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Who is Mystery Babylon ?

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I asked you first. If you're not willing to answer a direct question with a direct answer, you shouldn't make such asinine claims in the first place! :nono2

If you figure out a way to eliminate John's statement linking sin to the devil, which sin is in thought, word and deed, you just give me a hollah
 
If you figure out a way to eliminate John's statement linking sin to the devil, which sin is in thought, word and deed, you just give me a hollah
So again, you can't defend this statement:

There is no scriptural record of any demon being killed and they were within people of Israel and 'any' person who sinned and 'sins' to this day.
Should I conclude then that because you are as much a sinner as anyone else, you are possessed by demons?

Aren't we all - in your view - possessed by demons, since we are all sinners??? :onfire

Your "friend" in Satan...

Stormcrow

(P.S. Get back to me when you've figured out the difference between being used by Satan and being possessed by one of his minions!)
 
So again, you can't defend this statement:

Where do you get this stuff, 'can't defend.'

The challenge my friend is for you to show one instance of demon death from the text. Otherwise my statement is true.
Should I conclude then that because you are as much a sinner as anyone else, you are possessed by demons?

Possession? How's about a lesson in civil communication?

Evil thoughts do not equate to 'possession.'

Why don't you try 'influence.' It's much less sensational. Sensationalism isn't going to wear with most adults.
Aren't we all - in your view - possessed by demons, since we are all sinners??? :onfire

Your "friend" in Satan...

Hey buddy, just eliminate John the Apostles statement and you you you can be a sensational winna.

Of course you dodged that request as well.

pity...

s
 
According to you, demons possess all sinners. Your words. Not mine. You wrote it. You can't defend it.

It's nonsense. Get over it. :screwloose

Look, John the Apostle stated outright that sin is of the devil.

Now you can do what you want with that statement but it can't be logically eliminated.

And you can also ignore the open fact that these entities were shown to be overlapped with mankind in more places in the Gospel than I care to recount.

Now, where is your accounting for these facts? Do you have an accounting?

Or do you prefer to ignore all those facts and revolve your entire theory in eschatology to the word 'soon?'

?

s
 
As stated prior full preterist views are absurd on these matters. Why? Because they have no accounting for the other parties.

You can deny they still exist, and that of course would be very wrong by the accounts of most believers.

Wow, stay politically correct to appease satan! Not. He's crushed under my feet deary & shovel ready!

Zech13,
1 “In that day a fountain shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for uncleanness.
2 “It shall be in that day,†says the LORD of hosts, “that I will cut off the names of the idols from the land, and they shall no longer be remembered. I will also cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to depart from the land.
[emph. mine]
 
Wow, stay politically correct to appease satan! Not. He's crushed under my feet deary & shovel ready!

Zech13,
1 “In that day a fountain shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for uncleanness.
2 “It shall be in that day,†says the LORD of hosts, “that I will cut off the names of the idols from the land, and they shall no longer be remembered. I will also cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to depart from the land.
[emph. mine]

As if the unclean spirit(s) have departed the earth? lol

Look around you friend. The evidence of internal spiritual corruption is everywhere.

That corruption is caused by the 'god of this world.' Yeah, that would be Satan.

IF you preterist dudes think Jews of the flesh were Satan and devils who were swept from the landscape in 70a.d. please feel free to say so.

Since you see he may still be under your feet, then perhaps he's still around?

Of course 'your sin' would surely not be associated with the devil either, right? Or perhaps 'sin' in your view doesn't even exist?

enjoy!

s
 
Yes, Christ conquered sin & death, which was of the devil.

And I am certain that satan is NOT the God of this world! He is only a memory / of the "influence" of evil. That evil age ended in AD70. There are no more "fallen angels."

He no longer has any dominion. We are perfectly capable of creating our own evil & devils. Satan was judged & thrown into the lake of fire.


Romans 6:12-14 NKJV,

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

 
1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

In the preterist views these spirits no longer exist.

To understand Mystery Babylon one should know that there are such spirits, not of God. They are termed by John as anti-Christ spirits:

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

You can stare at old Jerusalem or any other physical point and never see the operations of the anti-Christ spirit.

Preterism renders these types of statements as currently irrelevant. Their understandings require not only the Words of God in Christ, but the words/teachings of the Apostles to be relegated as done and no longer applicable. Statements such as these from Paul using preterist views must also be eliminated as currently inapplicable:

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

None of the above will or can be viewed by observing a consortium of buildings such as a city or a county or any given group of people.

The issues were, are and remain internal struggles of the heart with EVIL influences. That is the workings of Mystery Babylon within all mankind. Believers are not an exception. The advice of John 'to believers' was and remains to 'try' or 'test' these spirits as there are spirits NOT OF GOD.

John gave us the exact location of Mystery Babylon, put there in his words for any to read and to locate. It's quite easy to see the location:

Revelation 17:
1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

John then pinpoints the exact location, right here:

15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

There is your location of Mystery Babylon. Right there for any to read and see.

Yet many will continue to point to every location BUT the obvious locations.

The location in short is 'the world.'

Believers who point to everything BUT are in fact being sat upon by that Whore and obscuring the location, which is IN THEM.

What did John the Apostle know about 'the world' from the Spirit of God?

1 John 5:19
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

John did not change his tune one bit in Revelation. He showed this fact in Rev. 17 exactly as he showed this fact in 1 John 5:19.

While many will hold up alternative views, the wickedness of Mystery Babylon does not want you looking closer to home.

Gods people are requested to come out of her.

That command remains. In order to come out of her, to DIVIDE AWAY from spiritual wickedness, one should perceive that they are IN same.

The question then becomes one of 'how' that division or coming out carries forth.

When Israel was taken captive to Babylon, upon their coming out the first priority of businessness was the restoration of the Temple. These are figures.

The temple you are to look to today is your own mind and body. That is in fact where 'the Whore' sitteth. Old testament typology of temples are figurative for the real temple(s) which is YOU.

enjoy!

smaller
 
Smaller,

You would label me a perterist. And i disagree with your statement.

Preterism renders these types of statements as currently irrelevant. Their understandings require not only the Words of God in Christ, but the words/teachings of the Apostles to be relegated as done and no longer applicable. Statements such as these from Paul using preterist views must also be eliminated as currently inapplicable:

Please try and remember the preterist label does not fit us all the same. Are all the Christian folks you know the same?

There is a big difference between a "full preterist" ( lehigh) and partial or orthodox preterist.

As stated you would label me a preterist yet i am waiting His glorious return!
 
Smaller,

You would label me a perterist. And i disagree with your statement.

Sorry Reba. Never heard anything from you on the subject matter so no label from me.
Please try and remember the preterist label does not fit us all the same. Are all the Christian folks you know the same?

I can certainly accept some partial preterist positions.
There is a big difference between a "full preterist" ( lehigh) and partial or orthodox preterist.

As stated you would label me a preterist yet i am waiting His glorious return!

Don't recall making any such statements to you Reba. But you do have a batch of full pre's here. Lehigh, Stormcrow, etc.

s
 
yeah, and life is now all sunshine and lollipops

I thought the same years ago, then I read Matt.11:28-30,

28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.â€

View attachment 2115
 
You are correct imnsho!!

It seems to me if one merely uses the simple hermeneutical principle "Scripture interprets Scripture," that this truth rises to the top of all other views. However, the key to me is objectivity.

Respectfully

Adelphos
 
It seems to me if one merely uses the simple hermeneutical principle "Scripture interprets Scripture," that this truth rises to the top of all other views. However, the key to me is objectivity.

Respectfully

Adelphos

Finally! Someone else who "gets it!"
 

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