Is Christian Rock Satanic ?

[MrVersatile48]

HAVE YOU SEEN MY KARAOKE ACT?

Anyone read 'Playing With Fire' by classically trained Manchester Christian pro musician Alex Robertson? Published by Barrat in 1996

He shows, quite thoroughly, how each & every style of music, inc opera, can be, & has been, used by both God & Satan - the lyrics of several operas exalt fornication & adultery

& 'The Magic Flute' was a promo for occult Freemasonry: opera means works & we must choose, in all things, between the works of the Spirit & the works of the flesh

Someone asked @ attitude: the Bible says, 'the heart of man is deceitful above all things & desparately wicked'

Jesus told even Nicodemus, the official religious teacher of Israel, 'unless a man is born again, he cannot even see the kingdom of God'

Paul said something @ how unregenerate man does all things out of selfish & wrong motives, & how, as Christians, we need to glorify Christ & be a blessing to our neighbour, especially those of the household of faith

The same knife can be both surgeon's scalpel & murderer's dagger

'Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks'

God bless!

Ian

Man will take anything that is good and mess it up.

I musta sung in 3,500+ karaokes, 1989-2003: as both Rhyl & Southport are tourist seaside resorts, there are often 2/3 per night in season

Anyway, I often said, 'Can ya guess why a DJ gave me da stage name, Mr Versatile?

I can mess anything up!' :

I'm sure I need to add that to my profile, (& delete outa date stuff!), as I've often said, in my almost 5 years in various online forums, that I'm most definitely a lower case 'mr versatile' - I can do a few voices etc, but there are many things I can't do (especially on PCs - I can't even change my profile to say Liverpool, as I moved from Southport in November!) :roll:

In my book, there's only one capital MR VERSATILE - the Almighty Creator, who, as my signature says, 'does ALL things WELL' :multi:

God bless!

Ian

 

[MrVersatile48]

Hi again, Dude!

I recall a very creative question you asked 2/3 weeks ago too :-D

If I may step in to say some things, and speak about a band who has gotten no end of controvesy all because of what they sing about, what do they sing about? God, but God in a VERY deep way, thats not seen by many in today's Christian music Market. Few have heard of this band that does God's work, they're an obscure band, they're known as Saviour Machine, a Christian Goth/Symphonic Metal/REALLY awsome band for God in fact their very first CD was banned and pulled from Christian music shelves in the early 90's all because of one song, with one line in it that was STRAIGHT from the Bible, I shall post this song: "Legion moves over the land
Softly he whispers, his forces command
Naked she lies on the crucifix crying
the tears of the innocent die
The dragon slides between her thighs
The dragon breathes the fire
As blood drips from her eyes
Until delivered of the child

And all the leaders of the nations follow single file
And all the brothers of the legion drift upon the Nile
To face the beast in all its ecstasy
And dreams of out betrayal
As love will die within the force
That drains is from the grail
She drinks the blood of prophets
And she drinks the blood of saints
Between her legs they crawl in torment
For the souls they lay to waste
Upon the altar, the sacrifice begins
The dragon takes another, and feeds upon his sins
To live and breathe again
Under the night, Under the Liar
Into the night, Into the fire

Is this the coming of the day?
As the alliance of the dragon takes its prey

Is this the call of revolution?
Is this the fall of revolution of the soul?

Is this the cry from all corruption?
Or is corruption just a fortress we bestow?

And if you're looking for the Answer
And if you're looking for the Light that leads the way

Take my hand and I will lead you
Where the torture and the pain will drift away

Stay with Me..." The line in question was: "The dragon slides between her thighs" this is from Revelation, speaking about the woman and the dragon. Anyway tell me what you think?

Rev 12 if I recall right

Is the Light of the World in John 8 - http://www.BibleGateway.org has concordance

Last line is very Rev 21 - 'no more tears,,hunger..pain..death..mourning.. God will wipe away every tear'

So that's at least 3 lines, yes? 8-)

Can't wait to see that 2nd song..

