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Edward said:
What hasn't been mentioned is that, God will not be mocked. Hearers of the word only, may be in for a surprise one day. If they've not produced any fruits...the branch will be pruned off of the tree and cast into the fire.

The blood sacrifice dealt with sin. But those who continue on their merry sinful way, and not maturing and bearing fruit...will be pruned.

Even ones chanting everything's good because of the atonement. We have to walk the walk and bear fruit or it makes a mockery of God's gift to us...and God will not be mocked.

There. That's what we were missing in this discussion. :wink
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:clap :agreed :thumbsup
 
Jim Parker said:
We must not understand that "inner working" of God to eliminate the necessity for man to exercise his free will to co-operate with God.
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If by "cooperate" you mean "desiring" and "doing "His good pleasure," this is what He causes in us concerning our walk and service (Phl 2:13).

Blessings!
 
Jim Parker said:
a denial of man's free will to choose to be faithful or to refuse to be faithful.
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I wanted to share here that all who are reborn will always choose God's will over everything, since, again mentioning, this is what He "works" in believers. Thus it's not as though anyone reborn would choose anything other than this (Phl 2:13). If they eventually choose against God's work it's solely due to His absence within, for once we are reborn, why would there ever be a resistance to His working in us (Rom 9:19-21).

Blessings!
 
Kidron said:
If that were true then churches would not be filled with the overweight living dead
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I believe the Church is in its maturing stage and are being led to read and study the Word at a sufficient level, which many, even numerous years after rebirth have yet to encounter. We should also realize that many of those who never show any growth in Christ could well be false professors, but this is not usually something another can be definite about, it would require the ability to read minds.
Blessings!
 
Scriptural balance is to take every Word of God and personally apply every Word. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4.

It is not an easy gig to deal with Gods Word in this way. Particularly as it applies to the Words we don't like or care to hear.

But it IS what we are called to do, individually. Jesus employs classic "IF/THEN" reasoning in this matter.

John 8:31
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

One of the first pit stops to make in this endeavor is to avoid hypocrisy. Jesus gives this warning to disciples, FIRST of all.

Luke 12:1
In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

The second stop for disciples is hatred of self:

Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

These are the TWO highest hurdles for any disciples of Jesus to JUMP. Those who have not jumped through these hoops are not disciples, easily discerned as NOT. That does not mean I don't think such are not saved. But there is a road to travel to be His Disciple.
 
netchaplain said:
I wanted to share here that all who are reborn will always choose God's will over everything, since, again mentioning, this is what He "works" in believers. Thus it's not as though anyone reborn would choose anything other than this (Phl 2:13). If they eventually choose against God's work it's solely due to His absence within, for once we are reborn, why would there ever be a resistance to His working in us (Rom 9:19-21).

Blessings!
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No, they will not and can not. A disciple understands that our own flesh is against and contrary to the Spirit. Gal. 5:17. Paul describes this in Romans as the "wretched man that I am" condition.

There is no decision made by us, freewill or otherwise, that will alleviate or change the vile body from what it currently is, which is AGAINST and CONTRARY to the Spirit.

Those who sit happy in their flesh are simply not listening.
 
Kidron said:
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Yes, you can tell the "church" is maturing in is spirituality and its dedication to Christ and its power in prayer.
Just look at the country.
Its obvious that you are right.
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As the churches draw ever closer to our own JUDGMENT, the world is guaranteed to go the other way.

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
 
smaller said:
As the churches draw ever closer to our own JUDGMENT, the world is guaranteed to go the other way.

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
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--
You're preaching to the choir...:thumb
= Laodicea
= you've arrived.

The church is now at its worst while the world is at its worst.
A peoples leaders are evil because the people are evil. Psalm 12:8
Welcome to the end times, smaller.....glad you could be here with the rest of us.
edited reba
 
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smaller said:
No, they will not and can not. A disciple understands that our own flesh is against and contrary to the Spirit. Gal. 5:17. Paul describes this in Romans as the "wretched man that I am" condition.

There is no decision made by us, freewill or otherwise, that will alleviate or change the vile body from what it currently is, which is AGAINST and CONTRARY to the Spirit.

Those who sit happy in their flesh are simply not listening.
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One reborn does not choose to sin when it occurs, thus it is always as an unwilling subject ("captive" Rom 7:23), unlike being a willing subject as the natural man.
 
I'm not so sure that it's that bad yet. While many (most?) churches are in need of a reawakening right now, there's plenty of evidence that God is moving and even performing many miracles throughout the entire world.

If so, that may mean that these are the good ol days...
 
netchaplain said:
One reborn does not choose to sin when it occurs, thus it is always as an unwilling subject ("captive" Rom 7:23), unlike being a willing subject as the natural man.
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I would respectfully submit that sin dwells in our flesh and evil is present with us regardless of choices. Romans 7:17-21
 
netchaplain said:
"Maturing stage", as in the process towards maturity which has not been met. Considering God's work in all reborn (Phl 2:13), this is ongoing, regardless the level of progress.
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Well, as i said, the "level of maturity in the body of Christ" 1996-2016... is to see what is happening outside the church walls you are speaking about.
Have you been out recently?
Its a transgendered jungle out there.
Up has become down, in has become out, and wrong has become right.
But yes, you scripture is accurate as "Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith', and "God who began a good work in all believers, is faithful to complete it".
Of course.
 
netchaplain said:
I believe the Church is in its maturing stage
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I would ask where?
The church in China is under great persecution and the Church in the middle east is experiencing worse at the hands of ISIS. They are learning what it means to suffer for Christ and to "fill up in (their) flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church," (Col 1:24 NKJV)
Meanwhile, the church is the USA is drifting into apostasy as more and more denominations officially declare homosexual "marriage" to be an estate blessed by God thus leading men to hell for the sake of garnering the approval of men rather than of God.
Thus the leaders of these denominations show no fear of God and teach their followers to behave similarly. That is not a coming to maturity in Christ; it is a resurgence of paganism.

But there are yet 7000 who have not bowed the knee to Baal.

IMHO
 
Kidron said:
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Well, as i said, the "level of maturity in the body of Christ" 1996-2016... is to see what is happening outside the church walls you are speaking about.
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My reference is to the members of the Church who are born again and their growth, not what the unbelievers are doing. The reference for spiritual growth is what believers are doing that mostly concerns their actions to one another in the Body, and it is this the world looks at (John 13:35) for our witness to them. Could be we're discussing different issues but that's okay is so.
 
netchaplain said:
A significant issue with the Christian is that he doses not "willfully sin" (Heb 10:26), e.g. choose to sin.
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That may make sense if one is doing theology.
In real life, not so much.
From time to time Christians do sin intentionally. (Like Peter who lied three times saying he didn't know Jesus)
The key is that Christians do not "practice" sin; sin does not define the way Christians live. Repentance does.
 
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