Worship

[Orthodoxy]

Ponder this:

Can you worship an infant as God in the flesh sitting in the throne of His mother's lap?

Orthodoxy

 

[Heidi]

Ponder this:

Can you worship an infant as God in the flesh sitting in the throne of His mother's lap?

Orthodoxy

Even Jesus had to spend 40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness to conquer temptation. When did Mary conquer hers? Or was she born more sinless than the Son of God? :o

 

[Orthodoxy]

Ponder this:

Can you worship an infant as God in the flesh sitting in the throne of His mother's lap?

Orthodoxy

Even Jesus had to spend 40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness to conquer temptation. When did Mary conquer hers? Or was she born more sinless than the Son of God? :o

Thank you for your non answer questions. :roll:

Maybe you did not understand the question. I will phrase it differently just for you:

Can you worship God as a human body in His infant stage of life?

or

Can you worship Jesus Christ as God when He was an infant?

If these questions are too deep I understand but please refrain from answering my questions with off topic questions.

Thanks,

Orthodoxy

 

[Lyric's Dad]

I do not think the stage of Christ's earthly life are important in defining worship. It is not His body we worship but the essence of Christ who took on the tabernacle. Yes, I can worship the Christ child on Mary's lap, in the manger, or fully grown going under the water with John at His arm as well as the resurrected Lord.

I find all of His life to be awe inspiring.

 

[Orthodoxy]

I do not think the stage of Christ's earthly life are important in defining worship. It is not His body we worship but the essence of Christ who took on the tabernacle. Yes, I can worship the Christ child on Mary's lap, in the manger, or fully grown going under the water with John at His arm as well as the resurrected Lord.

I find all of His life to be awe inspiring.

Yes, very good.

Thanks,

Orthodoxy

 

[cj]

I do not think the stage of Christ's earthly life are important in defining worship. It is not His body we worship but the essence of Christ who took on the tabernacle. Yes, I can worship the Christ child on Mary's lap, in the manger, or fully grown going under the water with John at His arm as well as the resurrected Lord.

I find all of His life to be awe inspiring.

Believer's need to worship the Lord for who He is, God, and what He's done, redeemed creation.

We run into problems when we begin to shift focus from these two things.

In love,
cj

 

[Heidi]

Ponder this:

Can you worship an infant as God in the flesh sitting in the throne of His mother's lap?

Orthodoxy

Even Jesus had to spend 40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness to conquer temptation. When did Mary conquer hers? Or was she born more sinless than the Son of God? :o

Thank you for your non answer questions. :roll:

Maybe you did not understand the question. I will phrase it differently just for you:

Can you worship God as a human body in His infant stage of life?

or

Can you worship Jesus Christ as God when He was an infant?

If these questions are too deep I understand but please refrain from answering my questions with off topic questions.

Thanks,

Orthodoxy

We worship Christ only after he died for us because it was only then that his sacrifice purified our sins enough to see God. John 16:1, "Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you. But if I go away, I will send him to you." As Jesus says, we can only know God through the Holy Spirit which comes and makes his home inside of us. Scrutinize John chapters 14-17 to see what eternal life is.

 

[Orthodoxy]

Ponder this:

Can you worship an infant as God in the flesh sitting in the throne of His mother's lap?

Orthodoxy

Even Jesus had to spend 40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness to conquer temptation. When did Mary conquer hers? Or was she born more sinless than the Son of God? :o

Thank you for your non answer questions. :roll:

Maybe you did not understand the question. I will phrase it differently just for you:

Can you worship God as a human body in His infant stage of life?

or

Can you worship Jesus Christ as God when He was an infant?

If these questions are too deep I understand but please refrain from answering my questions with off topic questions.

Thanks,

Orthodoxy

We worship Christ only after he died for us because it was only then that his sacrifice purified our sins enough to see God. John 16:1, "Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you. But if I go away, I will send him to you." As Jesus says, we can only know God through the Holy Spirit which comes and makes his home inside of us. Scrutinize John chapters 14-17 to see what eternal life is.

