Wrath of God question

[Deavonreye]

I do know what you are saying, God gives us free will, to either sin or not, and those people were just plain evil. I need to take off, but will post more later. Have a good day!

See, I don't think they were "evil". They were just doing what humanity has done since the dawn of time. The masses being controled by an small elite, getting them to do things, teaching them to follow practices out of fear that if they didn't they would experience harshness from their gods. Fear is a great motivator to the weak minded. And it can only be suggested, without evidence, . . . and without any input from a deity [which is the case I choose to believe].

 

[Elijah674]

Hi, just realize that there are good & bad around here, and allowed with freedom [FROM GOD] to post, huh?;)

Anyway, back to your question. Try the K.J. on Heb. 12:4-8 and remember that these are Partakers! (or Born Again ones!) ibid. 8 (verse 8) Also understand that we of our own free will can knowingly ('free choice') choose to [NOT DO REQUIRED]tough love duties! Such as clean up corrupt doctrines & remove rebellious open sinners from membership books. That work is not to our liking, yet we are still Partakers the verse states for a while before we become BASTARDS. (meaning Fatherless.. Not OSAS)

--Elijah

 

[elijah23]

I am having a hard time viewing God's wrath spoken of in the bible in relation to 2 Peter 3:9 - "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." -

How can he pour out his wrath on his enemies but at the same time not be willing that they perish?

A loving parent disciplines their child, when necessary. That’s all the Lord does. His discipline can be very severe if we stubbornly persist in our sin, but it is for our own good.

 

[whitney]

See, I don't think they were "evil". They were just doing what humanity has done since the dawn of time. The masses being controled by an small elite, getting them to do things, teaching them to follow practices out of fear that if they didn't they would experience harshness from their gods. Fear is a great motivator to the weak minded. And it can only be suggested, without evidence, . . . and without any input from a deity [which is the case I choose to believe].

So you don't believe the people burning their children alive are evil? Can we agree on what evil is before we move on? There needs to be SOME common ground, otherwise we are wasting our time.

 

[whitney]

Hi, just realize that there are good & bad around here, and allowed with freedom [FROM GOD] to post, huh?;)

Anyway, back to your question. Try the K.J. on Heb. 12:4-8 and remember that these are Partakers! (or Born Again ones!) ibid. 8 (verse 8) Also understand that we of our own free will can knowingly ('free choice') choose to [NOT DO REQUIRED]tough love duties! Such as clean up corrupt doctrines & remove rebellious open sinners from membership books. That work is not to our liking, yet we are still Partakers the verse states for a while before we become BASTARDS. (meaning Fatherless.. Not OSAS)

--Elijah

Elijah,
I could be wrong, but my understanding is that this is more of God's wrath of mass killings in the OT. They are trying to reconcile why God would kill all these people, women and children, but then turn around and not wish anyone should perish. That's the question, it's not about OSAS and corrupt doctrine.

God bless you -

 

[Deavonreye]

So you don't believe the people burning their children alive are evil? Can we agree on what evil is before we move on? There needs to be SOME common ground, otherwise we are wasting our time.

I think they were completely wrong in doing what they did. However, in their culture, they were doing what they could to be obedient to their gods, undoubtably out of fear. In the same, . . . the Hebrews did many MANY things that would be equally as "evil" as those who "threw their children into the fire". Some perhaps more, IMO.

 

[whitney]

I think they were completely wrong in doing what they did. However, in their culture, they were doing what they could to be obedient to their gods, undoubtably out of fear. In the same, . . . the Hebrews did many MANY things that would be equally as "evil" as those who "threw their children into the fire". Some perhaps more, IMO.

The Israelites were disobedient and in their disobedience they were punished. They were set apart from the rest of the nations, they were given the 10 commandments, and were taught God's way. Through those commandments they were taught about sin.

The reason there is so much evil in this world is because of Satan, he has convinced people, like yourself, there is no God and you believe him. Satan is alive and well and creating havoc in this world, he influences people to do bad things - evil things.

Good vs Evil - where do you think that saying came from?

 

[Deavonreye]

The Israelites were disobedient and in their disobedience they were punished. They were set apart from the rest of the nations, they were given the 10 commandments, and were taught God's way. Through those commandments they were taught about sin.

The reason there is so much evil in this world is because of Satan, he has convinced people, like yourself, there is no God and you believe him. Satan is alive and well and creating havoc in this world, he influences people to do bad things - evil things.

Good vs Evil - where do you think that saying came from?

The term came from a dualistic church that states "I'm right, and everyone else is wrong", and used the power of the church goverment [long ago] to promote this. It isn't true, by the way.

