Bible Study SUICIDE

[Eugene]

Whatever God does with Saul is not up to me. Whatever he does with Judas is not up to me. I would hope that we could all have the desire that none of them will be extinguished and that God can make all things rite. As he says he will.

Why do you think there are two resurrections?.....
the one is for for the elect to reign with Jesus for a thousand years. the second is for the dead to see the kingdom and have one last chance to make the decision to fall before God and allow Jesus to be their savior yet the ones that do not make that final choice will be eliminated.

We do have the resolution of both and both are given in scripture. Saul remained anointed (1 Sam 24:6), and Judas proclaimed as a son of perdition, and lost. (John 17:12).

In that mindset of a second chance all the world would surely bow, but Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Judgment comes from man’s, or Christ’s righteousness. In Christ we are in the book of life, without Him man is judged according to their works out of the books. I don’t see a second chance.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life (That which all Christians are in): and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

[lowrab777]

We do have the resolution of both and both are given in scripture. Saul remained anointed (1 Sam 24:6), and Judas proclaimed as a son of perdition, and lost. (John 17:12).

In that mindset of a second chance all the world would surely bow, but Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Judgment comes from man’s, or Christ’s righteousness. In Christ we are in the book of life, without Him man is judged according to their works out of the books. I don’t see a second chance.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life (That which all Christians are in): and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And of the dead that are raised which are not christians? or never had the chance to hear the gospel? Arent they also there among those people?

 

[lowrab777]

of course I do believe that not everyone will be found in the book of life. And the scripture is clear some are created for destruction. But I cannot tell you suicide removes your name from the book of Life simply because I dont have that information however what Judas did was much worse than suicide alone was it not?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

 

[lowrab777]

I always thought the whole idea was that after the kingdom has been established for a thousand years then it will be revealed to those who get that second chance. And at that point if you see the the marvelous glory of Gods kingdom then you make the choice out of proof not faith, and your reward will be less than that if you had faith to believe. And that is the reason for our striving to be in the first resurrection as counted among the elect. do i have that wrong?

 

[Eugene]

And of the dead that are raised which are not christians? or never had the chance to hear the gospel? Arent they also there among those people?

Hi Brother lowrab777, I appreciate your thoughts here. They are much like my sister in Texas who adhered to Herbert Armstrong’s teaching of the second chance, but there is a difference in those that are dead in Christ, and them that are the dead spiritually. At the beginning of the millennium the spiritual dead are separated and taken away to await judgment. Luke 17:34-37.

You go on to say “And of the dead that are raised which are not christians? or never had the chance to hear the gospel? Aren’t they also there among those people?”

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men.

 

[Eugene]

I always thought the whole idea was that after the kingdom has been established for a thousand years then it will be revealed to those who get that second chance. And at that point if you see the the marvelous glory of Gods kingdom then you make the choice out of proof not faith, and your reward will be less than that if you had faith to believe. And that is the reason for our striving to be in the first resurrection as counted among the elect. do i have that wrong?

The nations will be preached to in the millennium, and at the end of it Satan will be loosed to deceive them.
Rev 2:26. "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:" Matthew 24:13 we read, "He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world." This end is the righteous of the tribulation.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Notice that there will be a camp of the saints on the earth that believed on the Lord Jesus during that time. Where are the remainder of God’s elect? In heaven reigning with Jesus for a thousand years?

 

[for_his_glory]

I always thought the whole idea was that after the kingdom has been established for a thousand years then it will be revealed to those who get that second chance. And at that point if you see the the marvelous glory of Gods kingdom then you make the choice out of proof not faith, and your reward will be less than that if you had faith to believe. And that is the reason for our striving to be in the first resurrection as counted among the elect. do i have that wrong?

First I would not say suicide is a selfish act, but one of a clouded mind not thinking clearly, or at least that was my case when I was contemplating it at one time years ago.

Not to go off topic, but wanted to reply to what you have said in this reply.

There is no mention in scripture about a so called secret quiet rapture or a second chance after the saints of God are caught up to meet Jesus in the air as Jesus will descend with a shout and with the trump of God. This does not sound like it’s going to be a quiet so called rapture does it and every eye will see him and every knee will bow saints and those who choose to reject Jesus. The Holy Spirit dwells in us the believers who through us presents the Gospel of Christ to those who will accept it and isn’t something that just floats around in the air so for this reason when we are taken up so is the Holy Spirit giving no one a second chance because we are sealed by Gods Spirit for Salvation and after the Spirit is taken up no one has a second chance.

