Questions. Not traps but questions.
1.
In the parable of the rich man and Lazurus,
Do you have two groups of dead folks? Is one group in faith (with the ability to hear the gospel at Christ's resurrection), and the other group dead to faith and awaiting judgement.
Nope. To understand "all" parables the dissections for understandings must conform to the directions Jesus gave us in Mark 4:13 and the balance of that chapter. In the "directions" we should be able to see that there are 3 parties to every parable. If any of the 3 are missing, then the understanding is void. The parties are God/His Word, mankind (or an individual that all mankind can look to and personally apply) and the devil.
In the parable of the rich man we have Lazarus and an unidentified "rich man." The rich man studies are long studies in their own right, but in the parable that "rich man" remains without a name. Think of "strangers" that Jesus doesn't know. We have the man Lazarus. The other party can ONLY represent a devil to fulfill the party conformance requirement in Mark 4. We'll see the same TWO parties in Matt. 25 for example. The "rich man" and Lazarus are in parable terms, ONE MAN as we would know a man in the flesh. But scripture doesn't see this way.
Scripture sees TWO parties in MAN. See Mark 4:15 and correlate to 1 John 3:8 and 2 Cor. 12:7, Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2,
all identical pictures of two parties in man. And there are many many more citings in the N.T. to confirm this sight. This is HOW scripture sees. The other "invisible" parties, the devils, are relayed in terms of parables and allegories because they can't be seen. We need things to "link them" to, to relate to what is being said. Devils in scriptures are referred to in numerous ways. Tares, thistles, thorns, "the wicked", children of the flesh, sons of belial, etc etc. I could write several pages just on this single topic, of how devils are described in "similitudes." But the bulk of it stems from Mark 4 in lining up understanding parables and getting both parties on the table for understandings.
Are some good dead and some bad dead?
There are two or three basic forms of "dead." There are dead believers who are still alive ala Col. 3:3, Romans 7:11, Romans 8:10. There are dead who are not believers i.e. people who are dead in their trespasses and sins, yet still alive in the flesh. Eph. 2:1, Col. 2:3. And then there are devils, the opposers or "opposites" or "anti" of Christ. If Christ is the "Life" then they are the real "dead."
I Corinthians 15:51 KJV
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Are some of these dead in Christ, and some in Christ but still alive?
Yep.
3.
Matthew 25:46 KJV
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
In 2 Cor. 12:7 IF we can manage to see that in Paul's flesh was "a messenger of Satan" we should be readily able to see that TWO separate fates could apply to Paul and apply to the messenger of Satan. One, Paul, could not be lost. The other, the messenger of Satan can not be saved and will have the resurrection of damnation at the finale for that entity class. This understanding is the only way to conform to the requirements of Matt. 4:4 and Luke 4:4, us living by "every Word" of God. Jesus did mean every Word, even the bad ones.
Think about this scripture that no hypocrite can read and apply the entire statement to themselves:
Luke 13:27
But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are;
depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
The Words
in bold scare believers half to death and they openly reject application to themselves. They will think up every reason in the world to not see themselves as "working iniquity," nevertheless we all sin and sin IS iniquity. But they just can't get it.
But now put yourself in Paul's shoes from 2 Cor. 12:7 and you'll SEE it can apply to Paul, were he alive in the flesh and leave Paul entirely unharmed. No different than Jesus addressing Satan in Peter. There are two different parties standing in the same shoes. If we see our own sin properly we WILL derive that sin is of the devil. This shows the other parties are "involved" with us as well.
This can be a hard pill, a bitter pill to swallow for any blinded flesh man. But it IS Gospel, Word for Word.
So can you select good and bad out of the physical dead?
Out of people who are alive in the flesh, yes. Once a believer dies they are released from our captors we have present with us in our flesh. This is also the reason why the flesh and the Spirit are contrary and against each others. Gal. 5:17. There is no remedy for devils. There is no "getting along" between the flesh and the Spirit. It is impossible because it is about Gods Spirit and devils.
And
Can you choose good and bad out of the living?
I wish I could discuss this topic more as to how this relates to actually being able to love our neighbors as ourselves but alas, in most christian circles this rule of Gods House can not be discussed or applied in reality. I do however apply this standard in my own life to unbelievers. I judge NONE of them unto damnation and believe that the Grace of God CAN save them i.e. I can't rule it out. And I'm in good theological company on this sight from both orthodox theologians and from modern Reform theologians. Not all of them, but there are some smart ones in the bunch who are not stupid enough to step into a place where we don't belong.
4.
Are those in the lake of fire the condemned that have no chance?
There is NO uncertainty that the devil and his messengers are going into the LoF for ever and EVER and that is for eternity. I think of the LoF as a form of "anti" heaven for that entity class.
The complication occurs when Jesus visits Abraham's bosom and changes their status (there are a couple of differing opinions here).
What happened to the rich man was NOT the LoF. If you can manage your way through the above, you'll see that when a believer dies, they are separated from their flesh. The wicked spirit(s) however remain on earth, in a DRY place of torment, seeking to "return" to their house, which is man:
Luke 11:24
When the unclean spirit is gone out of a
man,
he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto
my house whence I came out.
The rich man was actually an unclean spirit. Who did that unclean spirit want? Lazarus. The house from whence he came out of. He wanted back in. But that was not possible. The flesh of Lazarus was dead.
Even Lucifer is described as 'a man.' Devils can be termed "men" or "man" or "son of perdition" because
their "house" is the flesh of MAN.
If you want to, just do not comment.
I am thoroughly delighted to discuss and share scripture understandings. The internet has enabled me to share with some of Gods best and brightest on the planet earth.
You have never fooled me one bit. I consider your depth of understandings to run probably as deep as there is on this forum. Kudos if we can connect on the above. You may have already beaten me to it for all I know. Theology is a LOT of pleasure, if done properly.
