Hi
Uncle J
I get where you're coming from, but my view on gods creating things one way, but making them seem like they came about another way is deceptive. For example, some of the things we see in the distant galaxy aren't just "things", they are events like supernovae. Why would a god create starlight depicting a supernova in such a way that it looks like it's really, really far away and took place a very long time ago, when in reality it never actually happened?
I get that. And I was once a believer in the exact same thing!!! I was raised in the 60-70's when all these things were taught. I once also believed that the creation has existed for trillions and trillions and trillions of years. But then I read the Scriptures and began asking why, and what does God say about the answer to such questions.
Like, why would the creation just sit around for all that time without man in it? According to the Scriptures, that was His sole purpose for creating. I mean, and yes, this is for those who believe and you would have to come to grips with that in your life, but there are some pretty substantial 'rewards' for doing that, but it has to be a personal choice about what you want to believe is the answer to the Question: How did we get here? For those who believe God's word, and as we've discussed, my beginning belief in God came when I really studied those prophecies which convinced me that there is a God. That it would seem, based on those fulfilled prophecies, that He does know the end from the beginning. So why would the creation of planets and stars and all of that just sit there for billions of years, as we understand time, before this God was able to, or chose to complete the project, and then turn around and tell us that it didn't take that time.
But yes, one must believe of the Scriptures that they are true.
As to your query about it seeming somehow devious that the account in the Scriptures can be true, and yet the wisdom of man can seemingly prove it wrong? I contend that it isn't God lying to us. It isn't God attempting to deceive us. He merely made things as they are and we look at them and figure out ways that their physical make-up somehow points to the truth... but it doesn't, and certainly not by any intent of God. It's just how God made things. He didn't intend for us to look at everything that He made and try to determine when it was made. Although I'm sure He did know that we would. He made the things that He made for the purposes for which they serve, to provide a place for mankind to live, and how those elemental forces break down and operate is not something that we are wise enough to figure out, and so He has told us.
For the believer, the creation event is a miracle. However, among the believers there is some strong disagreement as to whether that miracle was exactly as God has said, or whether there is some hidden meaning about it that we just don't understand. But that's not on God!!~!!!!! That's on us!!!!!! God has told us the truth, but men have devised ways to deny it. And that has been adopted by many in the church. I'd honestly say a fairly large majority these days. That doesn't make it true, though. It's really terribly simple, when you break it down to its working parts.
God created. Man looks at what God has created and then comes up with a bunch of theories about how he did it. That's not on God, but man then turns around and says, "Well, if God did it like He said He did, then He's a liar because we can't figure that out. The best we can do is say that it's been here for billions of years and here's why we say that..." That's why I say, when scientists can tell me 'how' God did the seemingly much simpler miracles of parting a sea or turning back the shadow of the sun... then I'll look into whether or not they can answer the greatest miracle of creation that we have to date.
And friend, I don't condemn you. But my prayer is that one day you will understand that promise that God has given us. I enjoy sharing with you and as I've said you seem like a perfectly reasonable person. That's one of the reasons that I got into this discussion with you. But yes, I understand that there has to be a desire to seek for God and my prayer is that one day you will have that... again.
BTW, while I'm sure there'll be some disagreement as to what this particular passage says, Paul does warn us of this knowledge. He writes to the Galatian believers:
"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ."
Now depending on translation, this verse seems to point to this hollow philosophy (learning/study) that depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces is something that we should be on the watch for. And many accept those forces as being strictly spiritual and not applicable to philosophies of what we learn. But various translations put the onus on rather the elemental properties of the earth.
For example the Holman version:
Be careful that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deceit based on human tradition, based on the elemental forces of the world, and not based on Christ.
The KJV:
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
So, I believe that Paul is warning us of our being taught things that are merely based on how the world looks in its physical elemental properties rather than understanding that Christ made this!!! He made it all!!!!!
But, as I say, it's a debatable point even among the church.
Why would a god create starlight depicting a supernova in such a way that it looks like it's really, really far away and took place a very long time ago, when in reality it never actually happened?
Who says it never happened? I've never said that. My contention has always been that this idea that our being able to see what's out there is based on merely the speed of light. That supernova is out there! It was out there on the day that God created everything else in the universe. And you see it today for the same reason that Adam saw it. When God created all the heavenly bodies, the purpose was to declare to us, His power and glory. His majesty and wisdom. How much awesomely greater He is than us...but he loves us. So, when He spoke the stars in the universe to exist, I contend that He made them visible to man immediately upon their creation. Now, 'how' He did that will be answered when we know 'how' He parted that sea! God is the God of miracles. And lowly unwise little man, isn't ever going to be able to understand the mechanical workings of how God creates. We just believe, although I hate to relate it in such a human way, that it is akin to a magician pulling a rabbit from his hat. It's pretty instantaneous, although yes, the magician didn't also make the rabbit in that moment. God says He did.
So, that super nova is out there. How you got to see it in the span of the 6,000 years or so of God's account, is all on God. And science can't accept any of that because it's not something you can prove. In our feeble attempts to know God, there's no way that a man can prove the things that He does. But yes, you have to believe in the God of the Scriptures to even begin to think that way.
And please, again. They don't do it with intent to deceive. It's not something, just as pharoah didn't know that at some point God wasn't allowing him to let the people go, that we are aware of in any way within our own mind or spirit is not true. We absolutely believe that it is. But the sad part about deception, before its revealed, is that people don't see it. When a thief deceives you and has you follow him somewhere where he's set to rob you, you don't willingly go with him expecting that purpose. He has told you something. You believe him. And you go. Later finding out that it was all a lie, but it's too late. We're just talking that scenario as it applies on a cosmic scale.
God bless,
Ted