Healing and visions?

[Willie T]

I'm still not understanding how someone can think satan would heal someone (if he could) who would then turn right around and give glory to God, thereby attracting even more people to God's kingdom.

And, despite a few people not recognizing God in it all, that is what almost always happens. After all, who, in their right mind, would flock to anyone giving glory to satan for their healing? So, if God gets the glory, wouldn't satan be shooting himself in the foot to even come within a hundred miles of any healing going on..................... except, of course, to try and convince some people searching for a reason not to believe, that none of it is really happening.

 

[gr8grace3]

So the devil convinced you that the gift of tongues is nonexistent.

That's too bad.
.

No, bible doctrine taught me that tongues today is edited emotional arrogance. edited

Isaiah 28:11 (NASB95)
11 Indeed, He will speak to this people(The Jew)

Through stammering lips and a foreign tongue,

1 Corinthians 14:21 (NASB95)
21 In the Law it is written, “By men of strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people(the Jew),and even so they will not listen to Me,” says the Lord.

Client nation status of the Jew ended in 70 AD

So, what do we have today?

Isaiah 29:4 (NASB95)
4 Then you will be brought low;

From the earth you will speak,

And from the dust where you are prostrate

Your words will come.


edited reba
violation TOS
7) Do not post opinions of another member's claim of Christian faith. (ToS 2.4)
Publicly judging someone as not being a Christian and/or not following Christ unless they themselves claim not be a Christian is disallowed. That's between them and the Lord. This includes judgments against collective beliefs or groups in general. admin

 

[Brother Mike]

If a person ask God for the Holy spirit he won't give him a scorpion.

Jesus cast out Devils by Devils. 16 years speaking in tongues and I assure everyone it's the real gift and available to anyone that will believe.

Removed replies to edited post

 

[Brother Mike]

I'm still not understanding how someone can think satan would heal someone (if he could) who would then turn right around and give glory to God, thereby attracting even more people to God's kingdom.

And, despite a few people not recognizing God in it all, that is what almost always happens. After all, who, in their right mind, would flock to anyone giving glory to satan for their healing? So, if God gets the glory, wouldn't satan be shooting himself in the foot to even come within a hundred miles of any healing going on..................... except, of course, to try and convince some people searching for a reason not to believe, that none of it is really happening.

Where does Satan have any ability to heal. There is no life in him, and he can't even keep his own alive long enough to make a lasting impact. He ends up destroying everyone who follows him. Even Jesus he would have not touched him had he any wisdom.

Satan could not heal a stubbed toe, it would rot away if he tried. Where do these crazy doctrines come from?

, Jesus said the father would not give you a serpent and already covered that argument, knowing there would be people in the future.

 

[Willie T]

Sometimes it is hard to tell if you are saying "Yes" or "No", Brother Mike.... whether you are for, or against something.

Any chance you could be encouraged to spend the time to maybe type a couple of words of clarification of position in some of your posts?

 

[Brother Mike]

Was on a tablet, so less typing seems better. Just agreeing with you that the devil is not in the healing business today or ever. Thought that tongues come from devils is blasphemy. Just running thoughts by you. I am not against people. I just wonder how some could be so confused. Those pastors teaching these false things have to be judged, receiving the greater condemnation teaching thing they have no knowledge of.

If I want my car fixed I don't take it to the wife hairdresser. If I want to know about tongues I ask the person who through faith and patience have inherited the promises and speaks in tongues. Not the guy that says they passed away.

I'll try to be more clear on position. But if it's faith in God and power of the Holy spirit I am on that side.

 

[Willie T]

Was on a tablet, so less typing seems better. Just agreeing with you that the devil is not in the healing business today or ever. Thought that tongues come from devils is blasphemy. Just running thoughts by you. I am not against people. I just wonder how some could be so confused. Those pastors teaching these false things have to be judged, receiving the greater condemnation teaching thing they have no knowledge of.

If I want my car fixed I don't take it to the wife hairdresser. If I want to know about tongues I ask the person who through faith and patience have inherited the promises and speaks in tongues. Not the guy that says they passed away.

I'll try to be more clear on position. But if it's faith in God and power of the Holy spirit I am on that side.

Thanks for that. I knew that about you, but sometimes people will grab onto posts that aren't plainly obviously pointed and clear, thinking whatever they have on their minds has now been validated, when just the opposite was the original intent of the post.

 

[gr8grace3]

Was on a tablet, so less typing seems better. Just agreeing with you that the devil is not in the healing business today or ever. Thought that tongues come from devils is blasphemy. Just running thoughts by you. I am not against people. I just wonder how some could be so confused. Those pastors teaching these false things have to be judged, receiving the greater condemnation teaching thing they have no knowledge of.

