Bible Study Lets Talk About God's Will to heal.

[Brother Mike]

I don't believe that.

That's disturbing Gary, very disturbing. I gave you 3 scriptures, something God said to back that statement. We believe Scripture, not what we want to believe.

An example of a Child and a parents faith.

Wife just happened to to be talking with her mom about my son tonight. Not sure what started the conversation, I was doing something else.

My wife told the story about make a wish foundation. A very awesome group of people that help children who are suppose to die to have that last wish come true.

To be eligible, children must meet these criteria at the time of referral:
Diagnosed with a life-threatening condition, i.e., a progressive, degenerative or malignant condition that is placing the child's life in jeopardy

I forgot all about this, but a Doctor at Chicago Memorial Hospital for Children had called Make a Wish and was talking with my wife about my son spending his last few Days in Hawaii to pet dolphins or something.

I had to stay in Champain IL because of Parole and could not be there. So, my wife thinks that is a awesome idea for my son to visit Hawii and was filling out paperwork, and everything.

So my wife calls me and tells me about this wonderful trip. According to the Wife's version tonight, I came unglued a bit.

My Son would actually have to be in danger of dying to go on such a trip. If my son was not in danger of dying, then according to the rules of Make A wish, He did not qualify. The program is for Kids that are expected to die.

Despite what the Doctors said, My son was not going to die. That would be impossible.

Now at the time, my wife was much like some folks around here. Full of unbelief and lack of knowledge. In fact it took her a few years to get over not going to Hawii because she did not understand why I was so set against it.

Today she fully understands, and glad for it. If God can help my wife see things, He can help here also. I hate the devil and the things he does to my Brothers and Sisters.

 

[th1b.taylor]

CE said:

I think He wills to heal some and not others.

You are on the right path but you expressed it incorrectly. It is correctly stated when it reads, "It is His will to heal some and others He uses for ministries the able bodied are not fit for."

 

[Gary]

I hate the devil and the things he does to my Brothers and Sisters.

You can breath easy, he's not doing anything to me.
.

 

[jasonc]

so what if the parents are lost and the child is saved?

 

[Brother Mike]

You can breath easy, he's not doing anything to me.
.

Now that is faith. Statements like that is actually faith. My Brother always confessed he has a imune system like a tank. Just started saying it.
One day were were talking and he was telling me he had not had so much a cold in 6 years.
I asked him, what have you been saying............ Bingo, it occured to him he always said he has an imune system like a tank.

I know that is not an awesome testimony, but Saying and beliving Jesus is Lord is important, and saying the devil won't get me is also important. Part of the Armor of God is the Sword .......

I want people to have the same victory I had Gary. God don't like me any more than anyone else.

so what if the parents are lost and the child is saved?

so what if the parents are lost and the child is saved?

Good question Jason. First, God said those 19 and younger can go to the promise land "DESPITE" the parents saying their children will be prey. God let us know that even though He said the Parents would have to choose life and blessing for their seed to live, in this case concerning the promised land, the Children would make it anyway.

So saved as in not going to hell, Children are just fine.

As for healing? Even strong believers die sick.

We had a Pastor at Rehema die of some sickness in the South Pacific. he taught healing and laid hands on sick folk, but now dead of sickness at a early age.

So Jason, your getting in a area I don't know fully about. It's my stance that a Child is not spiritually responsible and given authority over Satan and his cohorts.

Every story I have heard (Stories, NOT SCRIPTURES) had some interceeding factor for the child if the child was saved.

I don't have a scripture that a Child can even make a choice to be "Born Again" According to Scripture, they make it anyway 19 or younger.

All I have is lots of Stories Jason, I don't have scripture to support anything I would tell you.

Sorry.

 

[jasonc]

Now that is faith. Statements like that is actually faith. My Brother always confessed he has a imune system like a tank. Just started saying it.
One day were were talking and he was telling me he had not had so much a cold in 6 years.
I asked him, what have you been saying............ Bingo, it occured to him he always said he has an imune system like a tank.

