Submitting to a non-Christian husband

[jeans67]

I think I just need emotional support. I have been married to my husband for 8 years. We have 2 children, one daughter (14) from my previous marriage, and one son (7) from our marriage together. We have both been married before -- me once, and him twice. When we were married 8 years ago, I was not living a Christian life. We went to bars together, and drank alot. Pretty much I had no regard for what it meant to be a Christian, even though I had professed Christ as my savior when I was 12.

About 5 years ago, I started going to church, rededicated my life to Christ, and became active in Bible studies, church, etc. I do not drink anymore, except for an occasional glass of wine. We don't go out to bars anymore. My husband is a heavy beer drinker, and also drinks whiskey occasionally. He drinks beer every single day of his life. If we do go out, he drinks even more, and he can become visibly drunk -- although he wouldn't admit it. He has a very high alcohol tolerance.

About 2 years ago, after much prayer, Bible Study, and a lot of discussion with Christian friends, I decided to finally make my husband the "head of our home", leaving most of the decision making, and all the financial decisions to him. I have worked hard to do this, as I was always the one "running the home". I have changed dramatically in these last couple of years, working hard to submit to his decision-making. I must also say that I had quit work 3 years ago to stay at home with my children.

Once I had really made a commitment to submit to my husband as head of our home, he decided that I should go back to work for financial reasons. Well, we really would be fine financially, except my husband has the earthly desire for many material things, such as a huge 14' X 90' shed, and various forms of equipment, etc. for our country life. Although these are "nice to have", they are not necessary, and will increase our cost of living (taxes, insurance, maintenance, electric, etc.). So, in submission to my husband, I am now working at our local school district, and going to school to get my Master's degree in teaching Special Education.

I am seeking other spouses in my situation for support and encouragement. My husband is not abusive, and he loves me very much. My emotional pain comes from an unequally yoked marriage. In addition, I ache for him to become a true Christian so he will have eternity in heaven. I am scared that he is lost. In addition, it is difficult to submit and have a gentle and quiet spirit when his agenda is so different from mine. He has not asked me to do unbiblical things, so from my understanding of the Bible -- I am to submit to my husband unless it goes against Christ and God's Word. He has not asked me to drink with him, although I sometimes feel that he misses having the wife that would "party" with him. It has created somewhat of a chasm, although not a huge one.

I pray for him, and I have hope that he will come to Christ someday, and quit his drinking, become the true spiritual leader of our home, and thirst for God's Word. However, I have known people who have prayed for years for their loved ones, and their loved ones still died without Christ. They lived their entire marriage unequally yoked.

Anyone who could post words of encouragement, empathy, or just share their own stories would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks so much!
jeans67

 

[Quath]

The toughest thing to a relationship is when someone changes. The bigger the change, the harder it is. I am not a Christian, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

What if you knew he would never join the church. Would you still want to be with him?

Is his drinking a real problem (drinking & driving or costs a lot of har earned money) or just something you disapprove of now?

Did he want to be the head of the home? How has he taken to that?

Quath

 

[lovely]

Jean,

It sounds like you have such a sweet spirit. I think you are doing so great. It is very difficult to submit to begin with, much less in a situation when the other person has a vision for the family that isn't God centered. Your husband was head of your home before you put him there in your life. You are submitting to God, ultimately. I am very encouraged by what you wrote, but I am also sad for you, my sister, that you have the pain of being unequally yoked. As I shared in another thread, I had a very dear friend who went through this for years. The thread is "Does you spouse Go to church with you.

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=16192

Jean, I think you are doing what's right. If your husband desires you to work...then do so as unto the Lord. Be joyful in all you do. Allow God to be your strength, rest in Him, and most of all keep faith that He will one day have mercy on your husband's soul. You are not in battle with your husband, ever. You are his wife, there to help him in his vision for your family, and to also be a servant of Christ. This glorifys God. Continue to pray, lift him up, and thank God for such a wonderful man. And that gentle and quiet spirit in you will be a blessing to your husband. You are doing right, do not grow weary in well doing, be encouraged. Don't look to this world for answers when you are feeling worn and tired, but trust in God and His Word. God works in the unseen, and the miracle of salvation can happen to anyone. I will pray for his salvation, and your continued encouragement as you serve God joyfully, and thankfully.