If I want my car fixed I don't take it to the wife hairdresser. If I want to know about tongues I ask the person who through faith and patience have inherited the promises and speaks in tongues. Not the guy that says they passed away.

I'll try to be more clear on position. But if it's faith in God and power of the Holy spirit I am on that side.

Isaiah 29:4 translation: NASB NIV MSG
29:4 Then you will be brought low; From the earth you will speak, And from the dust where you are prostrate Your words will come. Your voice will also be like that of a spirit from the ground, And your speech will whisper from the dust.

a necromancer
Original Word: אוֹב
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: ob
Phonetic Spelling: (obe)
Short Definition: mediums

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...I wanted her healed so badly that I was in tears and told God I myself would bear the pain and sickness for her if he would only heal her.

That is what an intercessory gift looks/ feels like in a person.

But my prayers were not answered...

It may appear to you that God is not going to answer. All you're responsible for is to be faithful in acting on the impulse to care and pray for people when God lays it on you through a gift.

Sometimes I get these images and feelings put into my head, some people tell me they are visions others say they are holy spirit inspired thoughts Idk what they are but as I wrote it I saw what looked like the Lord moving and popping bones and body parts back into place and healing them with a soothing feeling that kind of tingles. I saw him holding the heart of the broken souls who are in misery sadness and anguish and held them with such care and love then close his hands around the heart and begin to mold it while healing it with the same soothing tingling feeling. I saw him touching the body of someone and healing it curing it of all sickness and pain.

This is the 'word of knowledge' gift. These and similar gifts get relegated in the church to the works of darkness because so many people with this gift have decided, like Balaam, to make merchandise of their gift. Like Balamm's gift, the gift is legitimate, but the motivation for using is not. The motivation in using it (ie, for profit) is what causes so many to think those kinds of gifts are fake, and/or belong to the devil ('a house divided can not stand').

This isnt the first time I have seen something like this regarding healing, there were plenty of times I saw me reaching out my hand and putting it on the computer screen to heal the afflicted and as I did I saw what looked like the Lords hand extending into the web all the way to the person and healing them. I desperately want to heal people but i dont have the power or ability, I look inside myself and I feel an emptiness where the gift of healing is. I have asked God about this so many times but he doesnt answer

What do you mean you don't have the ability? What's going on inside of you shows that you have the ability through various spiritual gifts that God has given you.

Get in a good Bible study, led and controlled by a legitimate leader of the church, where people openly share their lives and experiences as the group reads and makes life application of the word. As needs come up and the Spirit of God moves in you pray according to what God places in your heart. Don't be shy. And don't worry about the results...that's God business. Your job is to be faithful to let the Spirit moving in you find expression in the lives of other people God is directing you to.

The danger in all of this for you, and others gifted in profound ways, is pride. Don't tune out just yet. It's awesome to have an enabling of power by the Spirit of God. Our humanness wants to let everyone know about it and seek positions of status within the church. I suggest you keep it between you and God and exercise it entirely with the motive of 1) pleasing God, and 2) helping the people whom God has burdened you to intercede for. These are your rewards (pleasing God/ helping people). Let promotion come from other people as they see for themselves that you do indeed have power and giftedness. I'm confident that if you keep the temptation to pride and boasting under control (as all gifted people must do) you will see that God is more than able to fill you with the joy and satisfaction and peace of serving him with the gift(s) he has given you, and promotion and status in the church will be a distant third reward...very distant by comparison.

Have at it! Get around the body of Christ in informal, but controlled, settings and let the Spirit of God do what the Spirit of God wants to do through you for other people according to your gift. You already know how to tell when God is moving you to do that, now you just need the opportunity to do it. Caring for other people and ministering to them through your gift and the fruit of the Spirit, because you care for them, is what partaking of the divine nature is all about.

 

[Brother Mike]

Ppl

Isaiah 29:4 translation: NASB NIV MSG
29:4 Then you will be brought low; From the earth you will speak, And from the dust where you are prostrate Your words will come. Your voice will also be like that of a spirit from the ground, And your speech will whisper from the dust.

The whole passage is about a whole city called Ariel. It was brought down that it had no more Strong voice like a spirit from the ground. Let's say God is talking about a real spirit who is speaking. Because there are talking spirits, then that invalidates tongues?

edited reba

 

[gr8grace3]

Ppl

The whole passage is about a whole city called Ariel. It was brought down that it had no more Strong voice like a spirit from the ground. Let's say God is talking about a real spirit who is speaking. Because there are talking spirits, then that invalidates tongues?

May I ask your age. The logic level denotes someone young and it may be best to jump out of this and let someone who is anointed to help youth take over.

Ppl

The whole passage is about a whole city called Ariel. It was brought down that it had no more Strong voice like a spirit from the ground. Let's say God is talking about a real spirit who is speaking. Because there are talking spirits, then that invalidates tongues?

edited reba

Ariel is "code" for Jerusalem. It means The Lion of God.