Ian :-D

 

[MrVersatile48]

They wrote in song for their first albumn called Killer, its about Christians who are so closed off to anything that is "different" or "odd" or whatever you want to say, here are the lyrics:

"Killer, killer
Killer lives in silent dreams
Of genocide philosophy rebirth
Killer, killer
Killer lies in frightened eyes
Obsessed with words that terrorize the earth

Killer hides inside of the dead
Killer walks in fear of his own
Killer judges all that is said
Killer doesn't see what is shown

Killer is dying within
Killer is taking the soul from the man
Killer is stalking again
Killer is breaking the heart of his plan

Pray for the killer
Pray for his son
Pray for the killer
Pray for his day to be done

Killer's face is ominous
Killer's heart is black
Killer's mind is on the loose
Killer will attack
Killer can't communicate
Killer can't investigate
Killer will interrogate
Killer will annihilate

Killers run like insects to destroy the battle cry
Killers use their influence to animate the sky

Killer's high anxiety becomes obsessed with therapy
Killer's insecurity paints the wall with purity

Killers aren't diverted from their mission to destroy
Assigned to the demoralized
The course of dreamers hypnotized

Killer's promiscuity infects his false security
When forced to use his intellect
To trace the path of righteousness

Killers build their ladders to the sky
To stand in judgment over high
Across the galaxy of fear
That brings the criminal to tears

Stare into the killer's eyes
Stare into the killer's eyes

Stare into his eyes
Stare beyond his lies

Is it time for the end
For the wounds to be mend
And the servant to bleed from within

Is there truth in his words
Proof of return
Has the killer surrendered to sin

Has the killer betrayed
Has the killer enslaved
Has he stolen the eyes from his son

In the wake of the trial
In the hands of denial
Lies the killer and all that is one

Pray for the killer
Pray for this son
Pray for the killer
Pray for his day to be done"

the songs is a rather deep one, and its rather sorrowful imo, tell me what you all think

I'm sure my 1st post in this thread - p1 - linked my lyric, Before Our Eyes

Here's 'Before Our Eyes'

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=18604

Its Instrumental Voice-over, @ the end, quotes Rev 6:8, Rev 9:13-18, Rev 16 & maybe Joel 3, Zechariah 14 & Habakkuk 2 & Ezekiel 38-39

Habakkuk 1:2-4 complaint & God's Habakkuk 2:2-3 reply was its initial inspiration & very much echoes here

The above lyric also reminds me of Isaiah 14 & Ezekiel 28 & Rev 13 & Rev 17-19

Rev 20 in there too

Must go!

Ian

 

[WiLdAtHeArT]

Questions:

1. If "Christian rock" is Satanic, what, then should we listen to? Only hymns (many of which were made using the melodies of tavern drinking songs with new lyrics)? Only instrumental or classical?

2. Who would be the music police and determine which songs or groups are 'Chrsitian'? Is U2 a Christian group? Not Christian enough? How about Creed? If we listen to these un-Christian (or not-enough-Christian) groups, are we worshipping Satan?

3. If a song talks about politics, the Sadie Hawkins dance at high school, skateboarding, or someone's favorite ice cream flavor, is it okay to listen to it?

Comment: I listen to "Christian" music just about every day at work ( http://www.m88.org awesome radio station in NM - or http://www.zjam.com ). It lifts me up and directs me to so many different aspects about God during the day. Flyleaf comes on with their song (I can feel you all around me...) and it is worship to me. Or Stellar Kart's "Me and Jesus" (Some one loves you, even if you don't think so, don't you know, you've got me and Jesus, by your side, through fight, you will never be alone, on your own, you've got me and Jesus...) and I feel loved. Someone tell me how this is Satanic.

 

[XianGothDude]

Most Christians today treat other Christians as if they were still baby Christians, easily swayed and corrupted by everything, I admit that alot of Christians are still like that, but even they have common sense and a sense of right and wrong, one of the greatest masks of evil is that of virture, its so easy to get caught up the religious do's and don'ts of today. It's not so much of what Satan does want us to hear, its what he DOESN'T want us to hear, why else are Christians fighting a Christian civil war with their own brothers in sisters in the name of being Holier to God? In fact, Ryan Clark (lead singer of the Christian Thrash Metal band, Demon Hunter wrote a song about Christians judging Christian Metal so hastily. The song is called The Latest and the Last (The Wheels of Judgement Turn Slowly): "Words of high cost (you spit a curse at my name)
When thoughts of hate cross (I can't devour your blame)
This is your choice (this is your hammer to crush)
I have no voice (you're not the hand that I trust)

Throw it down on me.
Throw it down on me.

