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Women in the church

Amazed

Member
This issue of women having spiritual authority in the church is often ignored. The Word gives clear instruction that women are to learn in quietness and full submission. Through the Holy Spirit, Paul declares that women are not permitted to teach or to have authority over a man. Nevertheless, there is a rapid growth of women teachers in the church. And most of them seem to teach or preach with the same power and authority as men.
What is everybody's opinion on this? Please use scripture or other biblical principles to back up your understanding.
 
Jesus told us to be just:
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law, justice and mercy and faith; these you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. Matt 23:23 RSV
My sense of justice tells me that we shouldn’t prohibit women from being pastors.
 
Amazed said:
This issue of women having spiritual authority in the church is often ignored. The Word gives clear instruction that women are to learn in quietness and full submission. Through the Holy Spirit, Paul declares that women are not permitted to teach or to have authority over a man. Nevertheless, there is a rapid growth of women teachers in the church. And most of them seem to teach or preach with the same power and authority as men.
What is everybody's opinion on this? Please use scripture or other biblical principles to back up your understanding.


Hi A.

The world is going to wax worse and worse. This is why there is a rapid growth of women teachers in the church. And this is why they call themselves pastors (male title). And some even call themselves Prophets (male title). Basically, it boils down to women wanting to play the role that God explicitly gave to a man. These women are of the world, and not of the one true God !
 
Hi guys. thanks for your responses. Elijah23- I would agree that my sense of justice as well says that we should not prohibit women from speaking in the church. However, the scripture is VERY CLEAR. 1 Corintihans 14: 33-35
As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is DISGRACEFUL for a woman to speak in the church.
Most women speakers say that it is a wrong interpretation of scripture that leads people to believe that women should not be allowed to preach. However, passages like this and 1 Timothy 2:11,12 cannot be twisted. They are plain as day.
My problem is that many women speakers really help me in my spiritual walk. I think this is because I am a young woman, and maybe I relate to them a little better.
 
Amazed said:
Hi guys. thanks for your responses. Elijah23- I would agree that my sense of justice as well says that we should not prohibit women from speaking in the church. However, the scripture is VERY CLEAR. 1 Corintihans 14: 33-35
As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is DISGRACEFUL for a woman to speak in the church.
Most women speakers say that it is a wrong interpretation of scripture that leads people to believe that women should not be allowed to preach. However, passages like this and 1 Timothy 2:11,12 cannot be twisted. They are plain as day.
My problem is that many women speakers really help me in my spiritual walk. I think this is because I am a young woman, and maybe I relate to them a little better.
Jesus said we have to be just and Jesus is Lord.
 
Re:God appointed women in the church

Leave it up to the Holy Spirit to decide.There are some women that have been called by God to preach because unlike when the Apostle Paul wrote his instructions,they are now educated and accepted as equals in Western societies.The vast majority of male and female ministers have not been given any spiritual gifts by the Holy Spirit and therefore are not God ordained.Of course their ministries should be ignored by all except those who are looking for a social experience worship service.
 
I definitely agree with that- it seems that a degree qualifies our ministers today rather than God. To some, preaching the gospel is just a source of income.
But the women preachers I am speaking of preach with so much power and passion- it's hard to believe that their abilities could derive from a source other than God.
Now, what about the household? Do you believe that the man should still be the head of the household, and that his wife should submit to him? Or do you believe that both are equal?
 
Now, what about the household? Do you believe that the man should still be the head of the household, and that his wife should submit to him? Or do you believe that both are equal?

Equal with different roles.

When we thing of the word "submit" in our society, it has a lot of negative connotation, but when used in the NT, it actually is the same word to describe the position of soldiers in formation.

For example, the soldier who was pulling up the rear would thus be "submitting" to the soldier in front. If this soldier refused to play this role and instead insisted on performing the same role as the lead soldier, it would throw their whole formation out of line and leave them exposed.

The same goes with the marriage relationship, when one of the two is not playing their role, it has dire effects on their relationship.
 
LaCrum said:
Now, what about the household? Do you believe that the man should still be the head of the household, and that his wife should submit to him? Or do you believe that both are equal?

Equal with different roles.

When we thing of the word "submit" in our society, it has a lot of negative connotation, but when used in the NT, it actually is the same word to describe the position of soldiers in formation.

For example, the soldier who was pulling up the rear would thus be "submitting" to the soldier in front. If this soldier refused to play this role and instead insisted on performing the same role as the lead soldier, it would throw their whole formation out of line and leave them exposed.

The same goes with the marriage relationship, when one of the two is not playing their role, it has dire effects on their relationship.
the better word would be subordinate in that case, to make oneself subordinate to another is a choice and command when it comes to marriage for the woman, but the man does that too with the lord, as he must account to lord.
 
