Growth Why does God let bad things happen to good people?

[Jim Parker]

Jim,
The very idea screams error. Jesus taught us the poor will always be among us. And when we study any scripture about Heaven, even then we are not all the same. In Heaven (Matthew 22:1-14) we find two major divisions, the Bride and the Guests. It doesn't cease there of course, our rewards (¿positions?) are not even the same. (Matthew 25:14-30)

1. Jesus said the poor will always be with us because we are sinful.

Deu 15:4-5 (NIV) However, there need be no poor people among you, for in the land the LORD your God is giving you to possess as your inheritance, he will richly bless you, if only you fully obey the LORD your God and are careful to follow all these commands I am giving you today.

If we were not sinful then there would be no poor among us. That was my point.


2. There will be only one group in heaven, the Bride of Christ which is the Church. A person is either united to Christ (bride) and has eternal life or he is not united to Christ and will experience the second death. There will be no "2nd class" citizens in the kingdom of God.

Matthew 22:1-14 is not about classes of people in heaven. It is about those who were called by God but refused to come (the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes, and rabbi's who opposed Jesus) and those who were considered undeserving by the religious leaders. (The poor, the blind, the lame, "sinners.") Jesus came to call sinners. He ate with them and welcomed them and that thoroughly irritated the religious leadership.

You go too far to conclude that there are classes in heaven from that passage.It's talking about the fact that God calls everyone to the wedding feast of the Lamb, not just the people who think they are holy and worthy.

Look at the context of the parable; the immediately previous verses:

Mat 21:45-46 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew he was talking about them. They looked for a way to arrest him, but they were afraid of the crowd because the people held that he was a prophet.

Mat 22:1-14 is directed at them so that, if they have "ears to hear," they might repent and believe the gospel.

iakov the fool

 

[th1b.taylor]

1. Jesus said the poor will always be with us because we are sinful.

Deu 15:4-5 (NIV) However, there need be no poor people among you, for in the land the LORD your God is giving you to possess as your inheritance, he will richly bless you, if only you fully obey the LORD your God and are careful to follow all these commands I am giving you today.

If we were not sinful then there would be no poor among us. That was my point.


2. There will be only one group in heaven, the Bride of Christ which is the Church. A person is either united to Christ (bride) and has eternal life or he is not united to Christ and will experience the second death. There will be no "2nd class" citizens in the kingdom of God.

Matthew 22:1-14 is not about classes of people in heaven. It is about those who were called by God but refused to come (the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes, and rabbi's who opposed Jesus) and those who were considered undeserving by the religious leaders. (The poor, the blind, the lame, "sinners.") Jesus came to call sinners. He ate with them and welcomed them and that thoroughly irritated the religious leadership.

You go too far to conclude that there are classes in heaven from that passage.It's talking about the fact that God calls everyone to the wedding feast of the Lamb, not just the people who think they are holy and worthy.

Look at the context of the parable; the immediately previous verses:

Mat 21:45-46 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew he was talking about them. They looked for a way to arrest him, but they were afraid of the crowd because the people held that he was a prophet.

Mat 22:1-14 is directed at them so that, if they have "ears to hear," they might repent and believe the gospel.

iakov the fool

Sorry, but what I have on the Wedding Feast Parable is not the teaching of some teacher, it is from The Teacher and it will stand until and if the LORD corrects it. I cannot accept your answer. And I have, in my life time witnessed quite a few, very, God-like men that were very poor.

You take for instance, Mother Teressa, without any of the man made sainthood, the lady was extremely God-like and one undeniable Saint of God's and yet she was so poor she had nothing. And I'll be perfectly honest, living on a Government paid Veteran's Pension, by American Standards, i am so poor I can't afford a boot to pee in but i tell you the truth, I am as much a saint of God's as Mother Teressa.

And then there is Jesus explaining how difficult it is for a rich man to enter Heaven, the Camel through the Eye Of The Needle, the Gate that never closed. Every time I read that I try to imagine a Camel with a load approaching five, maybe six hundred pounds of freight, on it's knees and the Driver trying to push it through the gate, that way.