Don't Get me wrong, tongues were valid from 30AD to 70AD. It is interesting that Isaiah 29 is the siege of Jerusalem. 70 AD.

Isaiah 28 we have the prophecy of tongues(a language) to the Jew(this people) 30AD. Isaiah 29 we have the siege of Jerusalem 70 AD. The end of their client nation status. And the end of tongues......This invalidates tongues IMO.

The point with this verse is that there ARE talking spirits and this spirit in Isaiah 29:4 is OB/OBE or EGGASTROMUTHOS ventriloquist demon. Pseudo-tongues.

So what I am saying, If one believes in tongues and is practicing tongues. One had better be very discerning, because there is a demon that copies it.

 

[for_his_glory]

I believe the gift of healing stopped around 96 AD. Healing was done to establish the authority of the teacher or message. Once the authority and message was established,the gift waned. Paul, had a few friends at the end of his ministry that he left sick because his message and authority had been established. The Bible is our final authority and message and it was completed around 96 AD.

God does heal, but no man has the gift of healing in today's dispensation.

Suffering for blessing is a gift from God. And He uses suffering to grow us,to teach us or to show us something. So we even have to be careful for praying for people who suffer. They may be suffering for blessing.

Philippians 1:29 (NASB95)
29 For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,

It is Gods will that some of us suffer 1 Peter 3:17 NASB~~For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.

Do you believe God is the same yesterday, today and forever according to Hebrews 13:8. I'm sure you will say yes. OK, then explain 1Co 12:9 for if Jesus is the same forever then the gifts of the Holy Spirit in whom works through us would also still be in effect until the coming of the Lord. I have laid hands on others and have seen their healing as the Holy Spirit was the one who did the healing as I am only a vessel that God works through.

 

[Gary]

No, bible doctrine taught me that tongues today is edited emotional arrogance. edited

Isaiah 28:11 (NASB95)
11 Indeed, He will speak to this people(The Jew)

Through stammering lips and a foreign tongue,

1 Corinthians 14:21 (NASB95)
21 In the Law it is written, “By men of strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people(the Jew),and even so they will not listen to Me,” says the Lord.

Client nation status of the Jew ended in 70 AD

So, what do we have today?

Isaiah 29:4 (NASB95)
4 Then you will be brought low;

From the earth you will speak,

And from the dust where you are prostrate

Your words will come.

Three verses out 31,000. I assumed there would've been more. Are these your personal interpretations or is this something collected from the various websites on the interlinks? It really doesn't matter I guess, because nowhere in those 3 verses do I see any confirmation of your claim that tongues no longer exist.

Do you have anything that is more concrete? Something that comes right out and confirms your claim? Something that doesn't require one to use their imagination would be great.

Thanks.

edited reba
violation TOS
7) Do not post opinions of another member's claim of Christian faith. (ToS 2.4)
Publicly judging someone as not being a Christian and/or not following Christ unless they themselves claim not be a Christian is disallowed. That's between them and the Lord. This includes judgments against collective beliefs or groups in general. admin

I would've really liked to have seen what was written here. (perhaps you could PM me) But even though I am not privy to the condemnation, the Lord is and that's all that counts.

Have a blessed day my friend.
.

 

[Willie T]

I'll just keep on repeating it, Grace3, Satan is not going to do anything that only brings glory to God.

 

[Gary]

So what I am saying, If one believes in tongues and is practicing tongues. One had better be very discerning, because there is a demon that copies it.

Demons copy everything and by your own admission here, you do believe tongues exist. Otherwise, why would one need to be "very discerning" when confronted with tongues?

Edited

Pick a spot and make a stand. Tongues either exist or they don't.
.

 

[Brother Mike]

Ariel is "code" for Jerusalem. It means The Lion of God.

Don't Get me wrong, tongues were valid from 30AD to 70AD. It is interesting that Isaiah 29 is the siege of Jerusalem. 70 AD.

Isaiah 28 we have the prophecy of tongues(a language) to the Jew(this people) 30AD. Isaiah 29 we have the siege of Jerusalem 70 AD. The end of their client nation status. And the end of tongues......This invalidates tongues IMO.

The point with this verse is that there ARE talking spirits and this spirit in Isaiah 29:4 is OB/OBE or EGGASTROMUTHOS ventriloquist demon. Pseudo-tongues.

So what I am saying, If one believes in tongues and is practicing tongues. One had better be very discerning, because there is a demon that copies it.

I suppose, but I have talked to real devils myself, some sound like a whisper, lots of stories of people who hear voices muttering something to them unintelligible. I never made the connection with a spirits ability to speak, to Tongues not being for believers for today.

