Drew
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
ARE GAY PEOPLE BORN THAT WAY ?
- Thread starter HOLLYROCK
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Comprehender
Member
Homosexuality is deemed as "death" by an ex-homosexual & ex-gay rights leader, Michale Glatze. Statistically, according to the US CDC homosexual practices present risks... since homosexuals switch partners often, they are more likely to get STDs & AIDS (which 2 friends of mine died from).
<!-- m -->http://www.cdc.gov/stdconference/2000/m ... ay2000.htm<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/doc<!-- m -->
Evidence shows being gay IS a choice, more linked to environmental influences than to biology...
Science Does NOT Support the Claim That Homosexuality Is Genetic
<!-- m -->http://www.cwfa.org/images/content/bornorbred.pdf<!-- m -->
Homosexual Researchers Debunk ‘Born Gay’ Urban Legend
<!-- m -->http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/724179/posts<!-- m -->
"1. No research has found provable biological or genetic differences between heterosexuals & homosexuals that weren't caused by their behavior.
2. In 2 large studies conducted... Homosexuals overwhelmingly believed their feelings and behavior were the result of social or environmental influences.
3. Older homosexuals often approach the young
4. Early homosexual experiences influence adult patters of behavior
5. Sexual conduct is influenced by cultural factors - esp. religious convictions
6. Many change their sexual preferences
7. There are many ex-homosexuals"
Environmental factors may influence sexual orientation
<!-- m -->http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archiv ... t/06102608<!-- m -->
The APA changed the definition of homosexuality not because of scientific studies, but because of political harrassment from gay lobbyists.
<!-- m -->http://www.freewebs.com/theborngayhoax/theapa.htm
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Christ_empowered
Member
I think its a little unfair to say homosexuality is a choice. Consummation of homosexual lusts is, obviously, a choice, but the inclination itself...not so much. Besides, everybody is in two camps: slaves of sin+slaves of righteousness. Those in the former will probably go for the gay if they feel so inclined, simply because there's much less secular pressure to do otherwise than in the past. Also, I think that as gay becomes more OK, we might have more people at least dabble in it, particularly men. I mean, if you're a young dude and a sinner, what could be more appealing than frequent, meaningless hook ups? Just a guess...I have absolutely no evidence to back that one up.
What's unfortunate is that same-sex behavior often starts young(ish), so then the inclinations are linked with the behaviors and the desires grow. At least..that's my take on it. Clearly, I'm not an expert. So, even if someone wants to give it up for spiritual reasons or simply because homosexuality is often a dead end, if you look at it rationally, its hard. I mean, how do you break down behavior and attraction patterns that have been built up from childhood (inclinations) on through the earliest years of sexual awareness? This is one reason I'm personally thinking an extended period of celibacy may be appropriate for me. I've read that the "ex-gay" movement is leaning more towards celibacy, too. The Catholics--how I love them--think that the sex drive is "amenable to reason," and that if you can follow the (admittedly strict) rules on sexual behavior, then you'll end up with desires more in line with Christian morality. Or, I'm hoping, a little less sinful, at least.
What's unfortunate is that same-sex behavior often starts young(ish), so then the inclinations are linked with the behaviors and the desires grow. At least..that's my take on it. Clearly, I'm not an expert. So, even if someone wants to give it up for spiritual reasons or simply because homosexuality is often a dead end, if you look at it rationally, its hard. I mean, how do you break down behavior and attraction patterns that have been built up from childhood (inclinations) on through the earliest years of sexual awareness? This is one reason I'm personally thinking an extended period of celibacy may be appropriate for me. I've read that the "ex-gay" movement is leaning more towards celibacy, too. The Catholics--how I love them--think that the sex drive is "amenable to reason," and that if you can follow the (admittedly strict) rules on sexual behavior, then you'll end up with desires more in line with Christian morality. Or, I'm hoping, a little less sinful, at least.
Comprehender
Member
Drew,
I do not doubt that you and others have very real feelings for the same sex.
We know that when we act on thoughts and feelings, our physiology is affected & hormones can change & affect us - like a cycle.
Yet, we also know that we are born with brains only 1/4 developed, so we can better adapt to environmental influences.
Studies show that environmental influences are tied to developing homosexual preferences...(ie being molested, having dominant mother & passive or absent fathers affect men esp.) The rare exception is hermaphrodites. I'd guess that some might be affected by any drugs a mother might take during pregnancy - but I haven't seen any links to homosexual preferences.
Drew, I hope you feel loved. I imagine it's been hard for you & others struggling with conflicting feelings. I saw a friend of mine get teased in school because he had feminine manners - I stood up for him & told the other guy off. He now has homosexual preferences. His brother commited suicide - their familiy had some issues. I feel for him & others going through difficult things like this.