I know that is not an awesome testimony, but Saying and beliving Jesus is Lord is important, and saying the devil won't get me is also important. Part of the Armor of God is the Sword .......

I want people to have the same victory I had Gary. God don't like me any more than anyone else.





Good question Jason. First, God said those 19 and younger can go to the promise land "DESPITE" the parents saying their children will be prey. God let us know that even though He said the Parents would have to choose life and blessing for their seed to live, in this case concerning the promised land, the Children would make it anyway.

So saved as in not going to hell, Children are just fine.

As for healing? Even strong believers die sick.

We had a Pastor at Rehema die of some sickness in the South Pacific. he taught healing and laid hands on sick folk, but now dead of sickness at a early age.

So Jason, your getting in a area I don't know fully about. It's my stance that a Child is not spiritually responsible and given authority over Satan and his cohorts.

Every story I have heard (Stories, NOT SCRIPTURES) had some interceeding factor for the child if the child was saved.

I don't have a scripture that a Child can even make a choice to be "Born Again" According to Scripture, they make it anyway 19 or younger.

All I have is lots of Stories Jason, I don't have scripture to support anything I would tell you.

Sorry.

im going to disagree on the age of accountability, based on that is very dependent on the child. my pastor was saved at 3. he remembers that day 50 years later. others its later on but in general the bar and bat mitzvah being an oral tradition since moses and its done at 13. that is based on a statement in the bible. they are to recite the entire torah in Hebrew and learn it. a jew either male or female will know more about the torah then the Christian child in sunday school.

that said im not responsible for my childs choice. I can lead them but I cant make them. there is no promise just because im faithful that they will be as well. if you doubt then how come Solomon failed? surely he did have some teachings from david but davids failure as parent is recorded as well. but Solomon is responsible for his soul and not david. now I could go into the idea of acts 16:31 here and also other accounts similar to that in the torah and elsewhere

 

[LovethroughDove]

Maybe I have a weird perception, but sickness of body can show how God uses that person's faith to the MAX.

Cause, the worst that could happen....is we die bodily and go to paradise.
Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

keys words "his purpose"

Romans 8:37-39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I think it may be a case by case issue. See, I was talking about my own life w/ my older, wiser Pentecostal friend. She said she thinks one reason God has done so much for me is because everything I had was either taken from me or I threw it all away before I was even 20 years old. Not that God is under any obligation to help, but...I was an incredibly childish, childlike, immature teenager. I think maybe Christ was extra-patient with me because I just wasn't as developed as others my age. Also, 19 seems perfectly reasonable to me, given how a lot of people aren't grown up until 25-30, anyway.

 

[jasonc]

I think it may be a case by case issue. See, I was talking about my own life w/ my older, wiser Pentecostal friend. She said she thinks one reason God has done so much for me is because everything I had was either taken from me or I threw it all away before I was even 20 years old. Not that God is under any obligation to help, but...I was an incredibly childish, childlike, immature teenager. I think maybe Christ was extra-patient with me because I just wasn't as developed as others my age. Also, 19 seems perfectly reasonable to me, given how a lot of people aren't grown up until 25-30, anyway.

it depends on the person. it really does. besides when we consider jewish years it shorter then ours. a 19 yr old may be actually a 17 year old. one could marry at the age of 13 in those days with parents choosing the spouse. Imho and most scholars will say that mary the mother of jesus was 15 when she was espoused to joseph.

