as Ghazali, Ibn al-'Arabi, Razi, Suyouti, Qortobi, Nawawi, and Ibn Kathir, in their writings.

The above Hadith does not describe women only in early Islam, but it is a description for all times, so long as 'women can neither pray nor fast during their menses' and so long as 'the evidence of two women is equal to the witness of one man.' This reasoning is not a temporary one, but is rooted in and derived from the Qur'an for all time until the day of resurrection.

Commenting on the Qur'anic verse Q. 30:21 which states "And of His signs is that He created for you, of yourselves, spouses, that you may repose in them" Razi said:

  • "His saying 'created for you' is a proof that women were created like animals and plants and other useful things, just as the Most High has said 'He created for you what is on earth' and that necessitates the woman not to be created for worship and carrying the Divine commands. We say creating the women is one of the graces bestowed upon us and charging them with Divine commands to complete the graces bestowed upon us, not that they are charged as we men are charged. For women are not charged with many commands as we are charged, because the woman is weak, silly, in one sense she is like a child, and no commands are laid upon a child, but for the grace of Allah upon us to be complete, women had to be charged so that they may fear the torment of punishment and so follow her husband, and keep away from what is forbidden, otherwise corruption would be rampant."(At-Tafsir al-Kabir, Razi, commenting on Q. 30:21.)
Another eminent Muslim thinker, Hadi Sabzevari, in his commentary on Sadr al-Mote'alihin wrote:
  • That Sadr ad-Deen Shirazi classifies women as animals is a delicate allusion to the fact that women, due to the deficiency in their intelligence and understanding of intricacies, and due to their fondness of the adornments of the world, are truly and justly among the mute animals [al-haywanti al-sa^mita]. They have the nature of beasts [ad-dawwa^b], but they have been given the disguise of human beings so that men would not be loath to talk to them and be compelled to have sexual intercourse with them. That is why our immaculate Law [shar'ina al-mutahhar] takes men's side and gives them superiority in most matters, including divorce, "nushuz," etc. (Quoted in Soroush, Abdolkarim, _Farbehtar az ideoloji_, Sera^t, Tehran, 1373 A.H.S.). (A.H.S. = After the Hegira, in Solar years).
The above is consistent with the authentic Hadith that says women are deficient in intelligence and religion. This belief has been accepted by Muslim scholars and writers for the past thirteen hundred years.

One modern writer said: "The woman's share of intellect does not reach man's level."(Al-Islam wa-l-Mar'ah al-Mu'aserah, Al- Bahi al-Khuli, Dar al-Qalam, Quwait, 1984, p. 241.)

He then went on to say that "al-'Aqad, one of the most eminent Arabic writers, in his book al-Mar'ah wal-Qur'an,

"has a valuable chapter in which 'Aqad demolished the intellectual equality of women and men."

As a matter of fact, the expression "naqisatan 'aqlan wa dinan" (deficient in intelligence and religion) is one of the bywords and axioms of life on the lips of the masses in Arabic countries.

Source: http://debate.domini.org/newton/womeng.html#def

:silly:

Let us consider who is really "deficient in intelligence".....

M U H A M M A D
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=12637
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The islamic faith is sexist...

...I never would have guessed that if it were not for you pointing that passage out Gary Bee. Well done *slow clap*.
 
Lets be fair

NO doubt Islam has no respect for women or beleive they have any rights. However if Christians want to embrace the entire bible as well lets look where these beliefs came from.
"When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her." (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)


"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." (Leviticus 21:9)


"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean." (Leviticus 12:2)

"But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days." (Leviticus 12:5)

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3)

"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9)

"Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." (Judges 19:24-25)


"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)


"Man enjoys the great advantage of having a god endorse the code he writes; and since man exercises a sovereign authority over women it is especially fortunate that this authority has been vested in him by the Supreme Being. For the Jews, Mohammedans and Christians among others, man is master by divine right; the fear of God will therefore repress any impulse towards revolt in the downtrodden female."

--Simone de Beauvoir, The Second Sex 1949



"As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active power of the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of a woman comes from defect in the active power...." Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica,Q92, art. 1, Reply Obj. 1
"And a man will choose...any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman...Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die" Ecclesiasticus, 25:18, 19 & 33. 1
"And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart is snares and nets, and her hands as bands: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her." Ecclesiastes 7:26, from the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament)
 
women are deficent in itelligents and religion

Revelatoins 14 : 4;

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.