[CHORUS:]
Before you break your silence, before we tear this open...
We'll count the dead and hopeless for every word unspoken.

Thoughts, like blood, run (forever staining our hands)
Mouth like cold gun (before the barrel we stand)
The latest and the last (you put a price on my head)
The latest and the last (the worst is already said)

[CHORUS]

Spilling through your teeth
You're sick of what you've seen
You point your guilt at every step we took in loyalty

[CHORUS]

Throw it down on me.
Throw it down."

Ryan Clark even wrote his thoughts about the song, the meaning speficially:
"Passing judgment on one another as Christians can be very devastating and it
happens so often, we¹ve grown accustomed to it. Only God knows what lies in
the hearts of each and every one of us. The judgmental ideals of Christians
against each other result in a very segregated mindset.

For instance, many Christians have passed judgment on heavy metal as a
whole, saying that it¹s not a healthy platform for reaching people in the
name of Christ, and rather a blasphemous and worldly alternative to other
genres of Christian music. The amazing things that I¹ve seen happen for the
kingdom of God within the heavy metal scene prove that thought to be a very
ignorant perception.

Basically the song suggests, you can have the latest judgment, but God will
have the last." Your thoughts?

 

[Lewis]

Has everybody went to the link in the first post on this subject ? I for one don't think that it is. But make sure you go to that link and look into this subject.
As a matter of fact, I will repost the link below.

Is Christian Rock Satanic ?
http://www.mindspring.com/~brucec/craindex.htm

 

[MrVersatile48]

Just time to say very comprehensive: read it later

Ian

 

[Lewis]

Just time to say very comprehensive: read it later

Ian

Let me know what you thought about it.

 

[radbirts]

Umm, your title is pretty contradicting.

David Crowder*Band is considered christian rock. So, to answer your question (though it's already been answered), no.

The end.

 

[Lewis]

Umm, your title is pretty contradicting.

David Crowder*Band is considered christian rock. So, to answer your question (though it's already been answered), no.

The end.

What are you taking about and to who ?

 

[Proximity]

Honestly some of the views here are appaling.

We are meant to live life in the culture as Jesus did, not sit around in our church bubble and figure out how good we have it and how much the world needs and should seek Jesus. We bring the church to the people.

Think about this: The underground metal scene is probably one of the least reached out to parts of our culture. How can we reach them? At THEIR level. Does that mean we have to do what they do? Do we have to sing what they sing? No, we should not allow ourselves to be corrupted by the immoral practices of the world. Should we love them regardless of their sins? Should we accept them for who they are? Should we rock out in the name of the lord? Absolutely.

Worship. A very hard to explain thing at times. How do you explain worship to someone who has never been to church? I've once heard it explained like this: You know when you go to a Slayer concert and your rock'n out and at that moment you're all about Slayer? It's the same thing, but you're all about God. Can headbanging be worship? Absolutely. The common view is that you must have your hands in the air singing your lungs out to worship. This is false, everyone worships in a different way, and headbanging for the lord is a perfectly acceptable way.

Consider this: You put together a stellar worship band and go to a local venue. You play a bunch of David Crowder and Third Day covers. Do you think the local metal head is going to identify with that? I highly doubt it. Contrast with this: You get a bunch of your hard rock'n Jesus loving buddies together and go to a local venue. You play a set of hard rocking songs that even the most hardened metal head could respect, and you sing lyrics that they can identify with. I strongly believe that you would get a much better reaction.

Plus, hard rock is NOT all about hopelessness, christian or not. There have been several accounts of teenagers siting the Metallica song, "one" for being the only reason they didn't commit suicide. Like earlier stated, a knife can be used as a wonderful tool that can save time or lives, but the knife of the same blade can be used to kill. It's all about the operator.