I hope & pray you feel God's love, light and guidance.
I know God loves you no matter what & is always rooting for the best for you!
I do not doubt that you and others have very real feelings for the same sex.
We know that when we act on thoughts and feelings, our physiology is affected & hormones can change & affect us - like a cycle.
Yet, we also know that we are born with brains only 1/4 developed, so we can better adapt to environmental influences.
Studies show that environmental influences are tied to developing homosexual preferences...(ie being molested, having dominant mother & passive or absent fathers affect men esp.) The rare exception is hermaphrodites. I'd guess that some might be affected by any drugs a mother might take during pregnancy - but I haven't seen any links to homosexual preferences.
Drew, I hope you feel loved. I imagine it's been hard for you & others struggling with conflicting feelings. I saw a friend of mine get teased in school because he had feminine manners - I stood up for him & told the other guy off. He now has homosexual preferences. His brother commited suicide - their familiy had some issues. I feel for him & others going through difficult things like this.
I hope & pray you feel God's love, light and guidance.
I know God loves you no matter what & is always rooting for the best for you!
FrMattCH
Member
Matthew 19:12
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
<sup class="versenum">12 </sup>For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it.
Are eunuchs homosexual? This is common thinking from most people I have talked to and experienced study time with. However, it is not. Not according to Strong's Lexicon
Result of search for "eunuch":
2134. eunouchizo yoo-noo-khid'-zo from 2135; to castrate (figuratively, live unmarried):--make...eunuch. <hr>2135. eunouchos yoo-noo'-khos from eune (a bed) and 2192; a castrated person (such being employed in Oriental bed-chambers); by extension an impotent or unmarried man; by implication, a chamberlain (state-officer):--eunuch.
<hr>Do I believe that some people, whether male or female, are born with the pre-disposition to satisfy homosexual tendencies? Yes and no. I believe some people are either curious or some other factor.
Do I think that some people find it easier to make friends and relate to the same sex therefore confusing love with misguided sexual desire. Yes, I do.
Is homosexuality wrong? Yes, it is. It is fornication, pre-marital sex, and adultry.
God loves everyone, this is assured. However, when we are born again we are born anew. The old is washed away. Is it possible for old afflictions to linger or stay at the front? Yes, but we must lean to Jesus for our help and guidance.
As a finishing thought about Matthew 19:12
Jesus says there are men who will not have sexual union with women for many reasons, and He lists some of these reasons. He says some people will not have sexual union at all as they were born without the ability to be in union with a woman (as from birth defects or being sexually impotent) from their mother's womb. In other words, because of being born unable to perform because of physical circumstances.
One thing is for absolute certain: Jesus Christ is Love. His love is unconditional, as we seek him this is revealed more and more. Thusly, it has been my experience that as Jesus loves then as Christ followers we should try to emulate this love that the Master teaches. It has also been my experience that the following is true: As we become stronger Christ followers our minds and attitudes change from the guidance of Jesus and we are better at cutting sin off at the pass so to speak.
With this in mind I would think that the "Blame and finger pointing game" become circumvented with compassion, teaching, and love.
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
<sup class="versenum">12 </sup>For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it.
Are eunuchs homosexual? This is common thinking from most people I have talked to and experienced study time with. However, it is not. Not according to Strong's Lexicon
Result of search for "eunuch":
2134. eunouchizo yoo-noo-khid'-zo from 2135; to castrate (figuratively, live unmarried):--make...eunuch. <hr>2135. eunouchos yoo-noo'-khos from eune (a bed) and 2192; a castrated person (such being employed in Oriental bed-chambers); by extension an impotent or unmarried man; by implication, a chamberlain (state-officer):--eunuch.
<hr>Do I believe that some people, whether male or female, are born with the pre-disposition to satisfy homosexual tendencies? Yes and no. I believe some people are either curious or some other factor.
Do I think that some people find it easier to make friends and relate to the same sex therefore confusing love with misguided sexual desire. Yes, I do.
Is homosexuality wrong? Yes, it is. It is fornication, pre-marital sex, and adultry.
God loves everyone, this is assured. However, when we are born again we are born anew. The old is washed away. Is it possible for old afflictions to linger or stay at the front? Yes, but we must lean to Jesus for our help and guidance.
As a finishing thought about Matthew 19:12
Jesus says there are men who will not have sexual union with women for many reasons, and He lists some of these reasons. He says some people will not have sexual union at all as they were born without the ability to be in union with a woman (as from birth defects or being sexually impotent) from their mother's womb. In other words, because of being born unable to perform because of physical circumstances.