Blessings

 

[jeans67]

Answers to Quath

The toughest thing to a relationship is when someone changes. The bigger the change, the harder it is. I am not a Christian, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

What if you knew he would never join the church. Would you still want to be with him? Yes, I would still be with him. I am committed to my marriage.

Is his drinking a real problem (drinking & driving or costs a lot of har earned money) or just something you disapprove of now? No. It is not a really big problem, although it costs more than I would like. No DUIs, and he doesn't hang out at the bar. My main concern is his health.

Did he want to be the head of the home? How has he taken to that? I know he wanted to take over the finances. Money was always a big issue with us, and still is for him. I don't worry about it as much. He is still getting used to the idea of being the "decision-maker". I never said "Honey, I have decided to let you be the head of the home -- as you should be." I have just started doing it in action, not words. It is a continual growing and learning process, though, as I still struggle myself with always asking him for his decision.

Quath

 

[jeans67]

Thanks lovely

Thank you so much for your reply. What you have said really hits home, and I appreciate your reference to the topic "Does your spouse go to church?" I especially liked the article you referred to. I believe that you are absolutely right in all you said. I also believe that submission is not about control, but about voluntarily coming under the authority of your husband. It is about love, not control. My husband is in no way controlling. Actually, he is very laid back, and rather submissive himself. It is very much like the woman who has to lie down in order for her husband to take the lead. I took the lead for so long that my husband has to learn how to take the lead, and also learn that I am GIVING him the lead now. It is not easy, and it is a continual process. The drinking and the fact that I am not sure he is truly a Christian are worries for me because of the obvious -- his health and his eternal salvation. I do not nag my husband about his drinking. If I ever say anything, which is very rare, it is usually that I worry about his health. I've learned one very important lesson growing up in a family with many alcoholics -- you cannot stop someone from drinking, no matter how much you want to make them stop! My husband will only stop drinking if he desires to stop, and at this point it is my guess that he would only want to if he came to know Christ personally. It would then be the Holy Spirit's conviction of his heart that would cause him to want to stop drinking.

Thanks again for your kind and thoughtful reply.

Take care,
Jeans

 

[lovely]

Jean,

Your reply was a blessing to read, your welcome.

 

[Quath]

Do you think you will be happy in heaven if your husband goes to hell?

What does your husband believe? Do you talk about your belief systems much?

So far it sounds like a good marriage. I would hate to see this develop into a wedge between you two.

Quath

 

[jeans67]

Response to Quath

Hi Quath. Yes, I believe I will be happy in heaven if my husband goes to hell. That's because I believe that in heaven there will be no more tears and no more pain. Of course, here on earth, I will be unhappy while I am alive, if I think my husband will go to hell. If he dies before me and he was still unsaved, I would be grieving while I was alive about his eternal destiny. But I believe that once my body is dead and my spirit is with Jesus, I will be happy in heaven forever.

My husband and I don't talk about our beliefs much because he "clams up" when we talk about it. If a circumstance arises where belief can be discussed naturally, we might talk about it. My husband says he is saved, because he was confirmed at the age of 12 in a Catholic Church. I do not believe that confirmation in a Catholic church means you are saved. Being saved means you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour, and you have given your heart, soul, and mind to Him. Of course, I cannot know my husband's heart -- only God can know that. Perhaps my husband is saved, but is not living a Christian life. As I said, only God can know his heart.

It will not create a wedge, except for what would be expected when two people are living according to different priorities in life -- my husband is living according to earthly priorities, and I am trying to live according to God's priorities. However, because I am committed to this marriage, I do not believe it will drive us apart. My beliefs do not interfere with my husband's life. If I were to nag him incessantly about his drinking, not going to church with me, etc., then it would probably cause a huge rift in our relationship. I have worked hard over the last few years to change my responses to him to be more accepting and not rejecting. Of course, I cannot say what my husband will do, but I will not leave him (even though I have felt it many times). I am putting my trust in God to do whatever His will is in our lives, whether that includes my husband to stop drinking and to make Jesus the Lord of his life, or not.