When it says they which are not defiled by women its sort of like saying women are somehow sinful and contaminated. Women had to fight to get where they are.
Now in some of muslem countries women are still stoned to death, its almost as if time has stood still for women in those countries.
Christian men still want the women to be submisive unto them as wives. They still do not belive a woman should do alot of things , but in this time, Christian women have broken from some of the things they were held back from doing.
 
Defiling oneself with a woman does not imply that women are contaminated!

Fornication is a sin. When men fornicate they defile themselves!
 
Christianity is just sexist in theory as Islam. Islam has an actual legal side to it so it's not surprising that they can impliment their sexism better than christians. Christendom had to create laws for itself because of the lack of any legal code in the New testament.
 
SyntaxVorlon said:
Christianity is just sexist in theory as Islam. Islam has an actual legal side to it so it's not surprising that they can impliment their sexism better than christians. Christendom had to create laws for itself because of the lack of any legal code in the New testament.
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...As sexist as Islam... I don't see it. Christians do not sell our daughters as prostitutes, force them to be completely covered, rape women with out consiquence, or refuse to let women lead in any religious manner. There are standards laid out by the Apostles as to woman's role in the church. If you'd like to call that sexist, take it up with God.
 
Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
...As sexist as Islam... I don't see it. Christians do not sell our daughters as prostitutes, force them to be completely covered, rape women with out consiquence, or refuse to let women lead in any religious manner. There are standards laid out by the Apostles as to woman's role in the church. If you'd like to call that sexist, take it up with God.
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In the OT, women were property and were treated less then men.

Some examples:
In the Garden, God makes the husband rule the wife.

Lineage is through men, not women.

Men are allowed to have concubines and many wives, but women are not allowed to have multiple husbands.

Non-virgin women marrying must be killed, but not men.

A man could sell his daughter as a sex slave.

If a boy is born, the mother is unclean for 7 days and must be purified for 33 days; but if a girl is born, the mother is unclean for 14 days and be purified for 66 days. So girls are twice as "dirty" as boys.

A raped virgin must marry her rapist.

If a woman grabs the testicles of a man attacking her husband, she is to have her hand cut off.

God punishes men by having their wives raped.

Lot, who offers his two virgin daughters to a crowd of angel rapers and later impregnates them, was considered a "righteous man."

The Bible is extremely sexist. I feel sad for the women that have suffered under its rules and guidelines.

Quath
 
Quath said:
Some examples:
In the Garden, God makes the husband rule the wife.

Lineage is through men, not women.

Men are allowed to have concubines and many wives, but women are not allowed to have multiple husbands.

Non-virgin women marrying must be killed, but not men.

A man could sell his daughter as a sex slave.

If a boy is born, the mother is unclean for 7 days and must be purified for 33 days; but if a girl is born, the mother is unclean for 14 days and be purified for 66 days. So girls are twice as "dirty" as boys.

A raped virgin must marry her rapist.

If a woman grabs the testicles of a man attacking her husband, she is to have her hand cut off.

God punishes men by having their wives raped.

Lot, who offers his two virgin daughters to a crowd of angel rapers and later impregnates them, was considered a "righteous man."

Quath
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I think this is my longest post ever...

The part's I've Embolded are parts of all early societies. these we're roles defined by God. Again I remind you that God's ways are Higher than man.

The parts I've italicized really have no bearing to a sexist discussion because they deal with opinion based issues.

The part's I've left alone are parts that you've forgotten some of the text that describes the Laws. The Scriptures that follow should provide some answers.

DE 22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
DE 22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.
DE 22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die:
DE 22:26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
DE 22:27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.
DE 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
DE 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

And her is the story of Lot, I think both parties in this case are guitly.

GE 18:23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
GE 18:24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
GE 18:25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
GE 18:26 And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
GE 18:27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:
GE 18:28 Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.
GE 18:29 And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake.
GE 18:30 And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.
GE 18:31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.
GE 18:32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
GE 18:33 And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.
GE 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
GE 19:2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
GE 19:3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
GE 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
GE 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
GE 19:6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
GE 19:7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
GE 19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
GE 19:9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
GE 19:10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
GE 19:11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.
GE 19:12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
GE 19:13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.
GE 19:14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
GE 19:15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
GE 19:16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
GE 19:17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.
GE 19:18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord:
GE 19:19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast showed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:
GE 19:20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
GE 19:21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.
GE 19:22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
GE 19:23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.
GE 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
GE 19:25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
GE 19:26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
GE 19:27 And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD:
GE 19:28 And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.
GE 19:29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.
GE 19:30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
GE 19:31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
GE 19:32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
GE 19:33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
GE 19:34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
GE 19:35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
GE 19:36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
GE 19:37 And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
GE 19:38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.
 
Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
The part's I've Embolded are parts of all early societies. these we're roles defined by God. Again I remind you that God's ways are Higher than man.
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If God is defining rules for society, it should not matter. If He is never changing, then He does not need to promote sexist rules unless He is sexist today.

The part's I've left alone are parts that you've forgotten some of the text that describes the Laws. The Scriptures that follow should provide some answers.
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All I see is that you are agreeing with me. The scripures just say the following:

1. If a man has sex with another man's property with her consent, destroy both the woman and the man.

2. If a man has sex with another man's property with unknown consent by her, give benefit of doubt to woman and just destroy the man.

3. If a man rapes a virgin, he must marry her and pay a fine.

So it sounds like you agree with me and are just showing more sexually biased rules.

And her is the story of Lot, I think both parties in this case are guitly.
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I am not sure what point you are trying to get across.

Imagine today. Some guy gets his daughters pregnant. He says he was drunk and didn't realize what happened. Do we just call him a righteous man?

This guy offers his virgin daughters to a mob instead of letting the angels deal with the mob (they are suppose to be able to kill a few hundred thousand men easily from other scripture). Yet this guy is considered righteous?

Quath
 
here it is

Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
If you would not mind, please Highlight the scripture that says God considered Him a righteouss man?
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2 Peter 2:7 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society


7and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
 
I 'll honestly say I was not aware that this verse. Thanks guys. The Verse there tells you what was Lot's sin, and why he was still considered righteouss. He was protecting the Lords sevants before his own family. That would be righteouss. Thanks for pointing out my error, gentlemen. This still does not make him sexist.
 
Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
I 'll honestly say I was not aware that this verse. Thanks guys. The Verse there tells you what was Lot's sin, and why he was still considered righteouss. He was protecting the Lords sevants before his own family. That would be righteouss. Thanks for pointing out my error, gentlemen. This still does not make him sexist.
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The story does not make Lot a sexist. Probably more of a coward that gets drunk and has sex with his children, but not sexist. It is sexist that others would see him as righteous for offering up his daughters to a crowd. It shows there is little value placed on these girls.

I would have thought a righteous man would have faced the mob himself instead of hiding behind his children. If God was with him, he would have nothing to fear.

Gary Bee said:
as usual, Quath does his "red herring" to try and take the thread elsewhere
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The topic is on sexism in Islam. It was pointed out that Christianity has a fair amount of it. I was just supporting that view. It seems that people are too quick to point out the splinters in other's eyes.

Quath
 
Quath said:
The story does not make Lot a sexist. Probably more of a coward that gets drunk and has sex with his children, but not sexist. It is sexist that others would see him as righteous for offering up his daughters to a crowd. It shows there is little value placed on these girls.

I would have thought a righteous man would have faced the mob himself instead of hiding behind his children. If God was with him, he would have nothing to fear.
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This is opinionated skepticism. Being that you are trying to show Christianity is as sexist as Islam, this opinion shows nothing. All you are showing is that Lot may have been a whimp. Before you go about Questioning Lot's actions, you should realize that the custom of all people of that time was to give up all things of your's to protect a guest. In Lot's case, he was protecting the Angels of God. That's pretty righteouss.
 
There seems to be a plethora of Islamic nations that practice sexism. Christian nations? Nope.

It is inconsistent with God to be sexist(either way). Women play critical roles in the Bible, Christianity, etc. Those "sexist" laws look pretty discouraging too. Like death penaltys(not too far off from marriage heh.)

One beleiving that God, the Bible, and Christians(Christianity) is sexist have a difficulty in explaining the inconsistentsy.
 
Women in Christianity and Islam

Links:


:)
 
Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
There are standards laid out by the Apostles as to woman's role in the church. If you'd like to call that sexist, take it up with God.
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Presumably the Muslim could give the same kind of answer with regard to wife beating.
 
How sad that most users here ignorantly cite sources such as 'answering-islam' and passing counterfeit documents as original & and factual. This is getting quite pathetic to say the least. Islam liberated women 1400 years while the catholics were still debating whether or not women possessed souls. Furthermore, for every male convert to Islam, 4 female convert.

If anyone of you want to debate about this issue, then pm me.
 
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