One thing is for absolute certain: Jesus Christ is Love. His love is unconditional, as we seek him this is revealed more and more. Thusly, it has been my experience that as Jesus loves then as Christ followers we should try to emulate this love that the Master teaches. It has also been my experience that the following is true: As we become stronger Christ followers our minds and attitudes change from the guidance of Jesus and we are better at cutting sin off at the pass so to speak.
With this in mind I would think that the "Blame and finger pointing game" become circumvented with compassion, teaching, and love.
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i agree with pretty much every thing Drew as said.
and the answer is no, i am staying celibate, i said if i found someone like that would i go for a relationship sure why not, but the fact is, im not looking for someone or anyone.
i am a firm believer you are either born gay or straight. you can quote as many Scientists that say you arnt as i can quote many that say you are.
@phantom im going to call you out personally and say that some of the things you are saying are hurtful and rude, tone it down. have your opinion yes, but thank goodness i am not the type of person to get hurt easy. there are many people struggling with this and you need to take a more respectful approach. also a more loving one. also yes you do have a choice as to who you kiss and to who you hold your hand with but this isnt what sexuality is and if you think it is, you are mistaken. there a certain things people are attracted too, for some men its a more physically developed woman for some they dont like all that. sexuality isnt just kissing its who are attracted to emotionally, i will never be attracted emotional to a woman and thats just that not only that but i think the woman body is not one of my preference obviously, quit thinking of everything so sex based.
@reba i read your post frequently i like you a lot
.
@comphrehender your post about homosexuals switch partners often is a STEREOTYPE i know some lesbians that have been together for 25 years and have never had a previous sexual or any other type of relationship
and the answer is no, i am staying celibate, i said if i found someone like that would i go for a relationship sure why not, but the fact is, im not looking for someone or anyone.
i am a firm believer you are either born gay or straight. you can quote as many Scientists that say you arnt as i can quote many that say you are.
@phantom im going to call you out personally and say that some of the things you are saying are hurtful and rude, tone it down. have your opinion yes, but thank goodness i am not the type of person to get hurt easy. there are many people struggling with this and you need to take a more respectful approach. also a more loving one. also yes you do have a choice as to who you kiss and to who you hold your hand with but this isnt what sexuality is and if you think it is, you are mistaken. there a certain things people are attracted too, for some men its a more physically developed woman for some they dont like all that. sexuality isnt just kissing its who are attracted to emotionally, i will never be attracted emotional to a woman and thats just that not only that but i think the woman body is not one of my preference obviously, quit thinking of everything so sex based.
@reba i read your post frequently i like you a lot
. @comphrehender your post about homosexuals switch partners often is a STEREOTYPE i know some lesbians that have been together for 25 years and have never had a previous sexual or any other type of relationship
P
phantom309
Guest
Look here..Ive tried the nice way,and it looks as if no matter how its approached neither of you want anything to do with civil conversation.So,since you want to "call me out",Im here.What I see is 2 narrow-minded people,so much to the point that if anyone disagrees with them in the slightest way theyre willing to bash them in the head right before they scream for help from the mods and proceed to further launch insults.
My comments still stand,and if you dont agree with them..once again..quite frankly I dont care.If this is the approach you take in life to everyone disagreeing with how you see things then you have a long road ahead,and are likely to wind up only fooling yourself along the way.
To that end,Im calling you both out personally.Quit crying..a question was asked and a response given.If you dont like my response Im capable of dealing with that,but don think youre going to censor what I have to say or verbally beat me into submission.Sounds more like you just cant handle it when someone voices what you dont want to hear.
Quit thinking on a sexual basis? Umm,well lets examine the subject here..it all ties in.
Your preference,is just that..yours.It doesnt bother me slightly what you are,its yours to deal with,and I have no need for the details of your life..it has nothing to do with the question you posed that I provided a response to.A question was posed,a response given,and a mini-drama launched because you cant tolerate an opposing view,or one that doesnt provide you the closure you need.
So lets summarize all this.You asked a question.In my response I put some common sentiment on the table followed by biblical facts and other reasoning surrounding that.I even discussed that forgiveness can be reached through repentance,so its not like I was condemning anyone.However,drew honed in on the piece he could make an argument out of and proceeded to bash it in multiple posts.And now you follow right along and think youre "calling me out".Please.I really dont think you understand the concept in the slightest.