I will put you down for a definite, NO, you cannot worship Jesus Christ as an infant. Maybe He is not worthy of your worship as a child? :smt102

However be aware many worshipped Jesus Christ from His birth to His death seeing the grace manifest. Abraham worshipped Him. Moses worshipped Him. Adam walked in the garden with Him. Jesus Christ is worshipped in the eternal past, present and eternal future.

Thank you for your answer.

 

[cj]

However be aware many worshipped Jesus Christ from His birth to His death seeing the grace manifest. Abraham worshipped Him. Moses worshipped Him. Adam walked in the garden with Him. Jesus Christ is worshipped in the eternal past, present and eternal future.

Yeh, but not as an infant.

In love,
cj

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Matthew 2:11
And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

Luke 1:41
And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

John the Forerunner worshipped the infant Christ in the womb; Shpeherds in the field and archangels worshipped on the day of Christ's birth, and the Magi of the East, drawn by God, came and worshipped the Child.

And as Orthodoxy has o-so-correctly noted, before Abraham was, He Is.

 

[cj]

Matthew 2:11
And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

Luke 1:41
And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

John the Forerunner worshipped the infant Christ in the womb; Shpeherds in the field and archangels worshipped on the day of Christ's birth, and the Magi of the East, drawn by God, came and worshipped the Child.

And as Orthodoxy has o-so-correctly noted, before Abraham was, He Is.

So you really believe that this worship was of an infant, a human infant, and even worse, of an unborn fetus?

Are you that scripturally shallow. Are you really ignorant of the matter of worship and what true worship is?

Are you so darkened by false doctrines and teachings that you canot see that Jesus in His humanity was simply a created vessel to carry God?


Let me see if I can open it up for you,....... there is only one throne at which true worship can be given.

When worship was given to Jesus at His birth, it was in reality being given to God for what He was accomplishing with the coming of this One.




In love,
cj

 

[Soma-Sight]

Is their any Biblical evidence that Mary comforts Jesus' dead/dying body at the Cross?

 

[Soma-Sight]

John the Forerunner worshipped the infant Christ in the womb;

That is a good point....

There is no "distinction" between mother and child at this point.....

Interesting to think about.....

 

[Orthodoxy]

However be aware many worshipped Jesus Christ from His birth to His death seeing the grace manifest. Abraham worshipped Him. Moses worshipped Him. Adam walked in the garden with Him. Jesus Christ is worshipped in the eternal past, present and eternal future.

Yeh, but not as an infant.

In love,
cj

Matthew 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

2Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

3When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.

4And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.

5And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,

6And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

7Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.

8And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.

9When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.

10When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.

11And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

Worship is reserved for God alone yet these pagan wise men worshipped an infant as God.

Maybe Jesus Christ is a Pagan God, cj?

Seems the "wise men" had no problem falling down before God in the lap of His mother.

Orthodoxy

 

[Orthodoxy]

Matthew 2:11
And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

Luke 1:41
And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

John the Forerunner worshipped the infant Christ in the womb; Shpeherds in the field and archangels worshipped on the day of Christ's birth, and the Magi of the East, drawn by God, came and worshipped the Child.

And as Orthodoxy has o-so-correctly noted, before Abraham was, He Is.

So you really believe that this worship was of an infant, a human infant, and even worse, of an unborn fetus?

Yes. Are you pro abortion?

[quote:c7df0]Are you that scripturally shallow. Are you really ignorant of the matter of worship and what true worship is?

God owns His worship man is to conform to His image and likeness not make up his own understanding of worship.

Are you so darkened by false doctrines and teachings that you canot see that Jesus in His humanity was simply a created vessel to carry God?

When did Jesus Christ become God?

At what point in time did Jesus Christ partake of the divine nature? birth? Circumcision? baptism?

Jesus Christ is really God the Father in Human flesh?

