Women...........

[Jethro Bodine]

You said in this post....Women...........

Don't misunderstand. I don't equate confidence with being stubborn and strong willed. I was sharing my general experience with the women I have known that are confident, that they are stubborn and strong willed. I know not to categorize ALL confident women that way.

Believe it or not, a good example for me of a confident, but godly woman is Sarah Palin. Who knows what it's really like in that family (when they're not beating up the neighbors, lol), but she comes across as an attractive, confident woman. And I mean attractive in the sense of her character. Obviously, I could be completely off, but that's my impression from what I see in the press.

 

[reba]

Not all women have the same personality... just as all men do not...

 

[Deborah13]

I've heard this before, and honestly, I have no respect for this attitude. They would not joke this way about a woman having confidence if they understood the very real damage unsubmissive women do in families and society.

He was speaking to his relationship with me not anyone else's or a world view. So it would be his prerogative joke about our relationship and what he prefers that to look like.

I would also suggest that overbearing and pride filled men do just as much damage to marriages as women do. Especially the ones who blame all the problems in their marriage on their wives.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I would also suggest that overbearing and pride filled men do just as much damage to marriages as women do. Especially the ones who blame all the problems in their marriage on their wives.

We all know this. That goes without saying. But I don't think that's a good way to soften up or draw full attention away from the truths we are addressing in this particular thread.

 

[reba]

Jethro can you show me scripture where women are to be submissive to anyone other man beside their husbands...

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro can you show me scripture where women are to be submissive to anyone other man beside their husbands...

"22 Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord." (Colossians 3:22 NASB)

"5 Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ; " (Ephesians 6:5 NASB)

Just because a woman isn't married to the man she's supposed to be submitting to doesn't mean she doesn't have to submit to him. Just as a man has to submit to the woman he's supposed to but who is not his spouse.

 

[Deborah13]

Are you suggesting women only have to grasp for equality with men when they aren't given that equality by men? You are dead wrong if you are. My experience is that women who are doing that already have that agenda in mind and will automatically assume you (the man) is trying to rob her of her perceived equality before it even happens--if it even happens.

As an aside, your husband does understand that men and women are not categorically and without exception equal in all things, right? Is he a Christian?

Of coarse he thinks woman are equal in all things. Equality is an attitude. It's not necessarily that one does the same things.

 

[reba]

Your verse are not to a gender... those verses are to Christians

 

[Edward]

I understand the original idea behind having the women dress to cover themselves up. Why tempt the populace? You wouldn't leave your wallet on the seat of your car and the top down and walk away from it. People could easily see it and be tempted to pick it up. Same thing. So why let the wife dress in daisy duke shorts and a halter top. It's asking for trouble. Its sort of odd that (Islam) the very sect of society that dress their women in burlap and only allow their eyes to be uncovered, also seriously mistreat the women and do not treat them as the treasure that the extreme modest dress intimates.

That sort of dress can be desirable in that on some level is implies wholesomeness. Would I make my wife dress like that? Not really. She can dress herself to a great extent. At some point it begins to become obvious that they're dressing to market themselves though, and at that point there's more problems in existence already than mere dress. Women that are married that continue to dress like that seem to be missing something about the sanctity of marriage and respect & reverence for the husband. Why does she need to dress like that if she isn't on the market? She doesn't need all men to notice her. A woman can dress sexy without showing a lot of skin. That looks really good if done right.

That a lot of women dress like tropical fish for the other women is apparent. Its misguided though. An ego and self esteem problem for sure. Is it fun for them to scare the other women? To me, it's not desirable in the least. It's a proclamation to the world that I'm comfortable crossing many lines that others wont.I guess I'm lucky that I never had to argue with my wife about her dressing like a tropical fish. She just didn't. She had a strong will and was very confident about herself, and rightly so. Overly submissive women are boring. I wont be pushed around by a woman but there's a certain amount of excitement to be found in a woman who wont be pushed around either. Oh yeah?!

 

[Deborah13]

"22 Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord." (Colossians 3:22 NASB)

"5 Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ; " (Ephesians 6:5 NASB)

Just because a woman isn't married to the man she's supposed to be submitting to doesn't mean she doesn't have to submit to him. Just as a man has to submit to the woman he's supposed to but who is not his spouse.

Who am I a slave to? My boss is not my master, I can leave any time I choose. My pastor is not my master, I can leave any time I choose.
Slaves are owed they cannot leave any time they choose.
You are forgetting that in those days there where REAL slaves that were owned by their masters.