Now if Jesus is the operator of a metal band, will it be destructive? No. If Jesus is in charge of something i have faith that he will use it to further his kingdom, reaching out to those who are in the darkest corners or life.

It was once stated by Jesus in Matthew 9:12 "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick". So i pose this question: How are is the doctor getting to the sick? One of many answer could be through christian heavy metal bands. If you believe that bringing Jesus to people in terms that they can understand is satanic then you better re-examin what it is that you are placing your faith in.

In Christ,

Proximity

 

[AMVanNess]

Most of the naysayers of Christian Rock simply just don't enjoy the music and say asinine things like, "God only likes traditional hymns to be sung on Sunday." BLAH BLAH BLAH I find it interesting that "traditional hymns" were once {gasp} modern music. THE HORROR! Maybe we should go back and learn how to play the Lyre like David or only sing in Psalms in Hebrew. Or is that far enough back to please God?

I'm 33 and I enjoy many types of music. I can appreciate Beethoven as well as Disciple. I believe that God bestows talent and gifts in many different forms. God can use EVERYTHING for good...even that which is meant for evil.

As far as Christian groups/musicians go, history has proven time and time again (anyone heard of Sandy Patti or Michael Card?) that being a Christian...even as a mouthpiece behind a microphone does not make one infallible. When choosing music, it's important NEVER to put any artist on a pedestal. People WILL always fail and fail us. God NEVER fails us.

Further, God made each one of us UNIQUE individuals. We enjoy different tastes, different visual stimuli, different textures, different scents, and ph yes, different sounds.

There is NOTHING Christ-like about a congregation of 120 mumbling through Ode to Joy as if they've just had dental surgery and the drugs are still wearing off. Far too many churches, in my observation, are dying IN their silly little traditions. I know the church I grew up in did. It closed a few years ago because the congregation was dying out. They hadn't reached young families or teens in years. How does a church reach the lost without being relevant to their lives? Music is relevant to lots of people.

Additionally, I believe that the Apostle Paul said something about becoming all things to all people. He was talking about being IN the world not OF the world to REACH the world. We can't sit in our glass cathedrals mumbling Beethoven in lethargy if we expect to fulfill the Great Commission. The Great Commission says ALL the world...and for the modern-day church...at least part of the world exists right in their community. If we are genuine, YES, Christian Rock, Heavy Metal, and even Rap (though not in my car) can be used to reach the lost.

 

[Preacher Boy]

Most of the naysayers of Christian Rock simply just don't enjoy the music and say asinine things like, "God only likes traditional hymns to be sung on Sunday." BLAH BLAH BLAH I find it interesting that "traditional hymns" were once {gasp} modern music. THE HORROR! Maybe we should go back and learn how to play the Lyre like David or only sing in Psalms in Hebrew. Or is that far enough back to please God?

I'm 33 and I enjoy many types of music. I can appreciate Beethoven as well as Disciple. I believe that God bestows talent and gifts in many different forms. God can use EVERYTHING for good...even that which is meant for evil.

As far as Christian groups/musicians go, history has proven time and time again (anyone heard of Sandy Patti or Michael Card?) that being a Christian...even as a mouthpiece behind a microphone does not make one infallible. When choosing music, it's important NEVER to put any artist on a pedestal. People WILL always fail and fail us. God NEVER fails us.

Further, God made each one of us UNIQUE individuals. We enjoy different tastes, different visual stimuli, different textures, different scents, and ph yes, different sounds.

There is NOTHING Christ-like about a congregation of 120 mumbling through Ode to Joy as if they've just had dental surgery and the drugs are still wearing off. Far too many churches, in my observation, are dying IN their silly little traditions. I know the church I grew up in did. It closed a few years ago because the congregation was dying out. They hadn't reached young families or teens in years. How does a church reach the lost without being relevant to their lives? Music is relevant to lots of people.

Additionally, I believe that the Apostle Paul said something about becoming all things to all people. He was talking about being IN the world not OF the world to REACH the world. We can't sit in our glass cathedrals mumbling Beethoven in lethargy if we expect to fulfill the Great Commission. The Great Commission says ALL the world...and for the modern-day church...at least part of the world exists right in their community. If we are genuine, YES, Christian Rock, Heavy Metal, and even Rap (though not in my car) can be used to reach the lost.