You are preaching very close to the Name It And Claim It heresy. Not all saints are meant to be rich saints of God's as Mother Teressa is evidence.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Where are the "good" people? We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. We are all sinners in the hands of an angry God. When we receive mercy, it's not because we're "good," it's because God offers us grace and forgiveness.

The proper and just expectation of man is the evil he deserves. So the real question is, "why do good things happen to us bad people?" There is no goodness in man that he should merit, and somehow expect, good. Good things happening to us is actually the anomaly, not bad things happening to us.

 

[Jim Parker]

Sorry, but what I have on the Wedding Feast Parable is not the teaching of some teacher, it is from The Teacher and it will stand until and if the LORD corrects it. I cannot accept your answer. And I have, in my life time witnessed quite a few, very, God-like men that were very poor.

You have totally missed the point. God said that there would be no poor if the people kept His word. Mankind does NOT keep His word.

You take for instance, Mother Teressa, without any of the man made sainthood, the lady was extremely God-like and one undeniable Saint of God's and yet she was so poor she had nothing. And I'll be perfectly honest, living on a Government paid Veteran's Pension, by American Standards, i am so poor I can't afford a boot to pee in but i tell you the truth, I am as much a saint of God's as Mother Teressa.

Mother Theressa came from a wealthy, upper, middle class family. She willingly set that aside and took a vow of poverty. There are tens of thousands of living saints who take a vow of poverty. Her poverty was self imposed and has nothing to do with God's word that if we kept HIs word there would be no poor among us.

And then there is Jesus explaining how difficult it is for a rich man to enter Heaven, the Camel through the Eye Of The Needle, the Gate that never closed. Every time I read that I try to imagine a Camel with a load approaching five, maybe six hundred pounds of freight, on it's knees and the Driver trying to push it through the gate, that way.

And that, as well, has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that mankind does not keep GOd's word and the result is that some people are fat billionaires living in one of their many mansions while others live on the streets and watch their children starve to death because they have no food and they have no food or shelter because mankind does not keep God's word..

You are preaching very close to the Name It And Claim It heresy. Not all saints are meant to be rich saints of God's as Mother Teressa is evidence.

I never said that God would make anyone rich. I said that God has provided the earth with more than enough for everyone to have what they need to live but, because of the greed of mankind, multitudes are deprived of what they need to live while others get fat and waste what they don't use.

Please read what I write before you decide what I have to say.

Iakov the fool

 

[th1b.taylor]

I read every word you wrote and I extended the various trains of thought that would and will be used on what you wrote and what I said stands and I will always caution young and baby Christians about such teaching. And the fact that Mother Teressa was born to a middle class family is of no import at all, she was poor, willingly or otherwise is of no import, she was poor.

If you go back and read what you quoted you will find I said close to teaching Name It and Claim It.

 

[Tony Hyman]

I believe Romans 8 especially 18-38 spells out why "bad things happen to good people".By good people I assume we are talking about believers.No matter the reasons for God's letting things happen we are assured through faith that "nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."(Rom.8.39) Take Steven for example . just working for Christ "59.While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed...'Lord, do not hold this sin against them' When he had said this, he fell asleep."(N.I.V. Acts7:59-60).He didn't even say "Why Me Lord"?

Still Steven's death sad as it was led to the spreading of The Gospel (Acts 8:3-5)along with the actions of Saul.It was all part of God's plan "all things",cf.Rom 8:29, from a human perspective this might be difficult to grasp.Bold words on my part I do admit when one is not on the receiving end during one's life on this earth.Nevertheless God tests us all in various ways as stated already above.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I believe Romans 8 especially 18-38 spells out why "bad things happen to good people".By good people I assume we are talking about believers.No matter the reasons for God's letting things happen we are assured through faith that "nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."(Rom.8.39) Take Steven for example . just working for Christ "59.While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed...'Lord, do not hold this sin against them' When he had said this, he fell asleep."(N.I.V. Acts7:59-60).He didn't even say "Why Me Lord"?