Thanks for your response. These questions and discussions help me to solidify my thoughts and feelings regarding this whole situation.

In Christ,
Jeans

 

[Quath]

I had a friend in college. This guy would chew tobacco, sleep around, drink all night, cheat on his girlfriend, never go to church and curse like a sailor. So one day we were all chatting about our beliefs. He said he was a Christian. So we brought up all that stuff I just mentioned.

He said, "I said I was a Christian. I didn't say I was a good one."

Well, that cracked us all up.

However, who is to say that his relationship with God is suppose to be like other people's relationship with God. Maybe your husband has his own relationship that will be different from your relationship.

Quath

 

[Nikki]

Re: Thanks lovely

Thank you so much for your reply. What you have said really hits home, and I appreciate your reference to the topic "Does your spouse go to church?" I especially liked the article you referred to. I believe that you are absolutely right in all you said. I also believe that submission is not about control, but about voluntarily coming under the authority of your husband. It is about love, not control. My husband is in no way controlling. Actually, he is very laid back, and rather submissive himself. It is very much like the woman who has to lie down in order for her husband to take the lead. I took the lead for so long that my husband has to learn how to take the lead, and also learn that I am GIVING him the lead now. It is not easy, and it is a continual process. The drinking and the fact that I am not sure he is truly a Christian are worries for me because of the obvious -- his health and his eternal salvation. I do not nag my husband about his drinking. If I ever say anything, which is very rare, it is usually that I worry about his health. I've learned one very important lesson growing up in a family with many alcoholics -- you cannot stop someone from drinking, no matter how much you want to make them stop! My husband will only stop drinking if he desires to stop, and at this point it is my guess that he would only want to if he came to know Christ personally. It would then be the Holy Spirit's conviction of his heart that would cause him to want to stop drinking.

Thanks again for your kind and thoughtful reply.

Take care,
Jeans

I've been trying to keep my mouth shut, but I can't any longer.

You say your husband isn't controlling. Ummmm...sorry, but when a husband decides that you have to work so he can have materialistic things, then that is controlling, IMO.

Lovely has talked to me about my deal with my hubby not willing to go to a church other than a baptist church. But he has never ever forced me to go to a certain church. My husband has never forced me to do anything. Even when he refused to accept his biracial niece, he told me that he couldn't tell me what to do and that if I wanted to be in her life, then that was up to me.

I just don't see 50/50 in your marriage and IMO, that's what a marriage should be.

Maybe you and lovely are better wives than me, but I think some take the whole "submissive" thing a bit too far.

My heart breaks for you because I know you're hurting. I'm not the best person for advice in these kind of situations because I'm not the type to give 90% and my hubby only give 10%. He better give the same amount as me and not "expect" me to do anything that I don't want to do! That's my stubborness coming out! If I don't want to go to his kind of church, I WON'T. If I don't want to have sex on a particular night, I WON'T. Etc, Etc...

 

[Nikki]

Do you think you will be happy in heaven if your husband goes to hell?

What does your husband believe? Do you talk about your belief systems much?

So far it sounds like a good marriage. I would hate to see this develop into a wedge between you two.

Quath

There is no sadness in heaven, so that won't be an issue for her.

 

[lovely]

Nikki wrote:

Maybe you and lovely are better wives than me, but I think some take the whole "submissive" thing a bit too far.

I do not know what I have ever written that indicated that I thought I was a better wife than you, but I assure you that I do not compare myself to others in this way. By the standard of Christ, I fail. You are my sister in Christ, and I love you as such. I do not view you as my competition to drive myself to be better. I trust God to make me what I am. He has taken a broken vessel, and made it useful, and I don't care if I am the least of the bunch as long as I am what He wants me to be, and as long as I serve His purpose and glorify Him. I don't deserve to be the object of His love at any rate.

