Bible Study The Bible & Suicide

[Lewis]

Wave of suicides caused by work culture?
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/v...rmann-france-telecom-orange-suicides.cnn.html

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

We go to heaven only by our belief in Jesus Christ as our savior.
We go to hell by our rejection of Christ as our savior.
We cannot know the mind or the heart of a person that commits suicide.

 

[Chopper]

Hey Chop I'm finding this hard to understand. Paul was involved in the murder of Stephen and was forgiven are you suggesting any un-repented sin at death will send a person to hell or only suicide ?

Of course not! The verse is simply saying that the Holy Spirit resides in my body. and Scripture calls my body His temple. If I commit suicide, I destroy the Holy Spirit's Temple. Scripture says "God will destroy me."

 

[Chopper]

and fornication, and adultery and gay sex. so why should bother claiming Christ per you now that im on the same plain as the Pharisees.

1 Corinthians 6

im also redacting this statement with that verse of yours

defiling by fornication is the same as suicide thus unforgivable.

now then i have commited all three of those sins. two of them as a Christian. you are an osaser. im not i don't get that argument. i can be saved despite my defilation of the temple with sex sins but not with murder. people die for aids and that is caught from sex acts that are risky. not all the time but a lot of it.

you cant isolate the one for suicide and ignore the first audience view of the Hebrews temple that existed then and the myriad of jews in how they would take that defilation of the temple(aod actually) and ignore why god judged isreal in the first diaspora for polluting the temple with sex acts. which i have posted here before. paul saying that fornication is the same in nature as that!

Fornication defiles the Holy Spirit's Temple and can be forgiven. Suicide destroys His Temple. The two are not the same.

 

[jasonc]

Fornication defiles the Holy Spirit's Temple and can be forgiven. Suicide destroys His Temple. The two are not the same.

right, so death is worse then say defilation of the temple? god cant cleanse a man from death? hmm so when a soldier kills himself to save others its not a sin? ie he choose to take a grenade that's not self murder? he willingly ended his life to save others.

thus a Christian can do that and not see heaven. defilation of the temple meant death for the Hebrews. that is why they had to purify it. you act if that the brain doesn't function for minutes after the heart stops. it does. I have talked to a cop on this matter and said that the body after the death of the man will still respond to stimulus.ie he shot himself in the head.30 minutes, there is time in that before if cogonisant to repent. ie they jump to repent, but according to you that is unforgivable. show me where jesus said that?

not all that attempted sucide die. some live. I know one personally. shot himself in the head, lived. he lost eye sight from it. so per you he damned forever to hell. why bother taking him to church? he is lost.

 

[for_his_glory]

It repented (having regretted) Judas that he sold out for that of riches and even though he gave the money back he went and hung himself, Matthew 27:3-5, instead of going and asking Jesus to forgive him instead.

Here you have a man that was chosen by Jesus to be a Disciple. He walked and talked to Jesus seeing all his power and authority through signs and wonders. Judas heard his teachings, but truly never took them to heart. Lust of money became his god as he sold out, but then regretted what he had done. In his anguish he committed suicide. Only God knows what was in his heart before he died. I truly think that Judas was separated from God forever as he defiled that temple of God.

Thou shall not kill, but many do and are forgiven when they come to Christ and repent of their sin. I was a Spiritually born again Christian when I was contemplating suicide. I even told God that if things did not change in my life I was going to go through it as in my messed up mind there was nothing that was clear to me as I allowed the things that happened to me consume me. I even went through scriptures looking for what God said about suicide, but never found any except thou shall not kill and not to defile the temple of God. I looked at thou shall not kill as being in killing others, but not myself. I did find my answer in Mark 7:15-23 that it's not what goes into a man that defiles him, but what comes out of him that defiles him. It was in vs. 22 I found the word foolishness that caught my attention.

I was foolish for having these thoughts as they were of things of the past even though they were still fresh in my mind and consumed me. I just wanted to die and be with the Lord. I wanted peace of mind. I just wanted the madness in my mind to end. Now I know that if I had gone through it I would have been separated from God forever as foolishness was in my heart which was defiling this temple of God. Now those who do not have Christ then yes, they will go to Hell. Those who truly have Christ in them, even though they are weak in faith as I was, need to search for answers as God will always show you that of what you need to know. Yes, suicide will send you to hell whether you are a Christian or not.

 

[jasonc]

ok, so when a man ends his life to save his family or others. he is in hell even if he did that to save others? that is still murder. I killed myself to save others.

