Who is Mystery Babylon ?

[savedbygrace57]

rev 18:

3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

This is spiritual fornication. Israel of old was known for this 2 chron 21:1

Moreover he made high places in the mountains of Judah and caused the inhabitants of Jerusalem to commit fornication, and compelled Judah thereto.

ezk 16:

3And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.

15But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.

You see, No other City in world History could committ this fornication against God, because none other was in a Covenant relationship before with God.​

 

[sdktlk]

In order to discover HER identity it would probably be needful to examine very closely HER makeup. For, SHE is after all symbolic.

And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: and upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration." (Rev 17:4-6)

What do the Scriptures say these things stand for?

In order to interpret the symbols we have to go, "to the law and to the testimony" (Isa 8:20) as this is the only place where the keys are.

For example purple material is used in the make up of the tabernacle. (Exo 25) It is used in the making of the ephods for the priests. (Exo 28) It also designates royalty as seen when they clothed Jesus in purple and said, "Hail, King of the Jews." (Mar 15:17-18)

By this we see that God uses the color purple to signify the dwelling place (Tabernacle) of God. It points to priestly activity and one that should be of a royal nature.

Just by discovering what God reveals to us about the color purple, we can see that this "woman" points to a place where God should be and has the appearance of one who is of a priestly and royal nature.

Again, the keys to understanding the symbols set forth by the Lord can only be interpreted by the Word of God.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Ya know folks, I am going to be a bit of a person right now with Impacted Coleoptera at the lower digestive sphincter muscle (ICLDSM for short) but you can take my sarcasm with a dose of humor as I actually don't feel angry at the moment, but nevertheless what I say is true and I want to gripe just a little.

I had an end times thread regarding where each biblical nation is today based on a well researched book, and that it was important to understand where each biblical nation is settled today (including Babylon) so that end times prophecy could be understood. I thought we could discuss. Instead, the thread basically degraded into a race debate while I contributed virtually nothing astonished at what I saw and thus the moderator shelved the thread. In all fairness, the fuel for this degradation was from teachings perpetuated by enthusiastic followers from a "Doctor" on TV sitting behind and impressive desk, pridefully calling his critics yo-yo's but obviously does not know diddly-squat about such subjects himself.

So, I'm not going to say any longer who is what. Instead, I'm going to humor myself, sit back and watch when people imagine all sorts of crazy stuff such as Obama or a cult leader like David Koresh is the Antichrist and USA is Babylon "just because it sounds right" or whatever other entertaining material can be dreamed up. In part Babylon means confusion and I'm enjoying the confusing show--- but that's all it is.

 

[Lehigh3]

In order to interpret the symbols we have to go, "to the law and to the testimony" (Isa 8:20) as this is the only place where the keys are.

For example purple material is used in the make up of the tabernacle. (Exo 25) It is used in the making of the ephods for the priests. (Exo 28) It also designates royalty as seen when they clothed Jesus in purple and said, "Hail, King of the Jews." (Mar 15:17-18)

By this we see that God uses the color purple to signify the dwelling place (Tabernacle) of God. It points to priestly activity and one that should be of a royal nature.

Just by discovering what God reveals to us about the color purple, we can see that this "woman" points to a place where God should be and has the appearance of one who is of a priestly and royal nature.

Again, the keys to understanding the symbols set forth by the Lord can only be interpreted by the Word of God.

Ok. So you understood what I posted about the "woman" in Rev.17-18 as being the unbelieving Jews? The colors of the High priest/ I taught you?

Ok. However, word meanings have no meaning if they are out of context.

In Rev.17-18 the "woman" (old covenant Jerusalem) is not seen in a positive light as she 1st was in Leviticus. She would be judged - & Christ would judge her at His coming. The wrath to come- the hour of trial that would come upon the whole land.
Only the remnant would survive to live in the New Jerusalem kingdom of God.

 

[sdktlk]

Ok. So you understood what I posted about the "woman" in Rev.17-18 as being the unbelieving Jews? The colors of the High priest/ I taught you?

Ok. However, word meanings have no meaning if they are out of context.

In Rev.17-18 the "woman" (old covenant Jerusalem) is not seen in a positive light as she 1st was in Leviticus. She would be judged - & Christ would judge her at His coming. The wrath to come- the hour of trial that would come upon the whole land.
Only the remnant would survive to live in the New Jerusalem kingdom of God.

Don't know how you got that from what I said. Guess I'll have to agree with Tim. :help

 

[sdktlk]

In order to interpret the symbols we have to go, "to the law and to the testimony" (Isa 8:20) as this is the only place where the keys are.