I take Him at His Word. When I speak to you, and others here, about submission, it is because I love His word, and I desire to encourage others in love. I do not understand exactly what you mean by taking the "submissive" thing too far. I do not think we can take our obedience to God too far. I am glad that Christ did not feel this way. I do not love this world, nor do I desire to be like those that do. I made mistakes in my marriage, but I also grew and learned a lot, by the grace of God, that brought me nearer to my Saviour. I was led by a very precious believer, whom I loved, and love, a great deal. He led, loved, and protected his family in a very serious way, and the results of that are still with me, and our children. It's not just wives submitting, but also husband's leading. I do not feel my husband took it too far. I was blessed by his dedication to the ministry of husband and father that God had given him. But more than that, I am deeply in love with Christ, and unashamedly so. I want to please Him more than anyone, and I desire more than anything to meet Him and worship at His feet. I hang on His every Word, and I ask Him to help me apply it to my life. I don't care how that makes me look to others.

Marriage is a picture of Christ and His church, and it has been distorted by feminism. This makes me sick, and it goes against God's word. His way is best, not what we reason to be best, or what the world says is best. God has prepared me to be a woman for a very special ministry of service to my husband and children. Why would I want to be less than what He created me to be? The deceiver would have me believe that if I assert myself, then I am more, but that's a lie. To step out of the position He created for me, is disobedience. I want to be adorned with a meek and gentle spirit that desires to be obedient to my Lord, and my husband. I see nothing but beauty in the picture that God has created, and I am not ashamed that I love His Word, and that I desire to be given over to it fully in my life. I want to please Him, no matter what this world thinks. Only if I could obey more, and conform to His image, more...what a blessing that would be in my life, and in the lives of my children. I fall so short, though.

I guess I just wanted to explain my heart to you, Nikki, because of the statements you made. To love God, is to deny ourselves. I do not believe what you have posted aligns with Scripture. I am sorry if that hurts you, but the truth is, it doesn't. And it doesn't do any of us any good to willfully disobey God. I don't even want to. So, you are entitled to your opinion, and we hear many here, but God's Word is what changes us. It is far wiser than man. I have read over my posts. I do not believe that I have said anything that has not been out of love, nor have I ever once indicated that I felt I was a better wife than anyone else. I just simply do not feel that way. I look back now and think of all the things I could have done better, ways I could have served him more. I just want to obey God, and encourage others in Truth, the way I want them to encourage me when I need it. Honestly, you seem upset, and I don't know why you are. I will keep you in my prayers. Blessings.

Ephesians 5:22-33
Marriage Like Christ and the Church
22 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.
24 But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,
26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
27 that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.
28 So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself;
29 for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church,
30 because we are members of His body.
31 FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.
32 This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.
33Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.

 

[jeans67]

Nikki, Lovely & Quath

Nikki,

I was once just like you, and vestiges remain. I am not a better wife than anybody. I still struggle with the very issues you have mentioned. I am a work in progress. Yes, it would be fair if everything was 50/50, but life is just not that way. And as Lovely as said, expecting something back is not scriptural. Our human-ness leads us to a conditional love -- we will love someone if they will love us back. We will give them something if they will give us something back, etc. However, this is not what Christ teaches. Christ loved us, even as we killed him on the cross. I say "we", because it is our sin that he died for. As they hung him on the cross, he still loved and prayed for those who killed them, saying "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do!"

I used to think everything had to be fair (50/50). When I worked full time at a corporation, I used to be gone 11 hours a day and then come home and do just about everything at home too. I used to be so angry and resentful at my predicament. It just wasn't fair! This anger became nearly a hatred toward my husband. I was miserable and unhappy every day of my life. I thought so much of how "I" wasn't getting this or that, or "I" couldn't do this or that, or "I" am so tired of this. I was so self-centered! Self-centered is totally unscriptural. Christ even tells us to "die" to ourselves so we can live for him.