See I agree with you there. "Equality" and "Justice" are complicated words.
Over the last few decades, it seems like the male and female roles have turned upside down. I mean we have women running the government, while their husbands stay at home with the children. I just don't believe that this is how the Lord intended it to be. God gave women breasts for reasons other than foreplay. And Adam called Eve the "mother of all living" because he recognized her God given role as the nurturer and caregiver.
So while these women are out changing everybody else's lives, what is becoming of thier own children?
 
Amazed said:
See I agree with you there. "Equality" and "Justice" are complicated words.
Over the last few decades, it seems like the male and female roles have turned upside down. I mean we have women running the government, while their husbands stay at home with the children. I just don't believe that this is how the Lord intended it to be. God gave women breasts for reasons other than foreplay. And Adam called Eve the "mother of all living" because he recognized her God given role as the nurturer and caregiver.
So while these women are out changing everybody else's lives, what is becoming of thier own children?
the irony here, amazed, it is this confusion that leads to homosexuality for some.
 
You mean being raised in this sort of "out of balance" household sometimes leads children to homosexuality?
 
Amazed said:
You mean being raised in this sort of "out of balance" household sometimes leads children to homosexuality?
possible. i had to be shown by the lord what the role of a man and woman are as part of my healing from bisexuality.

a man and woman represent parts of the lord, in marriage the trinity itself is represented.
god the father(god in the marriage) the groom christ. the bride the holy spirit. if i recall correctly.
though i think that the roles of the man and women being represented can switch.
 
.
Amazed

by LaCrum on Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:22 pm

Now, what about the household? Do you believe that the man should still be the head of the household, and that his wife should submit to him? Or do you believe that both are equal?

Equal with different roles.

When we think of the word "submit" in our society, it has a lot of negative connotations, but when used in the NT, it actually is the same word to describe the position of soldiers in formation.

For example, the soldier who was pulling up the rear would thus be "submitting" to the soldier in front. If this soldier refused to play this role and instead insisted on performing the same role as the lead soldier, it would throw their whole formation out of line and leave them exposed.

The same goes with the marriage relationship, when one of the two is not playing their role, it has dire effects on their relationship.


LaCrum has put the principle in a nutshell in that post. Equal with different roles is precisely the New Testament teaching. It is less about authority, than it is about different roles in the Body of Christ. There is only one Lord in the ekklesia, and in the Body of Christ, and in the family. That is the Lord Jesus Christ. A man who makes himself Lord in any of those situations has usurped the position of his Lord Jesus Christ. Submission is not intended to make the one submitted to a Lord.

And that includes the children in a family setting. They are just as human as the parents. But their role is to learn from the parents. That is what makes parenting such a very serious role, for both parents. The role of the parents is to teach the children. And if we realize that children are as human as we are, it is much easier to give them the affection that they deserve and need, as well as the discipline that speaks with both authority and teaching, the authority and teaching of Jesus Christ.

And Paul did say that “The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.†(Titus 2:3-5) It is right that you identify with the women teachers in the way that you do. Women are not to teach in the meetings of the ekklesia. That is the responsibility of the men. And the men are to exercise this responsibility through the Spirit.

But the older women are to teach the younger women outside of the ekklesia. The women need a different kind of teaching. An experiential teaching that is not always so doctrinally minded, though not against the teaching of God. The women do not need so much the “deep teachings of Godâ€, as the practical teachings of God. And that is due to their role in the ekklesia and in the family. And you will note that women teachers are generally much more practical minded than the men teachers. But again, there is the need for the teaching to be through the Spirit of God.

And notice how in the Old Testament, when the men fell down on the job, so to speak, when they would not walk according to their God, God raised up women to take their place. So men who think that the women teachers are a sign of degraded times need to take a close look at themselves.

JamesG
 
jasoncran said:
that is the truth, we men have failed to be role models and leaders of the church and at home. :verysad

That's mainstream churches' fruit. Jesus says we know them by their fruit.
 
honestly and actually... we have all failed. men and women have pulled away from each other in an ungodly manner. men dont love and defend their women as they should and women dont respect their men as they should. and really its the innocent children who suffer most. we all want the world to change. and we look to the government for answers. we criticize them for the decisions they make. yet christian men and women often cant even keep their own homes 2gether. if we want change, i believe it has to start in the homes. we have underestimated our parental roles. the children need mothers and fathers, not daycares. they need time and love, not toys. maybe we cant save this generation, but we can save the next.
 
Amazed said:
honestly and actually... we have all failed. men and women have pulled away from each other in an ungodly manner. men dont love and defend their women as they should and women dont respect their men as they should. and really its the innocent children who suffer most. we all want the world to change. and we look to the government for answers. we criticize them for the decisions they make. yet christian men and women often cant even keep their own homes 2gether. if we want change, i believe it has to start in the homes. we have underestimated our parental roles. the children need mothers and fathers, not daycares. they need time and love, not toys. maybe we cant save this generation, but we can save the next.

Most unfaithful parenting pass to next generation. Hypocrisy goes on generation after generation. This is their fruit.
 
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