 

[jasonc]

food for thought

Verse 16

Ye are the temple of God - The apostle resumes here what he had asserted in 1 Corinthians 3:9: Ye are God‘s building. As the whole congregation of Israel were formerly considered as the temple and habitation of God, because God dwelt among them, so here the whole Church of Corinth is called the temple of God, because all genuine believers have the Spirit of God to dwell in them; and Christ has promised to be always in the midst even of two or three who are gathered together in his name. Therefore where God is, there is his temple.


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Verse 17

If any man defile the temple - This clause is not consistently translated. Ει τις τον ναον του Θεου φθειρει, φθερει τουτον ὁ Θεος If any man destroy the temple of God, him will God destroy. The verb is the same in both clauses. If any man injure, corrupt, or destroy the Church of God by false doctrine, God will destroy him - will take away his part out of the book of life. This refers to him who wilfully opposes the truth; the erring, mistaken man shall barely escape; but the obstinate opposer shall be destroyed. The former shall be treated leniently; the latter shall have judgment without mercy.

from adam Clarke at studylight.org.

Verse 18

Flee fornication - Abominate, detest, and escape from every kind of uncleanness. Some sins, or solicitations to sin, may be reasoned with; in the above cases, if you parley you are undone; reason not, but Fly!

Sinneth against his own body - Though sin of every species has a tendency to destroy life, yet none are so mortal as those to which the apostle refers; they strike immediately at the basis of the constitution. By the just judgment of God, all these irregular and sinful connections are married to death. Neither prostitutes, whoremongers, nor unclean persons of any description, can live out half their days. It would be easy to show, and prove also, how the end of these things, even with respect to the body, is death; but I forbear, and shall finish the subject with the words of the prophet: The show of their countenance doth witness against them, and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not; wo unto their soul, for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.


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Verse 19

Your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost - What an astonishing saying is this! As truly as the living God dwelt in the Mosaic tabernacle, and in the temple of Solomon, so truly does the Holy Ghost dwell in the souls of genuine Christians; and as the temple and all its utensils were holy, separated from all common and profane uses, and dedicated alone to the service of God, so the bodies of genuine Christians are holy, and all their members should be employed in the service of God alone.

And ye are not your own? - Ye have no right over yourselves, to dispose either of your body, or any of its members, as you may think proper or lawful; you are bound to God, and to him you are accountable.

 

[Chopper]

right, so death is worse then say defilation of the temple? god cant cleanse a man from death? hmm so when a soldier kills himself to save others its not a sin? ie he choose to take a grenade that's not self murder? he willingly ended his life to save others.

thus a Christian can do that and not see heaven. defilation of the temple meant death for the Hebrews. that is why they had to purify it. you act if that the brain doesn't function for minutes after the heart stops. it does. I have talked to a cop on this matter and said that the body after the death of the man will still respond to stimulus.ie he shot himself in the head.30 minutes, there is time in that before if cogonisant to repent. ie they jump to repent, but according to you that is unforgivable. show me where jesus said that?

not all that attempted sucide die. some live. I know one personally. shot himself in the head, lived. he lost eye sight from it. so per you he damned forever to hell. why bother taking him to church? he is lost.

Jason, I love you Brother, I know that you are having some terrible family issues of which I have been praying that our Lord help you to find a solution and peace. There are some situations that you have mentioned that would not be classified as simple suicide, such as the grenade story, he died to save others.

 

[jasonc]

Jason, I love you Brother, I know that you are having some terrible family issues of which I have been praying that our Lord help you to find a solution and peace. There are some situations that you have mentioned that would not be classified as simple suicide, such as the grenade story, he died to save others.

he killed himself thus the point. the other issue of the man who was on drugs. decided to take his life, lived, and then repented and is blind is he able to be saved? that was clear suicide. he told me he intended to end it. he was on his way to jail and didn't want to go.i haven't heard from him. I know that he moved and did fall away but I wasn't sure if he came back. I know his church and the leader of the group will remember him.

 

[Chopper]

he killed himself thus the point. the other issue of the man who was on drugs. decided to take his life, lived, and then repented and is blind is he able to be saved? that was clear suicide. he told me he intended to end it. he was on his way to jail and didn't want to go.i haven't heard from him. I know that he moved and did fall away but I wasn't sure if he came back. I know his church and the leader of the group will remember him.