For example purple material is used in the make up of the tabernacle. (Exo 25) It is used in the making of the ephods for the priests. (Exo 28) It also designates royalty as seen when they clothed Jesus in purple and said, "Hail, King of the Jews." (Mar 15:17-18)

By this we see that God uses the color purple to signify the dwelling place (Tabernacle) of God. It points to priestly activity and one that should be of a royal nature.

Just by discovering what God reveals to us about the color purple, we can see that this "woman" points to a place where God should be and has the appearance of one who is of a priestly and royal nature.

Again, the keys to understanding the symbols set forth by the Lord can only be interpreted by the Word of God.

Let's go back to interpreting the symbols. We know that the Book of Revelation is symbolic as the Lord Himself sets the stage by saying, "The stars are..." and, "The candlesticks are..." (Rev 1:20) Every word that is written has symbolic significance and needs to be understood in that light.

Through the Scriptures we have discovered what the color purple speaks of or points to and all that spoken of in Revelation can be brought to the light in that same manner.

 

[Stormcrow]

Except for a brief time when Solomon was king,Jerusalem has never been a city that ruled over other kingdoms.

That's not how the text of Revelation 17 reads. Here is the text from Young's Literal Translation:

"and the woman that thou didst see is the great city that is having reign over the kings of the land.' Revelation 17:18 (YLT)
​

"The land" is a metaphor for Israel and Judah, as seen in Jeremiah:

1 Now the word of the Lord came to me saying, 2 "Go and proclaim in the ears of Jerusalem, saying, 'Thus says the Lord, "I remember concerning you the devotion of your youth, The love of your betrothals, Your following after Me in the wilderness, Through a land not sown.

"I brought you into the fruitful land To eat its fruit and its good things. But you came and defiled My land, And My inheritance you made an abomination. Jeremiah 2:1-2, 7 (NASB)
​

 

[Sam21]

You guys can interpret the bible the way that you want to but here is how I do it. FIRST, go for the most literal logical interpretation that is available from the story itself. In other words we do not worry about what woman or purple or land might mean symbolicly, we just accept the story itself. Now if it is absolutely impossible to make sense by this method THEN began to examine what particular things could mean.
The story of Babylon is actually pretty clear without all the symbolizing of what woman,or purple, or land could mean. There was a real actual Babylon in the OT and we know that it was similar to Rome,a city that ruled over other kings of other countries. There were four great empires that ruled over other countries beginning with Babylon and ending with Rome... and none of them were Jerusalem. Unless Jerusalem becomes a city like Babylon and Rome that rules over all the earth then it cannot be Babylon. I believe it is a city that has not yet been recognized and it will be as Babylon and Rome, a city that rules over the other countries of the world.

 

[Stormcrow]

FIRST, go for the most literal logical interpretation that is available from the story itself. In other words we do not worry about what woman or purple or land might mean symbolicly, we just accept the story itself.

Unless Jerusalem becomes a city like Babylon and Rome that rules over all the earth then it cannot be Babylon. I believe it is a city that has not yet been recognized and it will be as Babylon and Rome, a city that rules over the other countries of the world.

Two things:

First of all, in order for your second point (above) to be true, you have to violate your first point (also above), because whatever this "unrecognized city" is, it is clearly symbolized by Babylon!

Therefore, even though you claim we don't need to "symbolize" the woman of Revelation 17, that's exactly what you do to arrive at your "unrecognized city" symbolized by Babylon!

But more importantly, "other countries of the world" is NOT how Rev. 17:18 reads!

Here, again, is the text from Young's Literal Translation:

"and the woman that thou didst see is the great city that is having reign over the kings of the land.' Revelation 17:18 (YLT)
​

Here is a list of verses referring to "the land" in the OT:

Gen. 13:15, Gen. 15:17-18, Gen. 17:18, Gen. 26:3,12,22, Gen. 28:4, 13, Gen.35:12, Ex. 6:4, Lev. 19:29, Lev. 20:2,4,22,24, Lev. 23:10, 39, Lev.25: 2,4,19,23-24, Lev. 26:6.

And there are many, many more (too tired to post them all.)

Getting the picture yet?

"The Land" was all you had to say to a Jew and they would've immediately known what you were talking about: the land given to Abraham as part of the covenant between he and God.

But what did God say would happen if they disobeyed?