Only in the last 2-3 years have I started applying this scriptural representation of love to my marriage. I am much happier than I ever was. Has my husband changed? Yes, he has changed some. Has he changed as much as I'd like him too? No. Should I worry about that? No. Because it is not my responsibility to change him. I can't. Only God can. Do I trust God to do what's best? Yes, I try to. It is not always easy. What if my husband never changes? Well, I wish he would stop drinking and chewing tobacco, and yes--he curses too, although not around the children. But should I be miserable every day of my life because of this? No. My relationship with God comes first, and I know that God is always there for me. I also know that God loves me even when I am sinning (every day, I might add). So why shouldn't I love my husband with this same kind of love? God does not say that he will only love me if I love him back. Or he'll only give me something if I give him something back. He gave me life even though I don't deserve it. He has given me a family, a house, a nice place in the country, health, friends, etc. Do I give him back an "equal" amount of my attention? Absolutely not! God deserves much more from me -- but I am not able to give it! That's why I am so thankful he loved me so much to die for me. That's the kind of sacrificial love I am trying to give to my husband.

Nikki, I hope this makes sense to you. I was just like you! It seems like you are angry because you don't feel that you are in a 50/50 relationship with your husband. We are not in a 50/50 relationship with God. God's promise to us was 100% him to 0% us. We just have to accept his gift. I still struggle with some of the same things you are talking about, but I try continually to turn it over to God.

Take care, and God bless,
Jeans

 

[jeans67]

I understand...

I had a friend in college. This guy would chew tobacco, sleep around, drink all night, cheat on his girlfriend, never go to church and curse like a sailor. So one day we were all chatting about our beliefs. He said he was a Christian. So we brought up all that stuff I just mentioned.

He said, "I said I was a Christian. I didn't say I was a good one." Who is?

Well, that cracked us all up.

However, who is to say that his relationship with God is suppose to be like other people's relationship with God. Maybe your husband has his own relationship that will be different from your relationship.

I do believe that there are Christians who struggle with addictions. We are all human, after all. God's children stuggle with all the same temptations and sins that anyone in this world struggles with. I used to think that if you drink, you cannot be a Christian. I believe that to be false now. Because I am a Christian, I CHOOSE not to drink. However, I believe that a Christian can succomb to such temptations, and still be a Christian. A Christian with such an addiction would need to willingly submit themselves to God, pray that He would remove the desire to drink, and seek additional help if needed. Unfortunately, we usually don't willingly submit "ALL" of our life to Christ. Many of us choose to hold back areas, such as forgiving someone you don't want to forgive, feeling self-pity, with-holding love from someone because you're angry, etc.

P.S. I also believe that there are people who believe they are Christians because they go to church, or for whatever reason, but they really are not Christians at all. I believe many so-called "Christians" are deceived. The road is narrow...


Quath

 

[Nikki]

Lovely,

I know you never implied that you were a better wife. I was just using that as a comparison because I just don't see it the way you do. I don't believe that God meant for wives to do things that they don't want to. What kind of marriage is that? Now if the wife is refusing all the time, then that may be different. But here and there...NO.

I read about marriages where the husbands are alcoholics, abusive, sending all the money, etc and I just don't and WON'T ever understand why the wives bend over backwards to please them. A marriage shouldn't be like that.

And if I seemed upset, yes I was. Not at you or anyone else, but at the whole fact that I don't understand why women stay in marriages that aren't 50/50! I believe that everyone should be happy.

You know, I posted about my hubby not wanting to go to a church other than baptist. I was so angry and hurt in the beginning. But after a while I realized that I can't make him do anything. He's said the same with me...he can't make me do anything. And we're both fine about that now. He works just about every Sunday anyways, so he told me to find a church that me and the kids like. He feels that he doesn't HAVE to go to church at all in order to have a good relationship with God, I on the other hand feel that it's the right thing to do and that we SHOULD go to church. But we came to an agreement. I didn't have to do something i didn't want to and neither did he.

 

[Quath]

There is no sadness in heaven, so that won't be an issue for her.

That sounds like she would be just in happy in heaven with her husband as without.

If I knew I would spend eternity away from the people I loved, I would be sad. If I were not sad, well, that is not "me" anymore.

