Preterism

[reba]

Half? cute i will tell you my thoughts . please remember i dont fit any one box...

I believe He will return .. I believe they will be the resurrection He speaks of in John on/in the last day. I believe there will be a great judgement..
Pretty much believe the Olivet discourse was the prophecy to Jerusalem of the coming vengeance for the death of Jesus... For not accepting the Son

33 "Hear another parable. There was a householder who planted a vineyard, and set a hedge around it, and dug a wine press in it, and built a tower, and let it out to tenants, and went into another country. 34 When the season of fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the tenants, to get his fruit; 35 and the tenants took his servants and beat one, killed another, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first; and they did the same to them. 37 Afterward he sent his son to them, saying, `They will respect my son.' 38 But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, `This is the heir; come, let us kill him and have his inheritance.' 39 And they took him and cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. 40 When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?" 41 They said to him, "He will put those wretches to a miserable death, and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons." 42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the scriptures: `The very stone which the builders rejected has become the head of the corner; this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes'? 43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation producing the fruits of it."


Full pretertest believe something like this ...We live we die we hit heaven or hell end of story... ( i really dont like speaking for others) I know i dont got that exactly right...

 

[reba]

At the risk of getting anyone upset, may I ask a question pertaining to the OP?

If Preterists believe Jesus has already returned, and that He will not return to earth...... what in the world does a half-Preterist believe... that He will get halfway here, then change His mind?

And, can anyone recommend a site where all this stuff is laid out in some kind of logical order? No disparity intended, but almost anything I've read here (or anywhere else) just adds to the confusion, in my opinion.

There is tons of pro and con stuff on the net... WIKI sheesh seems to do well in explaining without a lot of emotionalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preterism

Please remember these are guide lines not something set in stone..

 

[Willie T]

Half? cute i will tell you my thoughts . please remember i dont fit any one box...

I believe He will return .. I believe they will be the resurrection He speaks of in John on/in the last day. I believe there will be a great judgement..
Pretty much believe the Olivet discourse was the prophecy to Jerusalem of the coming vengeance for the death of Jesus... For not accepting the Son

33 "Hear another parable. There was a householder who planted a vineyard, and set a hedge around it, and dug a wine press in it, and built a tower, and let it out to tenants, and went into another country. 34 When the season of fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the tenants, to get his fruit; 35 and the tenants took his servants and beat one, killed another, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first; and they did the same to them. 37 Afterward he sent his son to them, saying, `They will respect my son.' 38 But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, `This is the heir; come, let us kill him and have his inheritance.' 39 And they took him and cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. 40 When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?" 41 They said to him, "He will put those wretches to a miserable death, and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons." 42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the scriptures: `The very stone which the builders rejected has become the head of the corner; this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes'? 43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation producing the fruits of it."


Full pretertest believe something like this ...We live we die we hit heaven or hell end of story... ( i really dont like speaking for others) I know i dont got that exactly right...

Well, now that's pretty plain.
I also believe the 70 AD happenings. Frankly, it is spelled out so plainly in the scriptures, that I never understood all the association with the "end times" and the "end of the age" with our final redemption thousands of years after all that was so specifically written to the Jews living in Jerusalem in those days. (How many of us live on our roofs... except in NY City? And what is the problem with any of us traveling on the weekend?)

 

[Deborah13]

Well, now that's pretty plain.
I also believe the 70 AD happenings. Frankly, it is spelled out so plainly in the scriptures, that I never understood all the association with the "end times" and the "end of the age" with our final redemption thousands of years after all that was so specifically written to the Jews living in Jerusalem in those days. (How many of us live on our roofs... except in NY City? And what is the problem with any of us traveling on the weekend?)

I've never thought of those things.

 

[Willie T]

I've never thought of those things.

If you are interested, I have an acquaintance that is kind of into that stuff, and he wrote an article about it a couple of years ago for a blog. I could send you the site address (if I can remember where it is) He's also presently in the process of writing a book about it, to be entitled, The End is Not Near.

I guess he could be called a half-preterist ("partial?"), but most of the time he confuses me about as much as most other proponents of that thinking do.

 

[Deborah13]

If you are interested, I have an acquaintance that is kind of into that stuff, and he wrote an article about it a couple of years ago for a blog. I could send you the site address (if I can remember where it is) He's also presently in the process of writing a book about it, to be entitled, The End is Not Near.

I guess he could be called a half-preterist ("partial?"), but most of the time he confuses me about as much as most other proponents of that thinking do.

You could PM it to me.

 

[jasonc]

you may ask me. I have debated this stuff a lot and I know where I can go ask. if I don't know, I don't know. sometimes that is the only answer.

 

[Willie T]

You could PM it to me.

How do you do that on this forum? Is that what "Start a conversation" means?

 

[Deborah13]

How do you do that on this forum? Is that what "Start a conversation" means?

Yep Click on someone's avatar and the black box pops up.

 

[Lloyd]

"Let no-one come down from their rooftops"..

What we're you expecting Jesus to say?

"Let no-one come down from their rooftops, bungalows, 3 bed semi-detacheds, detached, masionettes, flat roofs, loft conversions, trailers, motor-homes, shower rooms" etc etc

LOL. Of course Jesus would speak in language that would be understood by people of His time. Remember, these same disciples when Jesus spoke of the leven of the Pharisees, thought he was talking about bread!

I'm not saying the sentence about the rooftops was intended for a future generation, but I think we need to entertain the possibility that the words of Jesus may well have been intended for us also in many instances.