Was the humanity of Jesus swallowed up by the divine nature of the Father?

Ever hear of a man named Nestorius?

When worship was given to Jesus at His birth, it was in reality being given to God for what He was accomplishing with the coming of this One.

[/quote:c7df0]

The might OZ has spoken with all due respect to Vic. :-D

Orthodoxy

BTW Orthodox Christian thank you for the back up John the Baptist joyfully worshipping the divine and most holy "fetus".

 

[cj]

Worship is reserved for God alone yet these pagan wise men worshipped an infant as God.

Firstly Orthodox, you really make no counterpoint to what I said. So the point still remains,...... there is only.... one..... true throne to worshup at.

Now to the siiliness of your speaking, lets first identify the truth concerning worship.

Deuteronomy  6 : 13, "It is Jehovah your God whom you shall fear, and Him whom you shall serve; and it is by His name only that you shall swear.

And echoing the above OT verse, Jesus Himself declares in Matthew  4 : 10, "Then Jesus said to him, Go away, Satan! For it is written,.... "You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only shall you serve.''

And more, Revelation  19 : 10, "And I fell before his feet to worship him. And he said to me, Do not do this. I am your fellow slave and a fellow slave of your brothers who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of the prophecy."

And again, Revelation 22 : 9, "And he said to me, Do not do that! I am your fellow slave and a fellow slave of your brothers the prophets and of those who keep the words of this scroll.......... Worship God."


Isn't it interesting that scripture tells us that God Himself, and Jesus, and an angel who is in the heavens and certainly serves/worships God (and who is far clearer about this than we unperfected believers are) all say "Worship God"?

But you say "Worship the baby Jesus."


You think you know the scriptures Orthodox, but honestly, you don't.


About your comment regarding the "wise" pagan men,.....

These men were so "wise" that they made the mistake of using their human concept of where a king should be found, in Jerusalem, which is to say, they made a mistake.

"Wise" huh. Their so-called" wisdom got many children killed.

See they, like you, did not stick to the scriptures alone but decided to add their human concepts to what they had read.

Notice that the Jewish chief priests and scribes knew where the Messiah would be born, as they were familiar with the scripture prophecy concerning Jesus' birth, but the "wise" men did not. How, if they were so "wise", did they not know about this scripture prophecy?

They knew what the star in the sky meant, that the King of the Jews was born, yet they did not know that this King would be born in Bethlehem,.... how come, its all in the same Jewish scriptures?



See, this is actually a great example of the problem we have as believers...... we know that we have been born again of a new and wonderful life, that something in us has changed,...... yet, we try to rely on our old ways and concepts, our "wisdom", to cause this newness in us to be expressed.

But we will always, just like the "wise" men, end up failing and in this failure end up getting some folks hurt.

And how do we do this, we either are to religious and try to stick to the letter of the scriptures according to our own natural reasoning, or we are to casual and try to live by this new life out of our own natural reasoning, or sometimes one and sometimes the other, very religious in one thing and very casual in another.


The truth is, we believers can be a sorry lot most of the time.

How patient and long-suffering is our Lord; how merciful and full of grace.



Anyway, back to the point at hand,.....


These "wise" men (who scripture tells us were maybe not so wise) did not worship God as an infant, scripture tells us that they worshipped God incarnate as "..... He who has been born King of the Jews....", for they knew no better.

The "wise" men, in their own words, worshipped the child Jesus as a King. Or in other words, they worshipped Him for the position of Kingship they believed He held.

Maybe Jesus Christ is a Pagan God, cj?

The Jesus I worship isn't, but the one you worship in your apostate synagogues certainly is.

Seems the "wise men" had no problem falling down before God in the lap of His mother.

And your insinuation here is wickedness to the uttermost. In that you would in the crafty way of Satan, seek to have the worship of God shared.

So sneaky is the way of deceipt,.... "falling down before God in the lap of His mother."

These words could only come from Satan's lips.