1Thessalonians 4:16 for the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

2Corinthians 1:21 Now he which establisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
2Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

 

[lowrab777]

Hi Brother lowrab777, I appreciate your thoughts here. They are much like my sister in Texas who adhered to Herbert Armstrong’s teaching of the second chance, but there is a difference in those that are dead in Christ, and them that are the dead spiritually. At the beginning of the millennium the spiritual dead are separated and taken away to await judgment. Luke 17:34-37.

You go on to say “And of the dead that are raised which are not christians? or never had the chance to hear the gospel? Aren’t they also there among those people?”

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men.

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
I dont take this scripture lightly when it comes to declaring i know who gets their name written in the book of life, Or who gets thrown into the lake of fire.
Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

 

[Gary]

I dont take this scripture lightly when it comes to declaring i know who gets their name written in the book of life, Or who gets thrown into the lake of fire.

What does that mean? That you can tell who's going to heaven and who's not?

.

 

[lowrab777]

What does that mean? That you can tell who's going to heaven and who's not?

.

Can you ? Because I may want too but I know I am guilty of hell.
Joh 8:4 they say unto him, Teacher, this woman hath been taken in adultery, in the very act.
Joh 8:5 Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such: what then sayest thou of her?
Joh 8:6 And this they said, trying him, that they might have whereof to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground.
Joh 8:7 But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Have we become as the pharisees? show me if you can who in the new testament condemned anybody to hell? besides Jesus? and when did Jesus do it?

 

[Gary]

Can you ? Because I may want too but I know I am guilty of hell.
Joh 8:4 they say unto him, Teacher, this woman hath been taken in adultery, in the very act.
Joh 8:5 Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such: what then sayest thou of her?
Joh 8:6 And this they said, trying him, that they might have whereof to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground.
Joh 8:7 But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Have we become as the pharisees? show me if you can who in the new testament condemned anybody to hell? besides Jesus? and when did Jesus do it?

I just asked what this meant.

I dont take this scripture lightly when it comes to declaring i know who gets their name written in the book of life, Or who gets thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[lowrab777]

I just asked what this meant.

I cannot say who goes to heaven or hell personally I do not have the authority nor do I want it because I know I dont deserve to make that choice. but my human nature desires to. However Christ in me tells me not to. So I just cant do it. Nor do I believe any man is approved to do so. Except Gods human son Jesus our Christ and savior.

 

[Kathi]

I cannot say who goes to heaven or hell personally I do not have the authority nor do I want it because I know I dont deserve to make that choice. but my human nature desires to. However Christ in me tells me not to. So I just cant do it.

Well,if someone is an atheist we might have a pretty good idea.

 

[lowrab777]

Well,if someone is an atheist we might have a pretty good idea.

? well how bout that then ? I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

 

[lowrab777]

an atheist will go to hell/death or they are deserving of hell/death?
Rom 1:28 And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
Rom 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.
Rom 2:1 Wherefore thou art without excuse, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judges another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest dost practise the same things.
Rom 2:2 And we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against them that practise such things.
Rom 2:3 And reckonest thou this, O man, who judgest them that practise such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Rom 2:5 but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 who will render to every man according to his works:
Rom 2:7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 but unto them that are factious, and obey not the truth, but obey unrighteousness, shall be wrath and indignation,
Rom 2:9 tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek;
Rom 2:10 but glory and honor and peace to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek:
Rom 2:11 for there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:

 

[Gary]

I cannot say who goes to heaven or hell personally I do not have the authority nor do I want it because I know I dont deserve to make that choice. but my human nature desires to. However Christ in me tells me not to. So I just cant do it. Nor do I believe any man is approved to do so. Except Gods human son Jesus our Christ and savior.

Curiosity quelled. Thank you.
.

 

[Kathi]

an atheist is deserving of hell?

We as believers are really deserving of hell but we have asked Jesus Christ into our lives and we are saved.We will go to heaven.Those who have not asked Jesus Christ into their lives will not go to heaven they will go to hell.It is not God's fault it is a choice that person has made.
John 3:16

 

[Kathi]

As i tried to point out Only God knows Kathi. We could be also be selfish for thinking this. that is true

Well,when they took their life were they are believer in Jesus Christ or were they not?I think that would make a huge difference.

 

[lowrab777]

Is there any hope for those people who do not believe on Jesus now?
Is there any hope for yhose who never had the chance to know Christ?

 

[Kathi]

Is there any hope for those people who do not believe on Jesus now?

The only hope that someone has is if they ask Jesus Christ into their life and repent.That can happen 5 minutes before they die.If they die and they have not done this their is no hope.