I agree.


At our youth group at church during wednesday evening service we all meet in the fellowship hall and meditate on some christian lyrics from rock and blues songs from contemporary titles.

After we get into the songs we the light up some christian marijuana then after we catch a little unholy ghost within our soul we proceed to christian fornicate and christian whoremonger around with all the teens.

What a time we have in fellowship around christian gossiping about christian romance novels we have read during the week and some even comment on the christian porn flicks they found on the net.

It really keeps the teens coming back to church each week and may even have two services for teens during the week, we are still seeking god on that.

I dont see why these fundamentalchurches cant see how it draws in on and attracts the teens to build big youth groups.

 

[Proximity]

I agree.


At our youth group at church during wednesday evening service we all meet in the fellowship hall and meditate on some christian lyrics from rock and blues songs from contemporary titles.

After we get into the songs we the light up some christian marijuana then after we catch a little unholy ghost within our soul we proceed to christian fornicate and christian whoremonger around with all the teens.

What a time we have in fellowship around christian gossiping about christian romance novels we have read during the week and some even comment on the christian porn flicks they found on the net.

It really keeps the teens coming back to church each week and may even have two services for teens during the week, we are still seeking god on that.

I dont see why these fundamentalchurches cant see how it draws in on and attracts the teens to build big youth groups.

I think you missed the whole point...

 

[AMVanNess]

I agree.


At our youth group at church during wednesday evening service we all meet in the fellowship hall and meditate on some christian lyrics from rock and blues songs from contemporary titles.

After we get into the songs we the light up some christian marijuana then after we catch a little unholy ghost within our soul we proceed to christian fornicate and christian whoremonger around with all the teens.

What a time we have in fellowship around christian gossiping about christian romance novels we have read during the week and some even comment on the christian porn flicks they found on the net.

It really keeps the teens coming back to church each week and may even have two services for teens during the week, we are still seeking god on that.

I dont see why these fundamentalchurches cant see how it draws in on and attracts the teens to build big youth groups.

CASE CLOSED: People who are completely IGNORANT on the subject up for debate say completely ASININE things. As you have just demonstrated for us with your absurd preconceived illogical abstration.

 

[AMVanNess]

I agree.


At our youth group at church during wednesday evening service we all meet in the fellowship hall and meditate on some christian lyrics from rock and blues songs from contemporary titles.

After we get into the songs we the light up some christian marijuana then after we catch a little unholy ghost within our soul we proceed to christian fornicate and christian whoremonger around with all the teens.

What a time we have in fellowship around christian gossiping about christian romance novels we have read during the week and some even comment on the christian porn flicks they found on the net.

It really keeps the teens coming back to church each week and may even have two services for teens during the week, we are still seeking god on that.

I dont see why these fundamentalchurches cant see how it draws in on and attracts the teens to build big youth groups.

CASE CLOSED: People who are completely IGNORANT on the subject up for debate say completely ASININE things. As you have just demonstrated for us with your absurd preconceived illogical abstraction.

 

[knowtodogood]

Theres and old expression if it looks like the world acts like the world talks like the world in this case sounds like the world its of the world.
1 John 2:15 Love not the world neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world the love of the Father is not in him.

we really need to look harder at what we decide to defend.
its to bad we feel its more important to defend rock music in the house of God than to stand up every day for Christ.
all of us have gods we put before God and unfortunately the devil has fooled you into believing that this argument is worth having.[/u]

 

[Proximity]

Theres and old expression if it looks like the world acts like the world talks like the world in this case sounds like the world its of the world.
1 John 2:15 Love not the world neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world the love of the Father is not in him.

we really need to look harder at what we decide to defend.
its to bad we feel its more important to defend rock music in the house of God than to stand up every day for Christ.
all of us have gods we put before God and unfortunately the devil has fooled you into believing that this argument is worth having.[/u]

You miss the point as well. We are supposed to LIVE IN THE CULTURE (WORLD) because Jesus did. We aren't going to reach people by singing at them with our 'oh so holy chiors' and by singing our hymns at them!