 

[reba]

If short skirts are a sin so are levis

 

[Edward]

I've heard this before, and honestly, I have no respect for this attitude. They would not joke this way about a woman having confidence if they understood the very real damage unsubmissive women do in families and society.

This is true. But in the women who have no self restraint and take it too far. As in most things the sweet spot is in the middle of the extremes.

I was taught never to hit women, learned that early. I would proudly announce the fact that I had learned this also, and to my GF also. Then a not so funny thing happened. After she learned that Edward does not hit women, she took to emphasizing her point in arguments that would arise, with a slap to my face or similar. I realized what was going on one day...and knocked her on her butt when she hit me. One time. Then I modified my little cliche to, I don't hit women unnecessarily.

There's friendly arguments and then there's fighting. I'm not going to be a woman's punching bag. If she's big enough to hit a man, then she's big enough to pick herself up off the floor. lol.

 

[Edward]

If short skirts are a sin so are levis

Right. But there's short skirts, and then there's dressing to kill. Levis can be worn in that manner, and short skirts can be worn with an eye to a modest outfit also. Within reason.

 

[Deborah13]

I understand the original idea behind having the women dress to cover themselves up. Why tempt the populace? You wouldn't leave your wallet on the seat of your car and the top down and walk away from it. People could easily see it and be tempted to pick it up. Same thing. So why let the wife dress in daisy duke shorts and a halter top. It's asking for trouble. Its sort of odd that (Islam) the very sect of society that dress their women in burlap and only allow their eyes to be uncovered, also seriously mistreat the women and do not treat them as the treasure that the extreme modest dress intimates.

Why "let"? What will you do to stop her?

That sort of dress can be desirable in that on some level is implies wholesomeness. Would I make my wife dress like that? Not really. She can dress herself to a great extent. At some point it begins to become obvious that they're dressing to market themselves though, and at that point there's more problems in existence already than mere dress. Women that are married that continue to dress like that seem to be missing something about the sanctity of marriage and respect & reverence for the husband. Why does she need to dress like that if she isn't on the market? She doesn't need all men to notice her. A woman can dress sexy without showing a lot of skin. That looks really good if done right.

"Continue" to dress that way? If you didn't like the way she dressed before you married her, why in the world would you marry her and then except her to change?

That a lot of women dress like tropical fish for the other women is apparent. Its misguided though. An ego and self esteem problem for sure. Is it fun for them to scare the other women? To me, it's not desirable in the least. It's a proclamation to the world that I'm comfortable crossing many lines that others wont.I guess I'm lucky that I never had to argue with my wife about her dressing like a tropical fish. She just didn't. She had a strong will and was very confident about herself, and rightly so. Overly submissive women are boring. I wont be pushed around by a woman but there's a certain amount of excitement to be found in a woman who wont be pushed around either. Oh yeah?!

Well at least you can see my husband's point. Sometimes he does just that, poke poke, just to get a rise out of me. It's all in good fun. But he also likes it that I will state my opinion. There's nothing worse than a person who is too lazy to think and reason. But I imagine that there are men and women alike who prefer a slave.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Your verse are not to a gender... those verses are to Christians

You're asking me to defend an argument, Biblically, that I am not making. The scriptures I posted do defend the point I'm making.

 

[Deborah13]

If short skirts are a sin so are levis

lol
I'd say that for me that would be wranglers. My husband looks sinfully, outstanding in wranglers.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There's friendly arguments and then there's fighting. I'm not going to be a woman's punching bag. If she's big enough to hit a man, then she's big enough to pick herself up off the floor. lol.

Just make sure you get it on video so you can defend yourself fairly if it goes to court.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Who am I a slave to? My boss is not my master, I can leave any time I choose. My pastor is not my master, I can leave any time I choose.
Slaves are owed they cannot leave any time they choose.
You are forgetting that in those days there where REAL slaves that were owned by their masters.

BOOOOO! More liberal garbage to clutter up the truth in our churches. Shame on you! Stop distorting the truth!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Of coarse he thinks woman are equal in all things. Equality is an attitude. It's not necessarily that one does the same things.

More liberal unBiblical garbage. You and he apparently do not know the scriptures very well, or you have distorted them to your own liking.

 

[reba]

So often Jethro i agree with you but not this time...

Gal_3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.