Bible Study Salvation through sanctification

[Christ_empowered]

hi! I'm jumping in here...probably way too late to say anything profound...

i do believe that we are all to "...work out your salvation with -fear- and -trembling-..."

this is largely for me, so I won't backslide. sanctification is a -major- process in God's work of conforming us unto the image of His son, Jesus.

personally...I'm un-churched. not lazy or "too good" for church, just...total 110% pariah in my area. ouch. cannot say i blame the 'church people,' but...hey, i'll sit this one out for now, thanks. anyway...

And working together with Him, we also urge you not to receive the grace of God in vain... Corinthians 6:1)

-that- verse was vaguely, kinda sorta on my mind thru all this. I try to admonish myself (I know, church would be -really- helpful, here) not to make the grace God has shown me prove fruitless. and then...

2 Timothy 1:9

To my (lapsed...) Presbyterian mind, this indicates a) He called us and b) He has a path for us and a work for us, which to me also means/indicates...

sanctification, the ongoing process of being made less (me, you, whomever) and more Jesus...

is part of God's Divinely preordained plan for each.and.every believer.

i don't doubt that someone else probably posted this already, but...here goes...

Colossians 3:1-4

is salvation achieved thru sanctification? I kind of doubt it. I think its part of God's plan for all His true children, the people who heed the 'inner call' and are redeemed. 1 John 2:19.

so...the occasional (genuine) death bed conversion aside, I think -any- genuine Christian will go thru some trials and tribulations, all part of God's plan for The Elect. James 1:2-4.

ok. I'm finished, for now. and...please be aware that its well past my bedtime and I'm just jumping in, not trying to take over.

 

[GodsGrace]

Honestly, I don’t think he really knows what he is saying.

He is just repeating things he was taught, that is mainly someone else’s opinion mixed with scripture.

It’s frightening to think people would actually their own words,
(those in bold red letters) to the scriptures to “explain” their
theology, then tell you the scriptures you post is false doctrine.

That would be the text book definition of a stronghold.


Then I asked him to explain how we “place our faith” the gift we have received from God, exclusively in the cross and the finished work of Christ.


I gave him many opportunities to explain, even saying, I think you mean we are to trust in Christ, but no explanation was given.


Then he tells us that Jesus has fulfilled all the commandments for us, so if we try to obey the commandments of Jesus Christ, then we are practicing the works of the flesh.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4


Don’t be deceived Wondering, it’s Heresy.




JLB

I know I don't know as much as you do and many times do NOT recognize heresy.

I do know this: JSM DOES teach obedience. They go so far as to believe that just being a homosexual is sin --- even if it's NOT PRACTICED; which I can't even agree with.

That's just an example. They do NOT teach that following commandments is a sin (as I hear many on these forums believe).

When JSM speaks of spiritual adultery, they mean leaving the true faith...perhaps going to a catholic church? They believe the true faith is what we believe: Jesus atoned for our sins and only HE can save us and we must obey His commandments.

I do wish he'd make this more clear.
I mean the other member.

 

[GodsGrace]

hi! I'm jumping in here...probably way too late to say anything profound...

i do believe that we are all to "...work out your salvation with -fear- and -trembling-..."

this is largely for me, so I won't backslide. sanctification is a -major- process in God's work of conforming us unto the image of His son, Jesus.

personally...I'm un-churched. not lazy or "too good" for church, just...total 110% pariah in my area. ouch. cannot say i blame the 'church people,' but...hey, i'll sit this one out for now, thanks. anyway...

And working together with Him, we also urge you not to receive the grace of God in vain... Corinthians 6:1)

-that- verse was vaguely, kinda sorta on my mind thru all this. I try to admonish myself (I know, church would be -really- helpful, here) not to make the grace God has shown me prove fruitless. and then...

2 Timothy 1:9

To my (lapsed...) Presbyterian mind, this indicates a) He called us and b) He has a path for us and a work for us, which to me also means/indicates...

sanctification, the ongoing process of being made less (me, you, whomever) and more Jesus...

is part of God's Divinely preordained plan for each.and.every believer.

i don't doubt that someone else probably posted this already, but...here goes...

Colossians 3:1-4

is salvation achieved thru sanctification? I kind of doubt it. I think its part of God's plan for all His true children, the people who heed the 'inner call' and are redeemed. 1 John 2:19.

so...the occasional (genuine) death bed conversion aside, I think -any- genuine Christian will go thru some trials and tribulations, all part of God's plan for The Elect. James 1:2-4.

ok. I'm finished, for now. and...please be aware that its well past my bedtime and I'm just jumping in, not trying to take over.

You're allowed to "jump in" CE!!

I think your post is very clear and very correct.
I'm a little confused when you say that you don't think salvation is achieved through sanctification....but everything else is right on.
(highlighted by me above)

I think 2 Corinthians 6:1 is a great verse for this.
A great way to explain it, and which I didn't even think of.

2 Corinthians 6:1
And working together with Him, we also urge you not to receive the grace of God in vain--

WORKING TOGETHER WITH HIM...
It is, indeed, a combined effort, a mutual work in progress,
HE directs...WE follow.