Still Steven's death sad as it was led to the spreading of The Gospel (Acts 8:3-5)along with the actions of Saul.It was all part of God's plan "all things",cf.Rom 8:29, from a human perspective this might be difficult to grasp.Bold words on my part I do admit when one is not on the receiving end during one's life on this earth.Nevertheless God tests us all in various ways as stated already above.

Tony,
Very well put! If I were not one of God's children I could scream, curse and fight this stupid (in human terms) disease that is killing me and making me pay with pain every minute of every day. But as a child of the King I realize I am now seventy and I was only promised three score and ten any way.

I could suffer my way through this, all alone but I fell His presence every moment of every day and sure as sure can be, He has never given me more than I can handle and there are some that look to me for inspiration. And if a man can inspire others there can be no greater legacy to leave.

 

[Jim Parker]

I read every word you wrote and I extended the various trains of thought that would and will be used on what you wrote and what I said stands and I will always caution young and baby Christians about such teaching. And the fact that Mother Teressa was born to a middle class family is of no import at all, she was poor, willingly or otherwise is of no import, she was poor.

If you go back and read what you quoted you will find I said close to teaching Name It and Claim It.

sigh

 

[Carl Thomas]

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Job is the righteous man both in God’s and human's eyes, why God allows Satan's temptations come to him?

When I began to believe in God, I always complained when some bad things (like working, health of family, etc.)came to me, that how such a thing came upon me, or I should not encounter something like this. After I read the stories of Joseph (was sold into to Egypt to be slave, and became prime minister at the end), of Job (not rejected God in Satan's temptations, and then God blessed more), my views changed. I think they also experienced a lot of bad things, but ultimately God was with them. Gradually I realized that these views were wrong. It is a attitude of suspicion even denial to God. I spent a lot of time on controlling it but failed. A few years later, when I was in some bad environments, I tried to understand God's intention (I thought of that to save mankind, Jesus said a lot, made a lot of work, suffered the humiliation and suffering, and finally went to the cross, to complete his work of redemption). I tried to accept rather than contradict or evade such an environment, and then I saw God's wisdom and wonderfulness. Something is bad in my eyes, but gives me an unexpected 'wealth' in the end and I have more peace of mind, no longer full of struggle, and then my praying become more sincere when there is pain in my heart. I feel that the hands of God stretch me, God heard my prayer, and God have been my side and then I am full of confidence. Like that after Job stand testimony for the LORD, the LORD blessed Job more than before. similarly I have gained a lot from the 'bad' things, it is a kind of comfort from spirit. I think the 'bad' things are expression of God's love, just as the parents disciplining their child is out of love for the child.

 

[brother Paul]

Sorry to Jim and Bill for my $.02 but I think there are qualifiers Jim. First off even though some moderns apply every word of scripture to the church the Scripture shows us a God who is faithful to His covenant. The Deuteronomy passages ONLY apply directly to the members of the Old Covenant (Deut. 5:3)...even Deut. 28. The New Covenant is NOT based on what we do or have done (the Old proving we cannot) but what He does and has done only! None of the Apostles were ever rich and even some great saints suffered illnesses (even the most obedient)

Secondly, I have to say, the Lord enlightened me to the guests "present with the Lord" about 15 years ago....I couldn't believe it at first and then it kept popping up. Perhaps it is people before Christ that had faith or sought to know and please the true God (maybe some are even non-Israelites) and maybe they get to live again on the New Earth, I cannot say, but they are there in Jesus teaching (called in the parable "the poor, the maimed, the lame, or the blind)...maybe the Israelites of Faith that kept their covenant...maybe the people righteous that never heard of Christ...I cannot say who for sure....

But if they are NOT going to be there Jesus would not have said they are. Present with the Lord yet not the bride...

Peace my brothers

Paul

 

[Eugene]

Present with the Lord yet not the bride...