 

[Brother Mike]

im going to disagree on the age of accountability, based on that is very dependent on the child. my pastor was saved at 3. he remembers that day 50 years later. others its later on but in general the bar and bat mitzvah being an oral tradition since moses and its done at 13. that is based on a statement in the bible. they are to recite the entire torah in Hebrew and learn it. a jew either male or female will know more about the torah then the Christian child in sunday school.

that said im not responsible for my childs choice. I can lead them but I cant make them. there is no promise just because im faithful that they will be as well. if you doubt then how come Solomon failed? surely he did have some teachings from david but davids failure as parent is recorded as well. but Solomon is responsible for his soul and not david. now I could go into the idea of acts 16:31 here and also other accounts similar to that in the torah and elsewhere

I have no doubt about your Pastor, and I argue the point about may daughter "Speaking tongues" as I feel you need to knowly accept Jesus, and be filled with the Holy Spirit by a choice you made. My Daughter is 8. Sure, it sounded like tounges if you say so Honey.

I don't have a scripture though to support your Pastor being saved at 3. I do my best to stick with scriptures to believe something is true. Not saying it's not true, just can't teach that.

As for my kids, I have a 19 year old and a 24 year old. My 24 year old had terminal cancer at 8 years old. I told him that He is no longer under my Covenant but that He needs his own realationship with God. I told him if anything serious like that comes up again, He needs to believe God, I can't do it for him. I can pray with him and agree with him though.

Maybe I have a weird perception, but sickness of body can show how God uses that person's faith to the MAX.

Cause, the worst that could happen....is we die bodily and go to paradise.
Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

keys words "his purpose"

Romans 8:37-39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Sickness is under the curse of the Law for disobedience. Deut 28.
Jesus redeemned us from the curse of the Law.

Sickness serves no purpose but to destory, steal, and kill the quality of life in the sick person and those around them caring for them. It does not produce faith, it produces nothing of any benifit.

If sickness did produce godly things then every person on the planet would be saved, and God would have introduced sickness to Adam.

God would also not made our bodies to self repair.

The body will heal itself of anything if put in the right condition. That is what Doctors do. They don't heal the body, they help take the load off the body so it can heal.

So just because something happens to our body whom God designed can't heal itself without the doctors help, does not mean it's God's will we don't get healed.

Just because the body is in a state the doctors can't even help, does not change the fact it's God's will that we be healed.

just because we can't help our body, the doctors can't, does not mean our body was not designed to heal by God. He did not change his mind about it if man can't do anything.

 

[dianegcook]

He Hath blessed us with all spiritual blessing in Heavenly places.
He Hath given us all things that pertain to life.
By his stripes we are healed.

Jesus said, when you pray, believe that your recieve, then you shall have it.

You can't believe for something that you have if it's not already done and there.



1Co 7:14 amp For the unbelieving husband is set apart (separated, withdrawn from heathen contamination, and affiliated with the Christian people) by union with his consecrated (set-apart) wife, and the unbelieving wife is set apart and separated through union with her consecrated husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean (unblessed heathen, outside the Christian covenant), but as it is they are prepared for God [pure and clean].

Eph 2:12 kjva That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Children.
Without God, folks have no hope IN THIS WORLD. No covanent with God, No hope.

Children are not responsible before God to believe on the promises, or keep Satan away. They are Children and not accountable, nor given authority. The Child is under the covenant that the parent shares with God.

If the Parent is full of unbelief, the child is also in trouble.

Deu 30:19 kjva I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

God said if you choose life, Choose to be blessed, your seed then lives (Children)

Hos 4:6 kjva My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

The Childs protection comes from the obedient and beliving parent. What the Parent believes is going to be the outcome for that child.

I have amazing testimonies of Children being protected, and unfortunatly I have some sad stories about Children not making it. All hinged on the parent the covenant they shared with God.

In Jer.31:30
But everyone shall die for his own iniquity, every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth are set on edge.

We do not pay for our parents sins.
What sin has a child commit before the age of accountability?

Do you think anyone has faith enough to never be sick or die?

 

[AirDancer]

One of my offspring had open heart surgery 2 weeks after her 3rd birthday. Because of her rapid healing capabilities (thanks to our Lord), one of the doctors on her surgical team came to our Lord. He had been a Hindu, but said that because of the miracle he had witnessed, the Christian Lord God was the truth. He said this while sitting on the floor, moving a My Little Pony around on a blanket as my daughter played with the toy ponies.

