Is the vaccine effective?

[Corn Pop]

Oh well i probably wont be visiting my family, friends, and the dock and time soon. Im not even allowed to go yet, but if i was i would still have to hotel quarentine and thats just a waste of my holiday time, and there is a plan to move to a system of home isolation for fully vaccinated arrivals later in 2022. So i would still need to isolate even if i was fully vaccinated and thats just a waste of my holiday time. I mean travel all the way there on a 2 week holiday even next year and probably still have to isolate most of the time even if i was fully vaccinated.

 

[Free]

The unvaccinated has less than 1% chance of getting COVID.


Here are the numbers from the study.


Comirnaty (BNT162b2, Pfizer-BioNTech) COVID-19 Vaccine

The Pfizer-BioNTech, now called Comirnaty, COVID-19 vaccine was first given Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) on December 11, 2020, and as of May 10, 2021, has been approved for patients 12 years and older and has been administered to over 205 million Americans.3,4 On August 23, 2021, Comirnaty became the first FDA-approved COVID-19 vaccine for patients 16 years and older.4 This recommendation came from results of a phase 2/3 ongoing multinational, placebo-controlled, observer-blinded, trial of Comirnaty. Primary end points were efficacy of the vaccine against laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 and safety. A total of 43,548 participants (≥ 16 years) from 152 sites worldwide were randomized 1:1 to receive 2 doses, 21 days apart, of either placebo or Comirnaty (30 μg/dose).5 The primary efficacy end point was achieved in 8 patients in the Comirnaty group (0.04%) and 162 patients in the placebo group (0.88%). This corresponds with the vaccine being 95% effective in preventing COVID-19 (95% CI, 90.3%-97.6%).5

COVID-19 Vaccines: FDA Approved, EUA, and in the Pipeline

Clinical testing of COVID-19 vaccine efficacy has led to the first FDA-approved COVID-19 vaccine, Comirnaty.

www.pharmacytimes.com

No, those numbers do not say what you think they say. This goes right back to my comments about why the general public should not have access to all the research—because they don’t understand how research is generally done and how to interpret the findings.

All those numbers tell you is exactly what the article states: “The primary efficacy end point was achieved in 8 patients in the Comirnaty group (0.04%) and 162 patients in the placebo group (0.88%). This corresponds with the vaccine being 95% effective in preventing COVID-19 (95% CI, 90.3%-97.6%).”

What it absolutely does not tell you is that “The unvaccinated has less than 1% chance of getting COVID.” There are numerous factors involved in the chance of getting COVID, such as geographical location, age, population density, dose of the virus, and comorbidities.

 

[JLB]

Arguing to the future isn't helpful for your case. Firstly, side effects of vaccines are mostly known within the first few months. So, at this point, with people having had them for a year or so, long term side effects with the COVID vaccines are unlikely. Secondly, I could just as easily argue to the unknown long term effects of getting COVID. We actually do know that some people have long COVID and continued effects from it, even more than a year. But also consider shingles, which is caused by the sudden appearing of the same virus that causes smallpox, many years or even decades after having had smallpox. That is something the vaccine prevents, since it prevents smallpox in the first place. Or, consider post-polio syndrome. Again, something that the polio vaccine prevents.

We should be basing our decisions off of what we know now. What we know is that the COVID vaccines reduce the severity and spread of COVID, they're much safer than getting COVID, and that COVID is much more than just deaths and hospitalizations--people continue to have ongoing issues from it, affecting their quality of life, even their ability to work.

Since many countries are discovering that the COVID vaccine is harmful and fatal to humans they have suspended the use of them to their citizens.




JLB

 

[JLB]

All those numbers tell you is exactly what the article states: “The primary efficacy end point was achieved in 8 patients in the Comirnaty group (0.04%) and 162 patients in the placebo group (0.88%). This corresponds with the vaccine being 95% effective in preventing COVID-19 (95% CI, 90.3%-97.6%).”