It's like me saying it's not God's will to heal and pointing out Jacob hurt his hip and did not heal it. Jesus only healed that "ONE" at the well. God killed David's baby with sickness.

It's going out of my way to not want to believe something with extreme comparisons. If we had scriptures saying beware the devil, for He can mimic the Holy Spirit, then you might have a point there. We are told many False Christ go out saying "I am the Christ" or I am anointed of God to help you (Christ means anointing) They possibly could speak gibberish then interpreter the money out of folks pockets. I can see that. It still does not invalidate the gift of tongues though.

Paul said Despise not prophesying but prove all things, hold to that which is true.

Just like today, many folks claim thus saith the Lord, when the Lord never said a word of it. It gets annoying and old, and folks turn it off and might miss the Real that could have helped.


Tongues is the same way, despite what others believe, does not change the fact tongues are here, they help, it's a form a prayer, and it's for EVERY believer to edify themselves to help others.

If it's real, it proves itself out, but nothing moves concerning the Word unless we believe first. Many want to doubt then have the Word produce, but that is not how it works.

If the Lord speaks to me to go somewhere or do something, I go. I don't sit around wondering if that was God or not. I step out and do it. Sometimes it's not God, or I only got part of the message and added in to fill in the blanks. That is my fault, not God's. It does not mean I don't hear God.

 

[for_his_glory]

What was the message in your first experience with tongues?

We had a fella claim that he spoke tongues. He spoke it and we just "happened" to have another fella from Africa that spoke the language. The message was "curse Jesus Christ." over and over again. This is my experience with tongues.

I would discern that message as a message from Satan and not from the Holy Spirit. Even Satan takes a seat and tries to speak in many Churches. 1 John 4:1-6 teaches us how to discern what spirits are speaking as one is truth and the other error. One bad experience does not nullify that of truth.

 

[gr8grace3]

Do you believe God is the same yesterday, today and forever according to Hebrews 13:8. I'm sure you will say yes. OK, then explain 1Co 12:9 for if Jesus is the same forever then the gifts of the Holy Spirit in whom works through us would also still be in effect until the coming of the Lord. I have laid hands on others and have seen their healing as the Holy Spirit was the one who did the healing as I am only a vessel that God works through.

Yes Jesus is the same forever. But his policies towards mankind will and do change. You even describe it as only being in effect until He comes.

I just believe the gift of healing ended in 96 AD. But we both have an ending to it at some point in time, yet Jesus remains the same.

As to 1 Cor 12:9 the faith and the healing were both temporary spiritual gifts. Paul had both temporary gifts of "All " faith and healing....1 Cor 13:2

But Pauls temporary gift left him as his message and authority were established.

2 Tim 4:20~~Erastus remained at Corinth, but Trophimus I left sick at Miletus

Do you think that you had to lay your hands on the person to heal them?

This is what I believe goes on with most healings today. There is a spiritually mature believer, that knows the will of God and prayed for the healing. We won't know their name and they will not divulge information to anyone. They were probably on periphery of the "show" and prayed the right prayer. And we will not know who it was. This is for the legitimate healings that happen for today. That spiritually mature believer does not have "the gift" he was just in the right spot with the right prayer.

 

[for_his_glory]

Blain, I think allenwynne gave you the best answer in reply # 2. The only thing I could add to what he has said are these verses:
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I've had two knee replacements and one hip replacement and will have the other hip done in a couple of years. I have severe arthritis in my lower back which causes great pain at times and it is very hard for me to walk or do many things I used to do. I have prayed and had others pray for my healing, but never received my physical healing, but have received Spiritual healing that I truly needed. I can pray for others and even lay hands on them and see the manifestation of the Holy Spirit working through me for their physical healings, but yet have never received my own. I use to question God about this for years until I quit asking why and started being still long enough for God to answer me. His answer to me particular was that the flesh will ware down and eventually die and that I need not take concern of a physical healing, but that I needed Spiritual healing more. I had to ponder that for awhile and my understanding came in reading Colossians 3:1-4 that I needed to seek out those Spiritual things from above and not be so fixated on my own physical life here on earth. There is nothing within my physical pain that can stop me from being that servant of God He has called me to be. Yes, I would love to be pain free, but it is no longer a concern for me personally as even though my body may be broken my spirit is not. I might have pain, but it doesn't have me.

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

 

[KevinK]

Just give a couple of examples of the types of healings you're referring to. (ie. cured of cancer, the lame walk, the blind see etc.) Something that is without a doubt, miraculous.

OK...psychic healing. The person receiving the healing (from me) suddenly turns to me and says, "Kevin, you're glowing." I looked at myself; I was glowing. I looked at my friend, "You're glowing, too". I looked around; the whole room was glowing. A bright, golden glow in a room that had no windows.

I don't know if this was from God or someone else, but I don't mess with it any more.