For this is what God has declared in His word..... "And falling down, they worshipped Him;


How far you would go to uphold the false doctrines of your beloved anti-Christ apostate institution, that even on these boards, before persons who read the word of God, you would blatantly attempt to deceive by adding a lie to the thought of God as found in His word.


Lord, save us all.


In love,
cj

 

[cj]

Saints, lets take a look at the way the adversary of God works through the speaking of a darkened mind....

In an above post I said, "So you really believe that this worship was of an infant, a human infant, and even worse, of an unborn fetus?"

To this Orthodox replied....

Yes. Are you pro abortion?

"Pro abortion?"

Where did that come from?

Satan's mind.

Satan does whatever he feels is necessary to confuse the situation, the bible tells us this. And right here in Orthodox's speaking we see exactly this being done, for what did I say to give cause for this wicked suggestion, hidden in his question.

Away with your satanic service Orthodox, I have nothing further to say to you.



But be clear, I will continue to have something to say about any lies Orthodox brings to these boards.


In love,
cj

 

[Orthodoxy]

Saints, lets take a look at the way the adversary of God works through the speaking of a darkened mind....

In an above post I said, "So you really believe that this worship was of an infant, a human infant, and even worse, of an unborn fetus?"

To this Orthodox replied....

Yes. Are you pro abortion?

"Pro abortion?"

Where did that come from?

Satan's mind.

Satan does whatever he feels is necessary to confuse the situation, the bible tells us this. And right here in Orthodox's speaking we see exactly this being done, for what did I say to give cause for this wicked suggestion, hidden in his question.

Away with your satanic service Orthodox, I have nothing further to say to you.



But be clear, I will continue to have something to say about any lies Orthodox brings to these boards.


In love,
cj

The reason I asked is because of your seeming disregard for the infant Jesus in the womb of Mary.

The phrase "and even worse, of an unborn fetus" appeared callous and uncaring. When I read this remark that was my impression.

Are you a pro abort?

Orthodoxy

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Worship is reserved for God alone yet these pagan wise men worshipped an infant as God.

Firstly Orthodox, you really make no counterpoint to what I said. So the point still remains,...... there is only.... one..... true throne to worshup at.
And where is this throne? Or more importantly, where is He who sits on the Throne?
Further, all glory and honor and blessing go to "Him who sits on the throne AND unto the Lamb."


Now to the siiliness of your speaking, lets first identify the truth concerning worship.

Deuteronomy  6 : 13, "It is Jehovah your God whom you shall fear, and Him whom you shall serve; and it is by His name only that you shall swear.

And echoing the above OT verse, Jesus Himself declares in Matthew  4 : 10, "Then Jesus said to him, Go away, Satan! For it is written,.... "You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only shall you serve.''

And more, Revelation  19 : 10, "And I fell before his feet to worship him. And he said to me, Do not do this. I am your fellow slave and a fellow slave of your brothers who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of the prophecy."

And again, Revelation 22 : 9, "And he said to me, Do not do that! I am your fellow slave and a fellow slave of your brothers the prophets and of those who keep the words of this scroll.......... Worship God."


Isn't it interesting that scripture tells us that God Himself, and Jesus, and an angel who is in the heavens and certainly serves/worships God (and who is far clearer about this than we unperfected believers are) all say "Worship God"?

But you say "Worship the baby Jesus."
At what point in time did He who is the Word of God inhabit the baby Jesus? Was it while in utero, sometime after birth, or perhaps at his bar mitzvah?


You think you know the scriptures Orthodox, but honestly, you don't.


About your comment regarding the "wise" pagan men,.....

These men were so "wise" that they made the mistake of using their human concept of where a king should be found, in Jerusalem, which is to say, they made a mistake.

"Wise" huh. Their so-called" wisdom got many children killed.
It was Herod who got babies killed

See they, like you, did not stick to the scriptures alone but decided to add their human concepts to what they had read.
Look, everyone, the Wise Men errored in worshipping Christ.