We had learned late August of that year that she had a heart murmur. A month later, that murmur was still there. The following month, we learned she had a hole in her heart. November verified the hole. Early December, she had surgery. She was on a prayer list that spanned the globe shortly after we learned of the murmur. Our Lord opened every door for the surgery, from which she recovered so quickly and has had absolutely no problems with her heart since. The night before her surgery, He brought special Christians to me to testify that the surgeon was a Christian.

It would have been great if she had not needed the surgery. But because our Lord had other plans, His Will was done. He knows best!

 

[dianegcook]

One of my offspring had open heart surgery 2 weeks after her 3rd birthday. Because of her rapid healing capabilities (thanks to our Lord), one of the doctors on her surgical team came to our Lord. He had been a Hindu, but said that because of the miracle he had witnessed, the Christian Lord God was the truth. He said this while sitting on the floor, moving a My Little Pony around on a blanket as my daughter played with the toy ponies.

We had learned late August of that year that she had a heart murmur. A month later, that murmur was still there. The following month, we learned she had a hole in her heart. November verified the hole. Early December, she had surgery. She was on a prayer list that spanned the globe shortly after we learned of the murmur. Our Lord opened every door for the surgery, from which she recovered so quickly and has had absolutely no problems with her heart since. The night before her surgery, He brought special Christians to me to testify that the surgeon was a Christian.

It would have been great if she had not needed the surgery. But because our Lord had other plans, His Will was done. He knows best!

So happy for you and her.
I did die but came back, guess God had a purpose for that also.
Best wishes and prayers to you all.

 

[AirDancer]

So happy for you and her.
I did die but came back, guess God had a purpose for that also.
Best wishes and prayers to you all.

I'm glad you're with us here! Our Lord is truly marvelous!

 

[Deborah13]

I think He wills to heal some and not others. I will show mercy to whom I will show mercy...

...and there's other issues at work, too. Like, I've been healed of a lot of things caused both by my own past sins and the sins of others. 2 years into being Born Again, I'm physically healthy and remarkably normal. Even my hair grew back, even though I'd scarred my follicles (that form of hair loss is always permanent). My friends' husband, Ronnie, he died of cancer while a lot of God's work in my life was underway. I felt terrible. But my friend, his widow, reminded me that we have a certain number of years on this earth, and then its over. Life is a vapor. Plus, it seems that Ronnie had issues that were popping up besides the initial cancer. Even the if the cancer hadn't taken his life, the developing issues would probably have seriously reduced his quality of life over the rest of his life.

Also, I've read--not in Scripture, mind you...I think CS Lewish (as usual, lol)--that the stuff I've experienced happens a good bit to those who are recently Born Again. We get cleaned up, inside and out, more often than one might expect. And...sometimes, death isn't the worst thing. Scratch that. It generally isn't the worst thing, at least for the believer. Death=full healing on the other side. Cold comfot to a lot of people, but its true.

There's also the ever mysterious issue of God's Will. Does He always will to heal? Paul had some sort of thorn in the flesh that afflicted him until he died. Then again...Tabitha was brought back from the dead. The disabled were made to walk. The blind were made to see. But not all of them.

I dunno...just thinking/writing out loud, because I've been pondering this one, too. I do think healing is for today, for obvious reasons, but it doesn't always happen, and I don't think it indicates a lack of faith or uncofessed sin or anything like that. And healing itself is complicated, as it plays out in real life. For instance, I'm physically healthy and normal and surprisingly smart enough to pursue my goals (I used to be sickly and obviously brain damaged). I also have severe Bipolar I w/psychotic features, which more than likely means long term, possibly indefinite, psychiatric treatment. What's God doing there? I dunno. I'm more mentally ill now than I was before...I'm also smarter and healthier.