14 'But if you do not obey Me and do not carry out all these commandments, 15 if, instead, you reject My statutes, and if your soul abhors My ordinances so as not to carry out all My commandments, and so break My covenant, 16 I, in turn, will do this to you: I will appoint over you a sudden terror, consumption and fever that will waste away the eyes and cause the soul to pine away; also, you will sow your seed uselessly, for your enemies will eat it up.

17 ~'I will set My face against you so that you will be struck down before your enemies; and those who hate you will rule over you, and you will flee when no one is pursuing you.

18 ~'If also after these things you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. 19 ~'I will also break down your pride of power; I will also make your sky like iron and your earth like bronze. 20 ~'Your strength will be spent uselessly, for your land will not yield its produce and the trees of the land will not yield their fruit.

21 'If then, you act with hostility against Me and are unwilling to obey Me, I will increase the plague on you seven times according to your sins.

22 ~'I will let loose among you the beasts of the field, which will bereave you of your children and destroy your cattle and reduce your number so that your roads lie deserted.

23 'And if by these things you are not turned to Me, but act with hostility against Me, 24 then I will act with hostility against you; and I, even I, will strike you seven times for your sins.

25 ~'I will also bring upon you a sword which will execute vengeance for the covenant; and when you gather together into your cities, I will send pestilence among you, so that you shall be delivered into enemy hands. 26 ~'When I break your staff of bread, ten women will bake your bread in one oven, and they will bring back your bread in rationed amounts, so that you will eat and not be satisfied.

27 'Yet if in spite of this you do not obey Me, but act with hostility against Me, 28 then I will act with wrathful hostility against you, and I, even I, will punish you seven times for your sins. 29 ~'Further, you will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters you will eat. 30 ~'I then will destroy your high places, and cut down your incense altars, and heap your remains on the remains of your idols, for My soul shall abhor you.

31 ~'I will lay waste your cities as well and will make your sanctuaries desolate, and I will not smell your soothing aromas. 32 ~'I will make the land desolate so that your enemies who settle in it will be appalled over it. 33 ~'You, however, I will scatter among the nations and will draw out a sword after you, as your land becomes desolate and your cities become waste. 34 'Then the land will enjoy its sabbaths all the days of the desolation, while you are in your enemies' land; then the land will rest and enjoy its sabbaths. 35 ~'All the days of its desolation it will observe the rest which it did not observe on your sabbaths, while you were living on it. Leviticus 26:14-35 (NASB)

​

The "great city" of "the land" was Jerusalem.

 

[Stormcrow]

Ok, I just noticed something in my last post citing Leviticus. See if you see what I do:

I will increase the plague on you seven times according to your sins.

I, will strike you seven times for your sins.

I, will punish you seven times for your sins.

​

See it???

Seven seals, seven trumpets, seven bowls, all brought to bear on the people that said this at Christ's trial:

"His blood shall be on us and on our children!" Matthew 27:25b (NASB)

Coincidence or fulfillment?

 

[sdktlk]

Let's go back to interpreting the symbols. We know that the Book of Revelation is symbolic as the Lord Himself sets the stage by saying, "The stars are..." and, "The candlesticks are..." (Rev 1:20) Every word that is written has symbolic significance and needs to be understood in that light.

Through the Scriptures we have discovered what the color purple speaks of or points to and all that spoken of in Revelation can be brought to the light in that same manner.

I still would suggest that we need to know the picture that is painted by this "woman."

She may indeed be "Jerusalem," but not in the sense we have been led to believe.

We see, "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." (Rev 21:2)

One would think that we need to get our eyes off the earth and into the heavenly's so that we might discover the truth.

 

[Lehigh3]

I still would suggest that we need to know the picture that is painted by this "woman."

She may indeed be "Jerusalem," but not in the sense we have been led to believe.

We see, "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." (Rev 21:2)

One would think that we need to get our eyes off the earth and into the heavenly's so that we might discover the truth.

Most importantly, Mystery Babylon is in Revelation & what HER relationship was according to "the end times" (this IS end times category!)