What it absolutely does not tell you is that “The unvaccinated has less than 1% chance of getting COVID.” There are numerous factors involved in the chance of getting COVID, such as geographical location, age, population density, dose of the virus, and comorbidities.

Is 0.88% less than 1%?

 

[JLB]

no you said, that if the vaccine worked you wouldnt need a booster

Here is my post # 101

Camparing apples to onions doesn’t help the discussion.

Those vaccines have been around for a long time.


The Comirnaty Vaccine is the only one approved by the FDA and that has only been a few months.


We still don’t know all there is to know about mid term and long term fatal side effects.


Many countries have stopped issuing the vaccine for certain age groups because if the severe and fatal side effects.


There are so many other medicines that can work and have worked to treat the COVID 19, Wuhan Virus, effectively.






JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I have seen articles where people have said that God would keep me from dying from Covid-19, so I don't need a shot. That can be searched in Google. I am atvwork now and my time is somewhat limited, so if you want to see for yourself just search on Google.

I have transported dying people who have said that they trust Jesus to save them and they died anyway from Covid-19. I cannot give you their information.

So you've got nothing.
I showed you already that I searched google and came up with nothing.
If you want people to appreciate what you write, there are times you need to back things up, either with Scripture or with news articles, or books.
But to say "I heard", well, we can all say that.
But it proves nothing.
It falls under casual talk but I'm told that doesn't exist anymore.
I've even been reprimanded for it.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

No, those numbers do not say what you think they say. This goes right back to my comments about why the general public should not have access to all the research—because they don’t understand how research is generally done and how to interpret the findings.

All those numbers tell you is exactly what the article states: “The primary efficacy end point was achieved in 8 patients in the Comirnaty group (0.04%) and 162 patients in the placebo group (0.88%). This corresponds with the vaccine being 95% effective in preventing COVID-19 (95% CI, 90.3%-97.6%).”

What it absolutely does not tell you is that “The unvaccinated has less than 1% chance of getting COVID.” There are numerous factors involved in the chance of getting COVID, such as geographical location, age, population density, dose of the virus, and comorbidities.

There was a time when the general public couldn't have access to the Bible because we were told we couldn't understand it.
What you are saying is no different.
You'd be surprised just how much the general public can understand things but the covid folks don't want you to know.
They don't want to be exposed.

 

[Free]

There was a time when the general public couldn't have access to the Bible because we were told we couldn't understand it.
What you are saying is no different.
You'd be surprised just how much the general public can understand things but the covid folks don't want you to know.
They don't want to be exposed.

So, are you saying that everyone interprets and understands the Bible correctly? Do we not need preachers and teachers to expound on the Scriptures so that we can have a better understanding?

I've been involved in numerous online discussions with people and read many news articles, and time and time again people show that they don't know how to understand the results of research. It is generally very technical and the results are easy to misinterpret, just like the Bible, especially when people ignore those whom God has gifted in teaching his Word. There is nothing being hidden by "covid folks", nothing that "they don't want to be exposed."

 

[Free]

Since many countries are discovering that the COVID vaccine is harmful and fatal to humans they have suspended the use of them to their citizens.




JLB

If that is the case, then they will find that more people will die and suffer side effects from COVID than if they just vaccinated.

Is 0.88% less than 1%?

Of course it is, but my point is that the number doesn't mean what you think it means. As I stated, it does not tell you that “The unvaccinated has less than 1% chance of getting COVID.” All it means is that 162 participants out of the 18,325 that received the placebo got COIVD (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33301246/#&gid=article-figures&pid=captionless-figure-uid-3). It says nothing about the chances of the unvaccinated getting COVID.