 

[Willie T]

"Let no-one come down from their rooftops"..

What we're you expecting Jesus to say?

"Let no-one come down from their rooftops, bungalows, 3 bed semi-detacheds, detached, masionettes, flat roofs, loft conversions, trailers, motor-homes, shower rooms" etc etc

LOL. Of course Jesus would speak in language that would be understood by people of His time. Remember, these same disciples when Jesus spoke of the leven of the Pharisees, thought he was talking about bread!

I'm not saying the sentence about the rooftops was intended for a future generation, but I think we need to entertain the possibility that the words of Jesus may well have been intended for us also in many instances.

And, your answer to observing the Jewish Sabbath, and travel restrictions? Today, Jews are not Christians.
Of course we have no idea if the Roman army will burn Cincinnati, or if it will rain comets... but all that stuff was way too clearly specifically written to the audience of that day. We can live out our lives in fear of an impending doomsday, if we choose, but let's not go so far as to say the Bible told us so. That's as big a misreading as to say God poured out His wrath on Jesus on the cross, when that never happened.

 

[JLB]

And, your answer to observing the Jewish Sabbath, and travel restrictions? Today, Jews are not Christians.
Of course we have no idea if the Roman army will burn Cincinnati, or if it will rain comets... but all that stuff was way too clearly specifically written to the audience of that day.

Jerusalem.

This will take place in Jerusalem.

The armies will gather in Jerusalem.

Jesus will return to Jerusalem.

The Temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem.

Jesus was speaking to His disciples on the mount of Olives.

He was answering their question about - 3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

From verse 4 on we have what is known as the Olivet Discourse.

Jesus makes no mention of the events of 70 AD in His Olivet Discourse.

Yet, we have folks trying to establish a connection to that time period by misunderstanding what He said.

Jesus did not return in 70 AD.

The resurrection did not occur in 70 AD.

This takes place at the end of the age, as plainly spoken by the mouth of Zechariah -

1 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south. 5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You. 6 It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The lights will diminish. 7 It shall be one day Which is known to the Lord-- Neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen That it will be light. Zechariah 14:1-7

• For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished.

• And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,

• Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You.

Zechariah spoke of the time when the Lord would return WITH HIS SAINTS!

This is certainly not the events of 70 AD.

10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10

30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


JLB

 

[Willie T]

Do you suppose the martyred saints were not watching the destruction of the Jewish System that killed them... just as we are told, in Hebrews, that a crowd of witnesses surrounds believers all the time? Yet they are never visible.

Of course we still have the end to look forward to, but those guys were clearly being warned by Jesus about 70AD. The only way we can miss it, is to read the passages hoping to confirm our preconceptions. Someone who never had this doomsday stuff preached to them would look at us in disbelief that we could shovel that much misunderstanding into those clearly written words.

 

[JLB]

Do you suppose the martyred saints were not watching the destruction of the Jewish System that killed them... just as we are told, in Hebrews, that a crowd of witnesses surrounds believers all the time? Yet they are never visible.

Of course we still have the end to look forward to, but those guys were clearly being warned about 70AD. The only way we can miss it, is to read the passages hoping to confirm our preconceptions. Someone who never had this doomsday stuff preached to them would look at us in disbelief that we could shovel that much misunderstanding into those clearly written words.

Show us a scripture in the Olivet discourse that refers to the destruction of the city and sanctuary.

 

[Lloyd]

And, your answer to observing the Jewish Sabbath, and travel restrictions? Today, Jews are not Christians.
Of course we have no idea if the Roman army will burn Cincinnati, or if it will rain comets... but all that stuff was way too clearly specifically written to the audience of that day. We can live out our lives in fear of an impending doomsday, if we choose, but let's not go so far as to say the Bible told us so. That's as big a misreading as to say God poured out His wrath on Jesus on the cross, when that never happened.

Hi Willie,

Quick question. Are you a preterist then?

 

[Willie T]

Hi Willie,

Quick question. Are you a preterist then?

I honestly don't even really know what a Preterist is supposed to be. I haven't devoted too much to learning how I am supposed to label people.

 

[JLB]

I honestly don't even really know what a Preterist is supposed to be. I haven't devoted too much to learning how I am supposed to label people.

You are God's child! His son!

Through Jesus Christ our Lord.

That's the only label you will ever need, Brother.

 

[Willie T]

Show us a scripture in the Olivet discourse that refers to the destruction of the city and sanctuary.

You know some scriptures. You know where Jesus said not one stone would be left upon another... and other places.

Please try to refrain from "selective" questions. Is the mountain side the only place you know of that Jesus spoke? It doesn't look good to phrase your questions after the, "Have you quit beating your wife?", model.

 

[Lloyd]

I honestly don't even really know what a Preterist is supposed to be. I haven't devoted too much to learning how I am supposed to label people.

Hi Willie,

The reason I asked was your intial post was "Can someone shed some light on... x, y, z".. and then your posts after that seemed to indicate you'd already made up your mind anyway about end times.

No worries. I am not one for labels either. Take it easy.

 

[Willie T]

Hi Willie,

The reason I asked was your intial post was "Can someone shed some light on... x, y, z".. and then your posts after that seemed to indicate you'd already made up your mind anyway about end times.

No worries. I am not one for labels either. Take it easy.

Sorry, I guess I have spent too much time on CARM where you have to read your own words six times before you post them to try to determine how the "Apologetists" (they actually like to wear the label) will try to reword or angle around a simple observation.

I'll work on the reactions, but it may take a little time.