In Revelation we are shown two women, the harlot and the bride, who are two cities, Mystery Babylon and New Jerusalem. These two women are also two wives. While it is obvious that the bride is a wife (Rev. 21:9) it is easy to miss that the harlot is also a wife, a widowed wife (Rev. 18:7). The harlot (unfaithful Israel, cf. Deut. 31:16-20, Ezek. 16, 23) became a widow when she had her husband (Jesus) killed. She denies this claiming that she is still a queen (cf. Matt. 21:5), that she is still God’s wife (cf. Hosea 2:2-4). The widowed wife (the harlot) is judged and destroyed in Revelation 17-18 and then God marries his new covenant bride in Revelation 19. God told Moses that this would happen to His unfaithful old covenant people

And the LORD said to Moses: 'Behold you will rest with your fathers; and this people will rise and play the harlot with the gods of the foreigners of the land, where they go to be among them, and they will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them. Then My anger shall be aroused against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide My face from them, and they shall be devoured... Deut. 31:16-17
​

There is essentially an exact parallel of two women/cities in Galatians 4 that deserves careful consideration. In Galatians 4:21-31 we are told of two women who are two wives (Hagar and Sarah) who correspond to two cities (physical Jerusalem and heavenly Jerusalem). We are told that these two women/cities are symbolic of two communities of people, those under the old covenant and those under the new covenant.

Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewomen. But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh and he of the freewoman through promise, which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar- for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children- but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all…But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. Galatians 4:21-31 NKJV emphasis added
​

It should be obvious that the “Jerusalem above†of Galatians 4:26 corresponds to the New Jerusalem of Revelation (which comes down out of heaven, Rev. 21:2, 10); but how does Mystery Babylon correspond to Jerusalem? Babylon is called “the great city†in Revelation (Rev. 14:8; 18:21); elsewhere in Revelation we are told that “the great city†is where Jesus was crucified (Rev. 11:8). I invite the reader to do the math: If A equals B (the great city is where Jesus was crucified), and B equals C (Babylon is the great city), then A equals C (Mystery Babylon is the city where Jesus was crucified).
Revelation is talking about the exact same subject as Galatians; both books are contrasting two “cities†(physical Jerusalem and heavenly Jerusalem in Galatians, Mystery Babylon and the New or heavenly Jerusalem in Revelation) that are two “wives†(Hagar and Sarah in Galatians, the widowed harlot and the bride in Revelation). The two women of Galatians and Revelation represent two communities, those of the old and new covenants. Notice that while the city of Jerusalem is mentioned in Galatians, it is representing all those under the old covenant not just the city of Jerusalem (just as I have argued that Babylon the Great doesn’t just represent 1st century Jerusalem but all those of the old covenant who were rejecting Jesus).
In the book of Revelation, as in Galatians (4:29), one women persecutes the other (i.e. the harlot persecutes the bride, Rev. 17:6 cf. Rev. 18:24, Matt. 23:29-37). Similarly in Revelation, as in Galatians, one of the two women is cast out (the harlot is destroyed Rev. 18:21) while the other woman receives her inheritance (the Lord takes the bride as His wife). This explains why the very next subject after Babylon is destroyed is the wedding of the bride (Rev. 19:1-10; cf. Matthew 21:33-45). God has the beast dispose of His unfaithful old covenant wife (who irrevocably broke her covenant of marriage with God and became a widow when she had Jesus killed) and then marries his faithful new covenant bride. Again, the subject of Revelation is exactly the same as Galatians 4:21-31. Both are talking about two women who are two wives and two cities; these things represent the two covenants and those who are part of them (“which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenantsâ Gal. 4:24).

 

[Stormcrow]

Well, then. I guess that's settled!

 

[Alabaster]

Question: "What is the whore of Babylon / mystery Babylon?"

Answer: Revelation 17:1-2 tells us, “Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, ‘Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.’†Revelation 17:5 goes on to say, “And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.†Who is this “whore of Babylon†and what is “mystery Babylon�

Revelation 17:3 gives this description: “Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.†The beast mentioned in this verse is the same beast as in Revelation chapter 13:1, “And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.†The beast in Revelation chapter 13 is understood to refer to the Antichrist, the man of lawlessness (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4; Daniel 9:27). So, the whore of Babylon, whoever it is, is closely affiliated with the end-times Antichrist.

The fact that the whore of Babylon is referred to as a mystery means that we cannot be completely certain as to her identity. The passage does give us some clues, however. Revelation 17:9 explains, “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.†Many commentators link this passage with the Roman Catholic Church because in ancient times, the city of Rome was known as “the city on seven hills†because there are seven prominent hills that surround the city. However, verse 10 goes on to explain that the seven hills represent 7 kings or kingdoms, five of which have fallen, one that is and one that is to come. Therefore, the "whore of Babylon" cannot refer exclusively to Rome. Revelation 17:15 tells us, “Then the angel said to me, ‘The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages.’†The whore of Babylon will have great worldwide influence over people and nations. Verses 10-14 describe a series of eight and then ten kings who affiliate with the beast. The whore of Babylon will at one time have control over these kings (Revelation 17:18), but at some point the kings will turn on her and destroy her (Revelation 17:16).