I think God does want us to call on Him for all our needs, including healing, but...why are some healed and not others? I dunno. God can look into the future; we can't. God sees to the very core of people and our situations. We tend to see only the surface. Also, sometimes I think God wants to heal through us, and not just through docs. Even if somebody dies, other Christians can help them and their loved ones, through hospice and just getting involved. That can be healing for both the deceased and those around them.

Again, just thinking+writing out loud.

I think you've got a lot of good thoughts in this post. I don't think Paul had a physical illness but other than that I agree with your post.
But then I don't think God has a set in stone hard plan for people's lives. I think sometimes He steps in even when we don't ask Him too, praise the Lord for that, and other times He lets us do things our way. That may be asking Him for guidance or not. Praying for healing then that may include going to the doc or not.
I don't believe God normally causes His children to be sick or to die.
I also believe that we are only held accountable for our own sin, therefore children before the age to know the difference between right and wrong (sin against God) are innocent, no matter what kind of idiots their parents are.

Deu 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Kathi]

so what if the parents are lost and the child is saved?

Parents go to hell child goes to heaven.All children will go to heaven up to the age of accountability and that age is debatable.It is the age where they can be accountable to Christ.

 

[Kathi]

One of my offspring had open heart surgery 2 weeks after her 3rd birthday. Because of her rapid healing capabilities (thanks to our Lord), one of the doctors on her surgical team came to our Lord. He had been a Hindu, but said that because of the miracle he had witnessed, the Christian Lord God was the truth. He said this while sitting on the floor, moving a My Little Pony around on a blanket as my daughter played with the toy ponies.

We had learned late August of that year that she had a heart murmur. A month later, that murmur was still there. The following month, we learned she had a hole in her heart. November verified the hole. Early December, she had surgery. She was on a prayer list that spanned the globe shortly after we learned of the murmur. Our Lord opened every door for the surgery, from which she recovered so quickly and has had absolutely no problems with her heart since. The night before her surgery, He brought special Christians to me to testify that the surgeon was a Christian.

It would have been great if she had not needed the surgery. But because our Lord had other plans, His Will was done. He knows best!

Children who have that surgery do recovery very fast.There is a Dr.Albert Starr who is known worldwide for doing these surgeries on children.A very talented man.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

As an opening verse of Scripture that I feel we should focus on is:
1John 5:14 "And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 5:15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him." (ESV)

My first Scripture that I feel is an answer to our thread is:
Luke 5:12 While he was in one of the cities, there came a man full of leprosy. And when he saw Jesus, he fell on his face and begged him, "Lord, if you will, you can make me clean." 5:13 And Jesus stretched out his hand and touched him, saying, "I will; be clean." And immediately the leprosy left him.

As we can see, it is the will of God to heal. What do you think?

I agree totally Brother Chopper !!

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

The Spirit lead me to this:

2 Corinthians 12:8-9 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.

I know when I was at my lowest point physically and mentally, he showed me his grace.

What do you think this means ?
God said His Grace was Sufficient for thee.....for my power is made perfect in weakness.
God was telling Paul simply this.......Paul you deal with it. You cast it out. You have my word and you have my power and authority.....You do this for I have already done my part. Now then it was up to Paul to either use his authority in Christ and allow the power of God to work on his behalf or continue on dealing with it and excepting it as if he had to have this nagging thing tied around him like a ball and chain.......

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Good point Brother Mike. So from what you just said, I gather that if a person does not get healed, God is willing, but man either doesn't know how to appropriate healing or just doesn't believe it's God's will to heal because he says in his heart "If it's God's will, I'll be healed." Is that right?

Brother Chopper people tend these days to live a no fault religious walk with God. You never know what God will do and God moves in mysterious ways and God put this infliction on me to teach me to be humble....All Hog Wash.
They simply will not take the blame for missing out on Gods will. They make excuses for things and except them and give God credit....

When ever something goes wrong in our walk with Christ.......It is not God's fault.....it will ALWAYS be on our end. When things are not working out right then find out why. Pray and seek God and find out where you are missing it and change the way you have been thinking or doing things...It is always God's will for us to be healthy and whole.