 

[JLB]

When JSM speaks of spiritual adultery, they mean leaving the true faith.

Yes. Idolatry is spiritual adultery.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I know I don't know as much as you do and many times do NOT recognize heresy.

I do know this: JSM DOES teach obedience. They go so far as to believe that just being a homosexual is sin --- even if it's NOT PRACTICED; which I can't even agree with.

That's just an example. They do NOT teach that following commandments is a sin (as I hear many on these forums believe).

When JSM speaks of spiritual adultery, they mean leaving the true faith...perhaps going to a catholic church? They believe the true faith is what we believe: Jesus atoned for our sins and only HE can save us and we must obey His commandments.

I do wish he'd make this more clear.
I mean the other member.

That’s why we must ask questions and see what people are teaching.


I don’t know what JSM teaches, I just know what this person is promoting on our Forum, and the “scriptures” he quotes has his own words mixed in.


Saying that if we keep His commandments, we are practicing the works of the flesh is heresy.


Here is what Paul teaches about the works of the flesh -


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


As you can see, practicing the works of the flesh is sin.


Walking in obedience to the Spirit, will result in obeying the Lord and what He taught us, and commanded us, which is the way of Love.

It’s also referred to as obeying the truth.


Love does no harm to our neighbor.


We are called to do good, which Paul calls faith expressing itself through Love.


Why in the world anyone would think this is practicing the works of the flesh, I will never know.




JLB

 

[JLB]

sanctification, the ongoing process of being made less (me, you, whomever) and more Jesus...

Probably the best definition of sanctification I have ever heard.

Very simple and profound.

Straight to the point.




JLB

 

[JLB]

is salvation achieved thru sanctification? I kind of doubt it.

I hope to discuss this statement with you so we can understand what each other believes.


By salvation if you mean being born again, saved, regenerated, then I totally agree with you.

We can be not become more like Jesus and less like ourselves in order to be born again, saved; regenerated.


This is accomplished by the Holy Spirit, when we obey the Gospel.


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23

• Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit.

This is when we are born again, which as you can see is the beginning of the sanctification process.



Receiving the salvation of our soul, at the end of our faith is another matter. (See 1 Peter 1:9)

Sanctification continues with the same principle, which is:

• The Holy Spirit
• Our obedience

Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1


Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears.
Hebrews 12:14-17


Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:



These are just some of the scriptures to consider when discussing salvation through sanctification.


There is initial salvation (Born again).

Then there is receiving the salvation of our soul at the end of our faith.


Which one of these were you referring to when you said:

• is salvation achieved thru sanctification? I kind of doubt it.

But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13

• God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

JLB

 

[Christ_empowered]

hi. i just think of salvation as being...a work in progress, but generally something that "occurs" (sorry, cannot think of a better word) upon genuine repentance and conversion. no doubt, 'faith without works is dead,' but...

to my mind, "salvation" without sanctification following it would be a false conversion. everybody else...sanctification follows repentance and conversion, so its part of the process, but i do not think that the sanctification process -produces- salvation; i think sanctification (and perseverance in the faith) follow genuine conversion.

 

[JLB]

hi. i just think of salvation as being...a work in progress, but generally something that "occurs" (sorry, cannot think of a better word) upon genuine repentance and conversion. no doubt, 'faith without works is dead,' but...

to my mind, "salvation" without sanctification following it would be a false conversion. everybody else...sanctification follows repentance and conversion, so its part of the process, but i do not think that the sanctification process -produces- salvation; i think sanctification (and perseverance in the faith) follow genuine conversion.

Ok fair enough.


I have seen some great growth in you and am encouraged by your posts.


God bless you and thank you for your contribution to this thread.




JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

hi. i just think of salvation as being...a work in progress, but generally something that "occurs" (sorry, cannot think of a better word) upon genuine repentance and conversion. no doubt, 'faith without works is dead,' but...

to my mind, "salvation" without sanctification following it would be a false conversion. everybody else...sanctification follows repentance and conversion, so its part of the process, but i do not think that the sanctification process -produces- salvation; i think sanctification (and perseverance in the faith) follow genuine conversion.

Amen CE.
Well said.

What occurs is justification.
An immediate act of God taken upon our repentance when He declares us not guilty of all previous sin and declares us saved and a child of His.

Sanctification, as you've stated, is all that comes after.

 

[JLB]

Another important aspect of sanctification is to remove ourselves from and keep ourselves from immoral people, and by that I mean immoral Christians, because of the principle of defilement, which would be the opposite of sanctification.

Defilement is corruption and those who walk in sin, can defile us by what is coming out of their heart.


Do not be deceived: “Evil company corrupts good habits.” Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.
1 Corinthians 15:33-34



When He had entered a house away from the crowd, His disciples asked Him concerning the parable. So He said to them, “Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?” And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a man.” Mark 7:17-23

• All these evil things come from within and defile a man.

Paul says it this way -


I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person. 1 Corinthians 5:9-11


To remove ourselves from such people is the work of being “set apart”, and requires obedience.



JLB