Of course he is saved if he repented. The fact that he didn't die, keeps his heavenly journey. Jason, I'm not the Judge, Jehovah our God is. He knows the hearts of all people who consider suicide. It is up to Him where a person will spend eternity. I am simply pointing out a Scriptural mandate for Christians to heed if they are serious about suicide. It appears to me that Christ Jesus warns about despising either the Holy Spirit's functions and His N.T. residing place, the Temple/body of a believer, and a penalty if disregarded.

 

[jasonc]

Of course he is saved if he repented. The fact that he didn't die, keeps his heavenly journey. Jason, I'm not the Judge, Jehovah our God is. He knows the hearts of all people who consider suicide. It is up to Him where a person will spend eternity. I am simply pointing out a Scriptural mandate for Christians to heed if they are serious about suicide. It appears to me that Christ Jesus warns about despising either the Holy Spirit's functions and His N.T. residing place, the Temple/body of a believer, and a penalty if disregarded.

so because it was an attempted murder its not blaspheme? so when a man repents of this act he is salvable even if he dies? like I said brain function doesn't cease that quickly.

 

[for_his_glory]

ok, so when a man ends his life to save his family or others. he is in hell even if he did that to save others? that is still murder. I killed myself to save others.

no, that is sacrifice:
John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

 

[jasonc]

no, that is sacrifice:
John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

uhm, I know men that don't like each other in the service and still would do that. I worked with a man and I would aid him but it wouldn't because I cared for him, just that even some of mine enemies I wouldn't wish some forms of evil upon.

not all soldiers like each other, some hate each other and just learn to cope with them. I had a former agr that I didn't hate but well didn't care for his ways of leadership. so if I died for him, it wouldn't be out of that friendship for him. there was none.
when he retired I didn't join in the party, I refused. I partied (relished) that he was gone.

 

[for_his_glory]

uhm, I know men that don't like each other in the service and still would do that. I worked with a man and I would aid him but it wouldn't because I cared for him, just that even some of mine enemies I wouldn't wish some forms of evil upon.

not all soldiers like each other, some hate each other and just learn to cope with them. I had a former agr that I didn't hate but well didn't care for his ways of leadership. so if I died for him, it wouldn't be out of that friendship for him. there was none.
when he retired I didn't join in the party, I refused. I partied (relished) that he was gone.

Are we not also commanded to love and pray for our enemies. Jesus laid his life down for all of us including those who persecuted him to death

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

 

[jasonc]

that doesn't change what sinners whom don't know Christ. did I say I still do? I stated my feelings. or what are you command me to actually befriend a corrupt nco whole stole from the guard, lied to men about their chances of promotions and was shady? I don't have to like him, and I don't, but I have forgiven him.i know that he also commited adultery with a mans gf while he was overseas.

I have talked to him on fb on the old units page.he is gone from the county. I have let it go.

 

[for_his_glory]

that doesn't change what sinners whom don't know Christ. did I say I still do? I stated my feelings. or what are you command me to actually befriend a corrupt nco whole stole from the guard, lied to men about their chances of promotions and was shady? I don't have to like him, and I don't, but I have forgiven him.i know that he also commited adultery with a mans gf while he was overseas.

I have talked to him on fb on the old units page.he is gone from the county. I have let it go.

I'm just going by what Jesus said to do and what he himself did for all sinners. Are we as a Christian without sin, I think not as I know I fall short at times and sin is sin, none greater than another.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

God found grace in just one that he could have also chosen to destroy, but His love of one has saved many. We may see evil in one for now, but who knows the heart, but only God. Who is to say this man you talk of might just find the Lord someday if he hasn't already. You are right in the sense we do not have to like them because of their actions, but we are commanded to love them and pray for them.

 

[Lewis]

Religious views on suicide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_on_suicide

 

[agua.]

Fornication defiles the Holy Spirit's Temple and can be forgiven. Suicide destroys His Temple. The two are not the same.

Ok Chop so with this line of reasoning if a person murders a Christian, and repents, Yahweh won't destroy them ?

 

[Chopper]

Ok Chop so with this line of reasoning if a person murders a Christian, and repents, Yahweh won't destroy them ?

Technically you're right. The only sin that is not forgiven IMO, is blasphemy (equating the ministry of the Holy Spirit to Satan) of the Holy Spirit and destroying (suicide) the temple ( my body) of the Holy Spirit.

This whole suicide discussion is strictly my opinion of what the Scripture says to me. I would be open to change if there was something wrong with my understanding of the word "destroy". "God will destroy him". Do you have any thoughts on this? It does seem quite harsh to me that's for sure, and as Jason has pointed out that there are wounded warriors who have come home with terrible life long injuries. That's when I say, "I'm not the judge because I can't discern the heart".