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Annihilationism, do the Wicked Perish?

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Carry_Your_Name said:
You know, indeed this may help you know ABOUT God and deepen my understanding of the Holy Trinity, but no matter what amount of such materials I read and study, God is still distant like the sun in the sky; it's still a religion, not a relationship. To really know God, closely, intimately, one must taste and see Him, and to be honest, I don't think I could either taste or see Him through an endless theology debate of either annihilationism or the nature of the trinity.
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I agree. My personal relationship with God began before I intellectually grasped the Holy Trinity using the Teachers God gave to the Church:

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: (Eph. 4:11-13 KJV)
 
Butch5 said:
11 `For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.' (Lev. 17:11 NKJ)

The word life in this passage is the word soul. For the soul of the flesh is in the blood. The translators understand the word nepehsh, soul, to be life.

19 And in a window sat a certain young man named Eutychus, who was sinking into a deep sleep. He was overcome by sleep; and as Paul continued speaking, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead.
10 But Paul went down, fell on him, and embracing him said, "Do not trouble yourselves, for his life is in him."
(Acts 20:9-10 NKJ)

Again, soul is life.

9 And the LORD said to Moses in Midian, "Go, return to Egypt; for all the men who sought your life are dead." (Exod. 4:19 NKJ)

Were the men seeking Moses' ghost or his life?

23 "Only be sure that you do not eat the blood, for the blood is the life; you may not eat the life with the meat. (Deut. 12:23 NKJ)

Is the blood the life of the meat or is it the ghost of the meat?

11 And David said to Abishai and all his servants, "See how my son who came from my own body seeks my life. How much more now may this Benjamite? Let him alone, and let him curse; for so the LORD has ordered him. (2 Sam. 16:11 NKJ)

Is he seeking to end David's life or his ghost?

24 So they went in to offer sacrifices and burnt offerings. Now Jehu had appointed for himself eighty men on the outside, and had said, "If any of the men whom I have brought into your hands escapes, whoever lets him escape, it shall be his life for the life of the other." (2 Ki. 10:24 NKJ)

Is Jehu requiring life (soul) for life (soul) or is he requiring ghost for ghost. How does one kill a ghost?

20 But the eyes of the wicked will fail, And they shall not escape, And their hope-- loss of life!" (Job 11:20 NKJ)

Do the wicked lose their life (soul) or their ghost?

2 Let them be ashamed and confounded Who seek my life; Let them be turned back and confused Who desire my hurt. (Ps. 70:2 NKJ)

Are they seeking to end his life (soul) or his ghost?

7 Peter said to Him, "Lord, why can I not follow You now? I will lay down my life for Your sake."
38 Jesus answered him, "Will you lay down your life for My sake? Most assuredly, I say to you, the rooster shall not crow till you have denied Me three times. (Jn. 13:37-38 NKJ)

Was Peter offering to lay down his life (soul) for Jesus or was he going to lay down his ghost for Jesus?


26 "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. (Lk. 14:26 NKJ)

Does one have to hate his own life for Jesus or his own ghost?

There are literally dozens of passages like this.
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Yes, soul is life, so if the person sins, he will die..
 
Alfred Persson said:
Who is cherry picking? Where are the versions that agree with you? New World Translation by Jehovah's Witnesses?

I didn't cherry pick, I copied pasted the versions in BibleWorks 10. All of them. Only THE ROTHERHAM BIBLE put the comma as you wanted, and reading the verse still communicated the promise would be fulfilled that very day they died:

And he said unto him--Verily, I say unto thee this day: With me, shalt thou be in Paradise. (Lk. 23:43 ROT)

You are wrong. I proved it in every post.

As I just did again.
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No, you've just proved that you haven't done the research. The comma is in the same place because you posted translations from people who believe man is alive after death. Of course they're all going to put it there. The problem is that position doesn't address the context. The thief didn't ask Jesus where they would be later that afternoon. He wanted to be remembered in the Kingdom. So, either Paradise is a reference to the Kingdom or Jesus ignored his question.

Another problem with your position is that Jesus was in the tomb for three days. So, He couldn't be in Paradise that day.
 
Guys, look at the word order.

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 1 Pe 3:17–20.

First He suffered, then He was put to death, then He was resurrected, then He went and proclaimed a message to the spirits (demons) in prison. What He proclaimed, Peter tells us in verse 22.

22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. 1 Pe 3:22.

When Christ was raised from the dead, He was given all authority.

All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Mt 28:18–20.

According to Peter He went and proclaimed this to the spirits (demons) in prison.
 
Butch5 said:
Guys, look at the word order.

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 1 Pe 3:17–20.

First He suffered, then He was put to death, then He was resurrected, then He went and proclaimed a message to the spirits (demons) in prison. What He proclaimed, Peter tells us in verse 22.

22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. 1 Pe 3:22.

When Christ was raised from the dead, He was given all authority.

All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Mt 28:18–20.

According to Peter He went and proclaimed this to the spirits (demons) in prison.
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And this explains the empty tomb. Neither did he roll away the stone nor climb out like Lazarus. An angel rolled away the stone, not to let Jesus out, but to let the women in, and then John and Peter. The linen clothes in which he was wrapped were "folded together in one place" instead of spreading out (Jn. 20:6-7), as though he was evaporated. That's because "he went and preached unto the spirits in prison", he never rotted in the tomb for one second.
 
Butch5 said:
According to Peter He went and proclaimed this to the spirits (demons) in prison.
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I see spirits in prison and see nothing to the effect that they are demons :chin . Verse 19 does not say evil spirits , so why do you say (demons) ?

1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
Yes, more like divine judgement upon the fallen angels.

I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.
But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.” (Ps. 82:6)
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Ok , are you going to talk about demons (evil spirits) or fallen angels ? Those two are not the same .

Devine judgement is not mentioned , preaching is the word used .
 
hawkman said:
I see spirits in prison and see nothing to the effect that they are demons :chin . Verse 19 does not say evil spirits , so why do you say (demons) ?

1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
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I doubt the good angels would be in prison. The ones mentioned were disobedient in the days of Noah.

It can only the good angels or the disobedient ones.
 
Butch5 said:
I doubt the good angels would be in prison. The ones mentioned were disobedient in the days of Noah.

It can only the good angels or the disobedient ones.
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In your opinion are demons and fallen angels the same ?
 
Butch5 said:
The Scriptures use those terms interchangeably. Yes, they would be the same.
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I have not seen any scriptures to that effect . Please show me the scriptures that use the terms fallen angel and demon interchangeably .
 
Butch5 said:
I don't believe people are spirits. Scripture tells us that man is flesh and flesh isn't a spirit.
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Well now , ok why don't you go to this thread and give your thoughts on the created makeup of man . And we can proceed from there :) .


Understanding Our Created Makeup

I keep seeing confusion by some on what the breath of life means with how God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life, and Adam became a living soul. Heb 4:12 12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of...
christianforums.net
 
hawkman said:
Well now , ok why don't you go to this thread and give your thoughts on the created makeup of man . And we can proceed from there :) .


Understanding Our Created Makeup

I keep seeing confusion by some on what the breath of life means with how God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life, and Adam became a living soul. Heb 4:12 12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of...
christianforums.net
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I'm familiar with all of that. I think there's an assumption made that is unwarranted. He says the spirit that goes back to God isn't the vital life force given by God. I don't know where he got that idea. When I look at the creation of man I only see one breath/spirit that God put into man and that was the one that gave him life, the breath of life.

Additionally, he proposes the idea of re-incarnation. The Bible speaks of resurrection.
 
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