So, can the mystery of the whore of Babylon be solved? Yes, at least partially. The whore of Babylon is an evil world system, controlled by the Antichrist, during the last days before Jesus’ return. The whore of Babylon also has religious connotations – spiritual adultery with the beast being the focus of an ungodly, end-times religious system.



What is the whore of Babylon / mystery Babylon?

 

[Stormcrow]

The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.†Many commentators link this passage with the Roman Catholic Church because in ancient times, the city of Rome was known as “the city on seven hills†because there are seven prominent hills that surround the city.

​

City of Jerusalem also built in seven hills:

But strange as it may seem, the City of Jerusalem as it existed in the time of Christ Jesus was also reckoned to be the "City of Seven Hills." This fact was well recognized in Jewish circles. In the Pirke de-Rabbi Eliezer, an 8th century midrashic narrative (section 10), the writer mentioned without commentary (showing that the understanding was well known and required no defense) that "Jerusalem is situated on seven hills" (recorded in The Book of Legends, edited by Bialik and Ravnitzky, p. 371, paragraph 111). And, so it was. Those "seven hills" are easy to identify. If one starts with the Mount of Olives just to the east of the main City of Jerusalem (but still reckoned to be located within the environs of Jerusalem), there are three summits to that Mount of Olives:

1. The northern summit (hill) is called Scopus [Hill One],
2. The middle summit (hill) was called Nob [Hill Two],
3. The highest point of Olivet itself, and the southern summit (hill) was called in the Holy Scriptures the "Mount of Corruption" or "Mount of Offence" [Hill Three] (II Kings 23:13).
4. On the middle ridge between the Kedron and the Tyropoeon Valleys there was (formerly) in the south "Mount Zion" [Hill Four] (the original "Mount Zion" and not the later southwest hill that was later called by that name),
5. The "Ophel Mount" [Hill Five],
6. To the north of that the "Rock" around which "Fort Antonia" was built [Hill Six],
7. And finally, there was the southwest hill itself [Hill Seven] that finally became known in the time of Simon the Hasmonean as the new "Mount Zion."

This makes "Seven Hills" in all.


The Seven Hills of Jerusalem

​

The fact that the whore of Babylon is referred to as a mystery means that we cannot be completely certain as to her identity.

Yes we can (as demonstrated by the many fine proofs on display in this thread. )

 

[Hitch]

3And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.


The sign that the Son of Man is in heaven.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Mystery Babylon is a great city ! rev 11:8

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Now in the greek the definite article is used for the great city. What city other than Jerusalem has ever been great to God ? And what city was Christ crucified in ?

also matt 5:35


Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

The Great King,The Great City !​

 

[Alabaster]

Mystery Babylon is a great city ! rev 11:8

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Now in the greek the definite article is used for the great city. What city other than Jerusalem has ever been great to God ? And what city was Christ crucified in ?

also matt 5:35


Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

The Great King,The Great City !​

Jerusalem is not Babylon.

 

[Lehigh3]

Jerusalem is not Babylon. .

Oh yes it is mystery Babylon who rode the beast (Rome) until she rebelled against the beast- then God (who divinely planned for her destruction) had the beast destroy her !
And we showed it with scriptural proof.

Again, from my previous post:
In Revelation we are shown two women, the harlot and the bride, who are two cities, Mystery Babylon and New Jerusalem. These two women are also two wives. While it is obvious that the bride is a wife (Rev. 21:9) it is easy to miss that the harlot is also a wife, a widowed wife (Rev. 18:7). The harlot (unfaithful Israel, cf. Deut. 31:16-20, Ezek. 16, 23) became a widow when she had her husband (Jesus) killed. She denies this claiming that she is still a queen (cf. Matt. 21:5), that she is still God’s wife (cf. Hosea 2:2-4). The widowed wife (the harlot) is judged and destroyed in Revelation 17-18 and then God marries his new covenant bride in Revelation 19.

 

[Stormcrow]

Jerusalem is not Babylon. To believe that would be a great leap into fantasyland.

A few of the proofs I've offered. There are more.

http://www.christianforums.net/f20/who-mystery-babylon-35460/index2.html#post530926


http://www.christianforums.net/f20/who-mystery-babylon-35460/index2.html#post531700


http://www.christianforums.net/f20/who-mystery-babylon-35460/index2.html#post531746


http://www.forerunner.com/beast/X0002_Gentry_-_Beast_of_Re.html


http://www.christianforums.net/f20/abomination-desolation-now-seen-34744/#post530090