Tessa
Member
No, as God's grace is sufficient.
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No, as God's grace is sufficient.
OK.
Water and Spirit baptism are, as you say, two different baptisms.
Jesus said to be baptized in water. (In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.)
That is done by other believers.
Jesus is the baptizer in the Holy Spirit.
Yes?
So should I never tell a Jehovah's Witness that his view of Jesus as a creature is in error?
Or should I not tell a Mormon that his religion is not Christian because it is polytheistic and teaches taht a creature can become divinity through good works just like God the Father did.
Did Paul tell Peter that he was in error?
Did the the Jerusalem council, in deciding that the Gentiles were not required to be circumcised and keep the Law of Moses, not tell the "party of the Pharisees" that they were in error?
Did Jesus not tell the Scribes and Pharisees that they were in error due to their traditions?
Did He not tell the Sadducees that they were in error concerning the resurrection.
When did this notion that Christians were not to declare error to be error arise?
When was it decided that we should tolerate error in order not to offend anyone?
Should we allow a believer to continue in error and acting contrary to the teaching of Christ in order to avoid offending him?
Is inoffensive peace more important than the eternal life for which Christ died and rose from the grave to give us?
(Those are rhetorical questions not directed at you personally)
Yes, we may disagree over minor issues.
But Baptism is not a minor issue. It is a command of Jesus Who is our LORD and God. (Assuming that we actually do try to obey Him)
No, I am not angry but I am close to tears
It is what Jesus commanded.If you are wholly convinced of water baptism, I am not going to hinder that.
amen - this is a very true statementI grew up in a church that I was never told I had to be born again of the Spirit. I was baptized in water cause that is what was taught. Guess what?! I wouldn't have been in eternity without God because of what that church taught. Sorry if I sound a little upset.
dirtfarmer here
It is my belief that there is only one baptism for the believer, Spiritual baptism. It is Spiritual baptism that places us in Christ. With that baptism comes the sealing with the Spirit.
After we are baptized into the body of Christ with the Spirit there are many filling with the Spirit, which is called sanctification. We are sanctified to accomplish things that God wants us to do by the Spirit.
I grew up in a church that I was never told I had to be born again of the Spirit. I was baptized in water cause that is what was taught. Guess what?! I wouldn't have been in eternity without God because of what that church taught. Sorry if I sound a little upset.
I was baptized in water cause that is what was taught. Guess what?! I wouldn't have been in eternity without God because of what that church taught.
When I first read JLB's reply, "Says who?" he said exactly what was going through my mind. How do we know that the thief was never baptized in water? We only know of the his life from the time he appears hung on a cross next to Jesus. We know nothing of his life prior to this moment accept that he was a criminal, likely a thief according to both Matthew and Mark.i think there has been a misunderstanding here
@ezra was talking about the thief on the cross had no chance to be water baptized and yet he was saved/born again/went to heaven because of his faith in Christ as Savior
When it concerns people actually teaching wrong things, turn to Titus and start at verse 10. It reads "rebuke sharply". Of course that is love too, but it's not the "your feelings are paramount" type love. Titus 1:13if one is in complete error yes we are to correct in love Galatians 6;1
When I first read JLB's reply, "Says who?" he said exactly what was going through my mind. How do we know that the thief was never baptized in water? We only know of the his life from the time he appears hung on a cross next to Jesus. We know nothing of his life prior to this moment accept that he was a criminal, likely a thief according to both Matthew and Mark.
One Lord, one faith, one baptism
Can't deny that but it is also possible he was baptized by John in the Jordan and was caught and tried for his crimes sometime during Jesus' 3-year ministry. We just don't know.I could only think the theif was taken out of prison just as Jesus was on the same day so how could he have been baptized in water not knowing who Jesus was until they were hanged at the same time. By the statement the theif said to the other thief that was railing on Jesus I believe he knew God as he asked the other theif do you not fear God. It seems the thief knew God at one time, but strayed away, Luke 23:39-43.
Can't deny that but it is also possible he was baptized by John in the Jordan and was caught and tried for his crimes sometime during Jesus' 3-year ministry. We just don't know.
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7
The full expression of baptism is found in the same way the full expression of God Is found in the Father, Word, and Holy Spirit.
And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:18
JLB
Please explain why the entire Church, from the time described in the book of Acts, has baptized people in water.
What have you discovered that refutes 2000 years of practice?
How is it that you you have come to know better than Peter who baptized the entire household of Cornelius IN WATER after they had been baptized in the Holy Spirit? (Acts 10)
Please explain why Peter was wrong (but YOU are right) to tell the people on the day of Pentecost why they needed to be baptized and that they would receive the gift of the Spirit. (two separate events) (Acts 2)
Please explain how baptizing people in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit has been understood as baptism IN WATER for the past 2000 years but you have discovered it to be false teaching?
Then why does Jesus refer to it as being "born again"?
Jhn 3:3-7
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
How can one be "born again"?
He must be born of water AND spirit.
The exchange is framed by the words "born again."
Tit 3:5b ... according to His mercy He saved us,
through the washing of regeneration
and
renewing of the Holy Spirit,
The "washing of regeneration" is being born again (that's what "regeneration" means ) is WATER BAPTISM.