Again..were all here in a public forum asking questions,discussing ideas.If you dont like my thinking,thats cool..I promise its mutual thus far.The bigger picture here is being able to disagree with someone without having a meltdown.Having said that,you can rant here all by your little lonesome.Ill be seeing you on the next topic,whatever that may be.If you choose to take this route again,then by all means..send me a private message and we can hash it out there.Ill be more than happy to tell you how I feel and it spares everyone else the drama.
DarkHorseRising
Member
Alexlove, one thing you discover about Christianity is that there is no sin more wretched and unforgivable than the sin that a person doesn't have to worry about falling into.
People who are obsessed with the horrible sin of homosexuality are not tempted by it. People who promote a prosperity gospel are never poor. People who claim God is against interracial marriage conveniently don't have friends of other races.
It's a sad dichotomy. A religion that teaches "love thy neighbor", full of people all too eager to hate them.
People who are obsessed with the horrible sin of homosexuality are not tempted by it. People who promote a prosperity gospel are never poor. People who claim God is against interracial marriage conveniently don't have friends of other races.
It's a sad dichotomy. A religion that teaches "love thy neighbor", full of people all too eager to hate them.
Drew
Member
I will check these references out. In the meantime, readers need to remember that just because something is posted on the internet, that does not make it true.
And I will bet that these references do not credibly support the position that being gay is a "choice".<!-- m -->
This may be well be true, but it does not support the argument that being gay is a choice.
It could easily be the case that homosexual inclination is indeed genetically determined (or at least partly genetically determined), but that it is difficult to find the supporting evidence.
My overall belief is this: The scientific jury is still "out" in respect to the matter of the degree to which genetics and / or environment play determining roles re sexual orientation.
Lewis
Member
Here is a article that I found this morning.
Are people born gay?
In: Gay Lesbian and Bisexual
Answer:
Studies have been conducted which have proved that there are certain hormonal imbalances that sway human desires and behaviors to one side. The study showed that all humans have male and female hormones in the beginning developmental stages. As we develop, one particular type of hormone becomes more dominant and takes over. In some cases, however, it has been proven that the hormones get 'mixed up' and there are males that end up with more female hormones than average and females with more male hormones than average. This is why you will hear some people say that they have always felt that they were born in the wrong body.
There is another study that has been conducted by the Oregon State University where they have studied and experimented on the brains of sheep that have been found to have homosexual tendencies. According to the study, 10% of sheep have homosexual tendencies. The link to this study is provided below.
It is a matter of chance whether or not you are born gay. All fetus' start with the male and female hormones inbuilt. During the growth of the fetus the hormones are increased to build on the gender it has become. Sometimes this process is flawed and the opposite hormone takes precedence for the gender being created. Thus the baby is born being gay. In a similar way to this but in different amounts of the hormones bisexuals are born. This is the most likely explanation to this mystery and is being scientifically investigated. See link regarding human sexual ambiguity at birth provided below.
Abnormalities in sexual development happen in the womb happen every day. There are numerous studies that address human ambiguity at birth, masculinized female infants, abnormal sexual development, sexual dimorphism, hermaphroditism, and infants that cannot be identified at birth as male or female. Homosexuality may be the least pronounced of those irregularities and no one should be demonized for the way they were born. Any person who ignores all the scientific facts and studies about human sexual irregularities and variations at birth is using something else besides their brain to formulate their world views. An online search will reveal thousands of reliable scientific pages available for personal enlightenment on this topic.
Answer:
Yes, Homosexuality is not a choice but it is through DNA engineering for example did you choose to have the natural hair colour you have? No you didn't, The same applies to being Homosexual, its a natural thing to the person it effects as no one I think would choose to be homosexuals them selves as no one chooses to get the abuse for being who they naturally are
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Are_people_born_gay
Are people born gay?
In: Gay Lesbian and Bisexual
Answer:
Studies have been conducted which have proved that there are certain hormonal imbalances that sway human desires and behaviors to one side. The study showed that all humans have male and female hormones in the beginning developmental stages. As we develop, one particular type of hormone becomes more dominant and takes over. In some cases, however, it has been proven that the hormones get 'mixed up' and there are males that end up with more female hormones than average and females with more male hormones than average. This is why you will hear some people say that they have always felt that they were born in the wrong body.
There is another study that has been conducted by the Oregon State University where they have studied and experimented on the brains of sheep that have been found to have homosexual tendencies. According to the study, 10% of sheep have homosexual tendencies. The link to this study is provided below.
It is a matter of chance whether or not you are born gay. All fetus' start with the male and female hormones inbuilt. During the growth of the fetus the hormones are increased to build on the gender it has become. Sometimes this process is flawed and the opposite hormone takes precedence for the gender being created. Thus the baby is born being gay. In a similar way to this but in different amounts of the hormones bisexuals are born. This is the most likely explanation to this mystery and is being scientifically investigated. See link regarding human sexual ambiguity at birth provided below.