Notice that the Jewish chief priests and scribes knew where the Messiah would be born, as they were familiar with the scripture prophecy concerning Jesus' birth, but the "wise" men did not. How, if they were so "wise", did they not know about this scripture prophecy?
I have a better question: why were they looking, and those learned in scripture busy teaching but not looking?
:roll:


They knew what the star in the sky meant, that the King of the Jews was born, yet they did not know that this King would be born in Bethlehem,.... how come, its all in the same Jewish scriptures?
In their hunger to find Him, they inquired so as to find him. Knowledge and hunger obviously don't go hand in hand, for the scribes did not travel the few miles from their lofty seats to see He of whom it was written

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

See, this is actually a great example of the problem we have as believers...... we know that we have been born again of a new and wonderful life, that something in us has changed,...... yet, we try to rely on our old ways and concepts, our "wisdom", to cause this newness in us to be expressed.

But we will always, just like the "wise" men, end up failing and in this failure end up getting some folks hurt.
What utter tripe.
Wise men still seek Him.

And how do we do this, we either are to religious and try to stick to the letter of the scriptures according to our own natural reasoning, or we are to casual and try to live by this new life out of our own natural reasoning, or sometimes one and sometimes the other, very religious in one thing and very casual in another.


The truth is, we believers can be a sorry lot most of the time.

How patient and long-suffering is our Lord; how merciful and full of grace.



Anyway, back to the point at hand,.....


These "wise" men (who scripture tells us were maybe not so wise) did not worship God as an infant, scripture tells us that they worshipped God incarnate as "..... He who has been born King of the Jews....", for they knew no better.

The "wise" men, in their own words, worshipped the child Jesus as a King. Or in other words, they worshipped Him for the position of Kingship they believed He held.
The scripture states only "they fell down and worshipped Him." The rest of your explanation is simply pulled out of the air.

Maybe Jesus Christ is a Pagan God, cj?

The Jesus I worship isn't, but the one you worship in your apostate synagogues certainly is.
More anti-Semitism. A synagogue simply means "gathering" not unlike ekklesian, the Greek term. We worship the Incarnate Christ, guilty as charged.

Seems the "wise men" had no problem falling down before God in the lap of His mother.

And your insinuation here is wickedness to the uttermost. In that you would in the crafty way of Satan, seek to have the worship of God shared.

So sneaky is the way of deceipt,.... "falling down before God in the lap of His mother."

These words could only come from Satan's lips.


For this is what God has declared in His word..... "And falling down, they worshipped Him;


How far you would go to uphold the false doctrines of your beloved anti-Christ apostate institution, that even on these boards, before persons who read the word of God, you would blatantly attempt to deceive by adding a lie to the thought of God as found in His word.


Lord, save us all.


In love,
cj

You object to Orthodoxy "adding" to scripture, yet you add and subtract with liberality. John the forerunner rejoiced and worshipped while Jesus was still in utero.

 

[cj]

You object to Orthodoxy "adding" to scripture, yet you add and subtract with liberality. John the forerunner rejoiced and worshipped while Jesus was still in utero

Where have I "subtracted" anything from the scriptures OC.

Scripture says that God is Spirit, and those who worship Him do so in spirit and in truth.

How could John in the womb of His mother know that Jesus was in the womb of Mary? Could John see Jesus? No. So how could he know?

By his spirit.

Truth is, John didn't know in any soulish way. John's spirit simply rejoiced when the persence of God in Christ Jesus, came near to him.

Additionally, notice that the scriptures tell us that it was when Elizabeth heard/recognized Mary's greeting, that the baby in her womb reacted.

This tells us that a baby is very much aware of what the mother is feeling, which confirms what I said on another board regarding the suffering of childbirth. For if Mary was in pain, then the Child she was carrying knew this and shared it with her.


But back to your accusation, I subtracted nothing OC.

Sorry, try again.

In love,
cj