Here are some other factors that determine the chances of getting COVID:

"But the risk of getting infected with COVID-19 depends heavily on the circumstances, Mittal says. The team’s model considers 10 transmission variables, including the breathing rates of the infected and noninfected persons, the number of virus-carrying droplets expelled, the surrounding environment, and the exposure time. Multiplied together, these variables yield a calculation of the possibility that an individual will be infected with COVID-19."

https://engineering.jhu.edu/magazine/2021/02/formulating-your-chances-of-catching-covid-19/

 

[Isilwen]

So you've got nothing.

I gave you one example here, https://christianforums.net/threads/is-the-vaccine-effective.87305/post-1647279. You dismissed. So that is on you.

But to say "I heard", well, we can all say that.

I literally heard them with my own ears. That wasn't a well this guy told me that. No, it was with my own ears. Again, you want to dismiss that it is on you.

You want to dismiss things because it doesn't fit your narrative, that is on you, not me. I am pretty much done with this thread anyway. I have said all that needed to be said and now the fence-sitters will have to make up their own minds. I start at a new job that I was just away on training for a month away from home for a month. The center opens tomorrow and this back and forth with people is something I am trying to put a stop to in my life.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

So, are you saying that everyone interprets and understands the Bible correctly? Do we not need preachers and teachers to expound on the Scriptures so that we can have a better understanding?

I've been involved in numerous online discussions with people and read many news articles, and time and time again people show that they don't know how to understand the results of research. It is generally very technical and the results are easy to misinterpret, just like the Bible, especially when people ignore those whom God has gifted in teaching his Word. There is nothing being hidden by "covid folks", nothing that "they don't want to be exposed."

So, are you saying that everyone interprets and understands the Bible correctly? Do we not need preachers and teachers to expound on the Scriptures so that we can have a better understanding?

I've been involved in numerous online discussions with people and read many news articles, and time and time again people show that they don't know how to understand the results of research. It is generally very technical and the results are easy to misinterpret, just like the Bible, especially when people ignore those whom God has gifted in teaching his Word. There is nothing being hidden by "covid folks", nothing that "they don't want to be exposed."

Oh, you're another one of those who interpret however you want.
Do you really think I said, "So, are you saying that everyone interprets and understands the Bible correctly? "
Is that how you interpret what I said?
I'd say you need some English classes.
You're out of your league on this forum.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I gave you one example here, https://christianforums.net/threads/is-the-vaccine-effective.87305/post-1647279. You dismissed. So that is on you.



I literally heard them with my own ears. That wasn't a well this guy told me that. No, it was with my own ears. Again, you want to dismiss that it is on you.

You want to dismiss things because it doesn't fit your narrative, that is on you, not me. I am pretty much done with this thread anyway. I have said all that needed to be said and now the fence-sitters will have to make up their own minds. I start at a new job that I was just away on training for a month away from home for a month. The center opens tomorrow and this back and forth with people is something I am trying to put a stop to in my life.

No, your only example was this nut case named Enyart.
How much of a true Christian he was is very questionable.
And your only other case is word of mouth.
Did this person actually die from covid?
You know this for sure?
How much of a Christian was he, or was he just talking?
You don't know nothing.
You don't even know his name.

 

[Isilwen]

How much of a true Christian he was is very questionable.

You want to judge the guy to make your case, that's on you. Not my problem.

And your only other case is word of mouth.

Word of mouth? It's first-hand knowledge. I heard them myself say it. It's not word of mouth say. I literally heard them state it. My partner didn't tell me another EMT didn't tell me. I heard it with my own ears.

Did this person actually die from covid?

Yes.

You know this for sure?

Yes, as I went and checked on them. Remember, I am an EMT and go to the same floors and hospitals. I have more access than a common person.

How much of a Christian was he, or was he just talking?

He was a God-fearing Christian and I had transported him many times before. We talked about God and Jesus at times. I have no reason to doubt him.

You don't know nothing.

So what you're saying is that I actually do know something as what you stated in the quote above is a double negative. All jokes aside, I actually do more than you believe that I do.

You don't even know his name.