Abnormalities in sexual development happen in the womb happen every day. There are numerous studies that address human ambiguity at birth, masculinized female infants, abnormal sexual development, sexual dimorphism, hermaphroditism, and infants that cannot be identified at birth as male or female. Homosexuality may be the least pronounced of those irregularities and no one should be demonized for the way they were born. Any person who ignores all the scientific facts and studies about human sexual irregularities and variations at birth is using something else besides their brain to formulate their world views. An online search will reveal thousands of reliable scientific pages available for personal enlightenment on this topic.
Answer:
Yes, Homosexuality is not a choice but it is through DNA engineering for example did you choose to have the natural hair colour you have? No you didn't, The same applies to being Homosexual, its a natural thing to the person it effects as no one I think would choose to be homosexuals them selves as no one chooses to get the abuse for being who they naturally are
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Are_people_born_gay
G
GojuBrian
Guest
I can agree that some people are born with a predisposition to certain types of behavior, but that's not an excuse.
I've seen some that turned out just like their father even though their father did not raise them nor was he around them at all growing up. Is that genetics? I believe so.
I do not believe in a 'gay gene'. Even though out tax dollars have worked frantically to find this gay gene, they just can't because it doesn't exist. It's just another excuse to search for a way out of a guilty conscious, same with the 'don't call it queer,homosexual,etc' mentality.
A homosexual is a homosexual, they stole the word gay, that's offensive to me. I can't watch the Flintstones without their meaning of gay coming to mind,thanks.
Do we call drug dealers 'unlicensed pharmacists'? Same difference.
I alos believe our upbringing has a strong influence on our behavior. Especially between the ages of birth to 10yrs old. Kids don't listen ,they watch and emulate.
I've seen some that turned out just like their father even though their father did not raise them nor was he around them at all growing up. Is that genetics? I believe so.
I do not believe in a 'gay gene'. Even though out tax dollars have worked frantically to find this gay gene, they just can't because it doesn't exist. It's just another excuse to search for a way out of a guilty conscious, same with the 'don't call it queer,homosexual,etc' mentality.
A homosexual is a homosexual, they stole the word gay, that's offensive to me. I can't watch the Flintstones without their meaning of gay coming to mind,thanks.
Do we call drug dealers 'unlicensed pharmacists'? Same difference.
I alos believe our upbringing has a strong influence on our behavior. Especially between the ages of birth to 10yrs old. Kids don't listen ,they watch and emulate.
Mike S
Member
I don't think anyone here is using it as an excuse, or to say homosexuality isn't a sin. Christian rejection of homosexuality has nothing whatever to do with whether it's caused by gene or not. Lifestyle choice or natural causes, it doesn't matter.
Kidron
Member
Hate does not take any effort., thats why its so natural.
Real love on the other hand, is proven by sacrifice, and sacrifice of one self for the sake of all others is difficult.
Its easy to hate, its difficult to sacrifice.
For me, an astounding part of the sacrifice of Christ,... was that after he endured such disrespect and such maltreatment, he looked down from his cross into the eyes of his most ardent haters and said..."Father forgive".
And Father did.
Only God can love like that.
K
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Drew
Member
This is circular reasoning.
How do you know this? Are you speculating? Or do you have some actual evidence, or some other substantive argument, to support this assertion?
By the way, I believe the OP was about the matter of whether people are "born gay", not the different question as to whether its morally acceptable to engage in homosexual behaviour.
G
GojuBrian
Guest
1. You argument is invalid and flawed,
2. I don't care what you believe the OP is about.
3. I don't value your opinion in the slightest.
G
GojuBrian
Guest
Are adulterers born that way? Alchoholics? Pedophiles? Drug users?
Next time I get pulled over for speeding....
"sorry officer, I was born that way"
No, they're not making excuses at all...are they.. :eeeekkk
Next time I get pulled over for speeding....
"sorry officer, I was born that way"
No, they're not making excuses at all...are they.. :eeeekkk
DarkHorseRising
Member
You are confusing predisposition with action. I'll make a good faith assumption that this is unintentional.
Yes, people are "born that way" with a stronger than average propensity towards certain behaviors. It is not an excuse, it's the reality that people have to deal with and it is not in their control.
Actions, on the other hand, are within our control. Acting on a temptation, even if we have a strong disposition towards it, is wrong.
In your example, you may have a struggle with impatience. This isn't a fault. However, giving in to it by speeding most certainly is a fault. You are responsible for your actions, not your temptations.