And if I seemed upset, yes I was. Not at you or anyone else, but at the whole fact that I don't understand why women stay in marriages that aren't 50/50! I believe that everyone should be happy.

I agree with this sentiment. I think women are just as capable as men and has the same right toward happiness. My wife and I work a full day. So when I get home, I do the dishes and she cooks. I see no reason why she should have to do both when I have just as capable hands to do the chores.

Quath

 

[Nikki]

There is no sadness in heaven, so that won't be an issue for her.

That sounds like she would be just in happy in heaven with her husband as without.

If I knew I would spend eternity away from the people I loved, I would be sad. If I were not sad, well, that is not "me" anymore.

And if I seemed upset, yes I was. Not at you or anyone else, but at the whole fact that I don't understand why women stay in marriages that aren't 50/50! I believe that everyone should be happy.

I agree with this sentiment. I think women are just as capable as men and has the same right toward happiness. My wife and I work a full day. So when I get home, I do the dishes and she cooks. I see no reason why she should have to do both when I have just as capable hands to do the chores.

Quath

On earth, we can say we'd be sad without our spouses and loved ones in heaven. But, I believe that God must erase those memories once we get to heaven because it specifically says there will be no sadness.

You sound a lot like my hubby. He's so helpful. When he sees I'm getting stressed, he'll take the kids to the park so I can "chill". : He helps with the laundry, cooking, dishes, etc. It's teamwork. And that's what it SHOULD be, IMO

 

[lovely]

It is such a shame to see God's beautiful picture of marriage cast into such a low light. However, I found an old article that helps define better than I could what a beautiful marriage, as God has planned it, should look like.

All the things that now encompass the low state of marriage, such as high divorce rates, and adulterous activity, gender neutralization, abuse, is all because we have deviated from God's model. The twisting and perversion of that model has caused men to be chauvinist in true form, and women to be feminist in true form, and has even caused us to turn from the natural functions of our own emotions and bodies. God's picture of Christ and His church has been distorted so that individuals can seek their own happiness...which is not the joy of the Lord...but selfish empty lusts that are justified under the header of individual happiness.

http://www.soundofgrace.com/piper89/6-11-89.htm

It will truly take those who love the Truth, God's people, to deny themselves, and to teach the younger women and men what Scripture says on this matter. Unfortunately, false teachings have infiltrated the church, and no one is willing to share God's truth on this subject for fear of offending those in this politically correct climate. They also must face being shouted down by those who feel that equality means no defined roles. Men are not taking the lead, and are not the spiritual leaders in their own homes, and do not have the hearts of their wives and children. Women are not help meets, and are trampling the authority of their husbands, and are not showing them respect. Children see no true spiritual model or family model, and have no real sense of obedience and respect to authority...to God.

Blessings

 

[Nikki]

How did I cast marriage into a low light? Because I said I'd leave my husband if he was abusive? Because he gives me freedom and I give him freedom? It's not like we're going out and partying. We don't do thing seperately (except the church thing). I don't have a husband that is an alcoholic, drug addict, etc. My husband and I both love God. We respect each other. We play. We laugh. We cuddle.

If my marriage is in a low light, then others must be completely in the dark. I believe that my marriage shines even though it's not perfect. My hubby is sitting right here and he agrees.

 

[lovely]

lovely wrote:

All the things that now encompass the low state of marriage, such as high divorce rates, and adulterous activity, gender neutralization, abuse, is all because we have deviated from God's model. The twisting and perversion of that model has caused men to be chauvinist in true form, and women to be feminist in true form, and has even caused us to turn from the natural functions of our own emotions and bodies. God's picture of Christ and His church has been distorted so that individuals can seek their own happiness...which is not the joy of the Lord...but selfish empty lusts that are justified under the header of individual happiness.

I think I made it clear what I what I felt some of the things were that encompass the low state of marriage in today's world. As with my other posts, Nikki, it was not intended to be about you, or your marriage. I know only of my own marriage. I was specifically referring to God's Word, versus the world, and it's present false teachings.

Blessings.