Every one of the accepted worship songs you hear in church were at one point modern music. The church was once the driving force behind the arts, we were the cutting edge of all things music, painted and sculpted. Since the reformation that has changed and we have created a sense of 'us and them'. Well guess what, we were once them too, and they can be like us.

You wont reach a teenage metal head in almost any other way than by powerful music that they can relate to. I have seen this.

And, what right do you have to tell us what is correct in the eyes of God?

We are not the ones fooled but rather those who are against this movement towards the culture. The devil doesn't want us to reach people. It is common in these times for people to identify themselves by the music they listen to and if we don't accept rock music we don't accept rockers. Now obviously not all rock music is good, and contrary to what you so ignorantly posted, WE AREN'T DEFENDING ROCK MUSIC. We are defending an outlet of that genre that is pleasing to God and one that is as much worship as any hymn sung in churches.

knowtodogood, you offend me by assuming that because we listen and stand up for christian rock music that we don't stand up for Jesus. You are wrong and blinded.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

That doesn't include you.

 

[Preacher Boy]

You wont reach a teenage metal head in almost any other way than by powerful music that they can relate to. I have seen this.


That doesn't include you.

Not sure on how you witness, or what you witness of...I am not to appeal to anyone present state, whether rockhead, artist, or any other social status. I am to preach to them repentance and faith towards Christ, and receiving Him would change their life inside and out.

So appealing to a heavy metal listener with christian heavy metal would be far from what Christ would have me to do.

(Genesis 19:26) But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.

1 Thessalonians 5:21-22
(21) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
(22) Abstain from all appearance of evil.


Why would someone that sees their need for Christ and a new life in Christ want to have their past desires and lusts of the flesh in their new life but with "christian" in front of it.

I don't want to judge people i don't know except by what the bible says, so when i see the covers of "christian" artists in a music store and cant tell a difference from the secular artists, or when i listen to it and can't tell a difference in the style then how does it endorse a changed life?

So which is the "christian" and which is the Satan worshippers?

People that see that they are wicked and ungodly and need a saviour come to Christ and get a new man desiring new spiritual things.

Not saying they are not saved, but people that still desire the fleshly things are not spiritually minded.

(Luke 17:32) Remember Lot's wife.

What should we remember?

She was made to leave the perverted cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by the leader of the home, but still desired the lusts of the flesh!

How do we know that?

She looked back even though she was commanded not to because her heart and desire was still in Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

[Proximity]

Preacher Boy again you are missing the point. How is heavy metal a thing of flesh? How is it lust? How is it any more right or wrong then gospel music? You talk about the underground scene but i doubt you know at all what it's about. And who are you to tell me that because i listen to christian metal that i'm not as spiritual as someone who doesn't?? I take offense to that.

If you honestly believe that you are going to change someones life by preaching at them and telling them what they need, then i challenge you to go to a local show venue and do just that. You will get no results.

Why did Jesus teach in parabels? Because the people of the time could understand it. He met them at their level. We should do the same.

And as far as christian bands not being 'different enough' that is a complete load and you are again missing the point.

These bands are trying to REACH PEOPLE that wouldn't normally deal with anything that has anything to do with God. I've shown a few of my friends 'christian' music and they were like, "ok, yeah whatever dude..." and then i played some demon hunter and we rocked out to that and played the song bullets by creed. When they found out that they were christian they connected immediately. They were like, "Woah, christian music can be cool too? Right on." since then they've had a much more open mind about christians.

Plus you fail to see that with most show goers the connection isn't all about the music, but to the people behind the music. They like to see what the people in the band are like, and when they hear a band that rocks, has meaningful lyrics and then find out that the band members are God loving people who like to rock out for their lord, it changes peoples hearts. People really connect with stuff like that.

People, especially the showgoers / metalheads, are looking for something that they can connect and identify with and REPLICATE. They look for people to look up to. When they find for example a lead guitarist who rocks out amoungst the best heavy guitarists out there, who is a great loving guy and loves Jesus but isn't judgemental, people really get their opinions changed about christians.

This shouldn't be news to you, but modern day christianity has a bad stereotype that drives people away, and i'm sorry to say but your closemindedness fits that stereotype perfectly.