Also, I've never said "there is no god". I firmly believe that people were mistaken. . . . . that many people have had contact with the god [or goddess, for that matter], and that no one can fully understand such a thing. There is absolutely no one that can claim authority on these matters.

 

[whitney]

The term came from a dualistic church that states "I'm right, and everyone else is wrong", and used the power of the church goverment [long ago] to promote this. It isn't true, by the way.

Also, I've never said "there is no god". I firmly believe that people were mistaken. . . . . that many people have had contact with the god [or goddess, for that matter], and that no one can fully understand such a thing. There is absolutely no one that can claim authority on these matters.

The authority is the Word of God.

 

[Deavonreye]

The authority is the Word of God.

That's fine if you choose to believe that. I personally see nothing of authority in the pages. Sure, a few nice things, but nothing authoritative.

 

[whitney]

That's fine if you choose to believe that. I personally see nothing of authority in the pages. Sure, a few nice things, but nothing authoritative.

Have you read the entire Bible? I find that most atheists have not, but they simply pick out certain scripture to argue over without understanding the entire context.

 

[Jakeness]

I do know what you are saying, God gives us free will, to either sin or not, and those people were just plain evil. I need to take off, but will post more later. Have a good day!

"Free will" is something that is highly doubtful to be real. With a moderate understanding of the brain, it isn't that hard to see why.
[video=youtube;-i3AiOS4nCE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i3AiOS4nCE[/video]

EDIT:

Have you read the entire Bible? I find that most atheists have not, but they simply pick out certain scripture to argue over without understanding the entire context.

On the contrary, studies show that atheists know more about religions than believers.

 

[whitney]

On the contrary, studies show that atheists know more about religions than believers.

I wasn't talking about religion, I am talking about the Word of God - quit the difference. Anyway, doubt if you've read it either.

 

[Deavonreye]

I have read quite a bit of the bible. In fact, when I was having doubts, I was told, by a pastor, to read the bible through. As I did, I made a journal of how I was feeling about what I was reading. It was quite eye opening, to say the least, when you actually read what pastors choose not to preach on.

 

[whitney]

I have read quite a bit of the bible. In fact, when I was having doubts, I was told, by a pastor, to read the bible through. As I did, I made a journal of how I was feeling about what I was reading. It was quite eye opening, to say the least, when you actually read what pastors choose not to preach on.

Good point, there are alot of preachers who keep it pretty basic, and I can't speak for everyone else, but I used to be a pew setter, but I can honestly say, I am not anymore.

I've had preachers tell me that if they go too deep or preach on something that is not "comfortable" they lose people's focus and/or people get too upset.

Good idea about keeping a journal when you read the Bible. Keep reading! LOL

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Never had kids, eh????

How can a father spank his son, while at the same time not want him to suffer?

OF COURSE you want him to "suffer" - rebellion is bound up in him, and pain is the BEST way to get his attention.

Same with us when we're Scourged by father - so that we can change.

 

[cosmicutopia]

Re: Never had kids, eh????

How can a father spank his son, while at the same time not want him to suffer?

OF COURSE you want him to "suffer" - rebellion is bound up in him, and pain is the BEST way to get his attention.

Same with us when we're Scourged by father - so that we can change.

This sounds like it could be true.. but I'm wondering if it's biblical?

 

[Elijah674]

I still stand by what I said. "Wrath" is a negative characteristic. . . . and quite frankly, it seems silly to see any advanced deity acting that way. IMO

Wrath or Hate or Love?? Obad. 1:16 is called Gods strange act.
Surely one needs to understand that there is JUSTICE! Rightous Hatred of sin is seen in contrast to the Giving of Christ to die as the Son of God, and is love.
And you think that LOVE just lets sin live on eternally? Nah. 1:9

And you say..
and quite frankly, it seems silly to see any advanced deity acting that way. IMO[/QUOTE]

Well youngin, you can be sure that it will all be FINISHED shortly!

--Elijah

 

[Deavonreye]

Wrath or Hate or Love?? Obad. 1:16 is called Gods strange act.
Surely one needs to understand that there is JUSTICE! Rightous Hatred of sin is seen in contrast to the Giving of Christ to die as the Son of God, and is love.
And you think that LOVE just lets sin live on eternally? Nah. 1:9

And you say..
and quite frankly, it seems silly to see any advanced deity acting that way. IMO

Well youngin, you can be sure that it will all be FINISHED shortly!

--Elijah

I'm not "sure" of anything, and neither are you, . . . or anyone else. I've heard these christian phrases literally for years.

Regardless, the actions of the biblical god are often quite uncharacteristic of a truly advanced being. Wrath is one of those qualities. It is too human like [understandably]. And as for "justice", any ethical judge MUST be impartial, . . . and "wrath" is not.