I most certainly do, but there's this thing called HIPAA, you know the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, and I cannot give out personal identifying information that you're not privy to.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

You want to judge the guy to make your case, that's on you. Not my problem.


Word of mouth? It's first-hand knowledge. I heard them myself say it. It's not word of mouth say. I literally heard them state it. My partner didn't tell me another EMT didn't tell me. I heard it with my own ears.


Yes.



Yes, as I went and checked on them. Remember, I am an EMT and go to the same floors and hospitals. I have more access than a common person.



He was a God-fearing Christian and I had transported him many times before. We talked about God and Jesus at times. I have no reason to doubt him.


So what you're saying is that I actually do know something as what you stated in the quote above is a double negative. All jokes aside, I actually do more than you believe that I do.



I most certainly do, but there's this thing called HIPAA, you know the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, and I cannot give out personal identifying information that you're not privy to.

There's the key in your whole reply.
You said, " I had transported him many times before".
Sounds like his time was up, covid or otherwise.

 

[hawkman]

The unvaccinated has less than 1% chance of getting COVID.


Here are the numbers from the study.


Comirnaty (BNT162b2, Pfizer-BioNTech) COVID-19 Vaccine

The Pfizer-BioNTech, now called Comirnaty, COVID-19 vaccine was first given Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) on December 11, 2020, and as of May 10, 2021, has been approved for patients 12 years and older and has been administered to over 205 million Americans.3,4 On August 23, 2021, Comirnaty became the first FDA-approved COVID-19 vaccine for patients 16 years and older.4 This recommendation came from results of a phase 2/3 ongoing multinational, placebo-controlled, observer-blinded, trial of Comirnaty. Primary end points were efficacy of the vaccine against laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 and safety. A total of 43,548 participants (≥ 16 years) from 152 sites worldwide were randomized 1:1 to receive 2 doses, 21 days apart, of either placebo or Comirnaty (30 μg/dose).5 The primary efficacy end point was achieved in 8 patients in the Comirnaty group (0.04%) and 162 patients in the placebo group (0.88%). This corresponds with the vaccine being 95% effective in preventing COVID-19 (95% CI, 90.3%-97.6%).5

It says nothing about the chances of the unvaccinated getting COVID.

Let me take a stab at this .

The unvaccinated participants in the @ two month trial had a less than 1% chance of contracting COVID-19 during the trial .

Am I right Free ?

 

[Isilwen]

There's the key in your whole reply.
You said, " I had transported him many times before".
Sounds like his time was up, covid or otherwise.

See, you are setting it up so that you're right. Can you not admit that you're wrong?

 

[Free]

Let me take a stab at this .

The unvaccinated participants in the @ two month trial had a less than 1% chance of contracting COVID-19 during the trial .

Am I right Free ?

No. Less than 1% of unvaccinated people contracted COVID over a period of 2 months. That is not the chance of them contracting COVID. The chances of something happening and what actually happens are two different things. As I have stated, there are many factors that go into the chances of someone getting COVID.

It is especially bad to argue to a 2 month trial, close to the start of the pandemic, as though it applies to what has happened since. As I said previously, this is what happens when people don't understand the findings of research and how they apply.

 

[Free]

Oh, you're another one of those who interpret however you want.
Do you really think I said, "So, are you saying that everyone interprets and understands the Bible correctly? "
Is that how you interpret what I said?
I'd say you need some English classes.
You're out of your league on this forum.

If you say so.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

See, you are setting it up so that you're right. Can you not admit that you're wrong?

Only when I am wrong.
You have the far left and all their publicity on your side, I have the facts on my side.

 

[Isilwen]

Only when I am wrong.
You have the far left and all their publicity on your side, I have the facts on my side.

The problem is your facts aren't facts. You think you know what is going on, but you really don't.

Your last few posts to me show that quite well. Any reasonable person who reads through our latest posts will see that you're clinging to false facts and you won't admit that you're wrong.

That's okay. It's your problem, not mine.

Ciao!