Dear Brother Paul, your realization of this has truth indeed. I won’t go deep into it, but there are different rewards for the children of God depending on their yielding to His leading. We are His work in progress. Eph 2:10.

Rev 4.2 shows the dead in Christ (24 elders), and Rev 4:6 those alive when Jesus comes for us (4 beasts, or living ones)
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

These are also children of God (Rev 7:14)
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude . .
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple

There are yet more. Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. (To being in the bride, yet they are virgins also.)
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

A last illustration might help in Genesis Chapter 24. Abraham (Father) sends his eldest servant Eliezer (Holy Spirit) to find a bride (There were qualifications - Gen 24:13) for His son Isaac (Jesus) from among his own people (All who believe on Christ); he did not take any but Rebekah.
I hope this does not just confuse things for you. Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[brother Paul]

Dear Brother Paul, your realization of this has truth indeed. I won’t go deep into it, but there are different rewards for the children of God depending on their yielding to His leading. We are His work in progress. Eph 2:10.

Rev 4.2 shows the dead in Christ (24 elders), and Rev 4:6 those alive when Jesus comes for us (4 beasts, or living ones)
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

These are also children of God (Rev 7:14)
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude . .
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple

There are yet more. Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. (To being in the bride, yet they are virgins also.)
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

A last illustration might help in Genesis Chapter 24. Abraham (Father) sends his eldest servant Eliezer (Holy Spirit) to find a bride (There were qualifications - Gen 24:13) for His son Isaac (Jesus) from among his own people (All who believe on Christ); he did not take any but Rebekah.
I hope this does not just confuse things for you. Blessings in Christ Jesus.

Doesn't confuse me at all, though these passages SUGGEST they do not define who are the "guests" who are "with the Lord" are present at the marriage of the Lamb, but not "the bride". As for the five unwise virgins, they thought themselves of the bride (in the bridal chamber waiting for His coming), but He NEVER knew them...they were never getting into the marriage feast.

My view of Rev 7 sees three groups....the great uncountable multitude (all the saved gentiles preceeding the Anti-Christ), the 144,000 (possibly symbolic for all saved Israelites), and all the Spirit born believers (Jew or Gentile) that came through the Trib who refused to take the mark (that is the church alive at the time of the A-Cs portion of the Trib)....so are you saying the guests are the saved Israelites from before Christ? Your point just is not clear...

 

[Barth Jones]

Injury is never from God. Every defense against attacks requires various degrees of diligence. We see how the disciples couldn't drive out certain demons because that sort required much prayer (Mark 9:29). We see how Christ's final prayers on earth were cut short because his disciples were so weak in their own capacity to pray (Luke 22:39-48). When we repeat time and again, "why does God let?" we're essentially agreeing that God has failed, when indeed we're the ones sleeping on duty.

 

[Eugene]

are you saying the guests are the saved Israelites from before Christ?

Dear brother Paul, if I've even got it correct, the guests represents them of Israel invited but not born of God. I'll paste a portion of a study I have on parables.

Notes by Gene Hawkins: The Marriage Feast

Jesus spoke the following parable "Then said He into him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many" (Lk. 14:16). Before we continue, it is interesting to note that while Lk. wrote about a "man" giving a supper, Matthew, who presents Christ as the King, said, "The Kingdom of Heaven is like unto a certain king" (Mt. 22:2). Lk. characteristically describes the character as a man who sent "his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready" (Lk. 14:17). "All things which are ready" refer to all the provisions of redemption, and Matthew adds, "my oxen and fatlings are killed."

Those who were invited, immediately began to make excuses, The different attitudes presented by this parable can be found in many hearts today, but here, Jesus is speaking primarily of Israel's attitude of rejecting the provisions of Calvary. The first excuse was: "I have bought a piece of ground and I must needs go and see it" (Lk. 14:18). This refers to Israel who was so occupied with their works that they could in no wise give heed to the opportunity offered them the second one said: "I have bought five yoke of oxen and I go to prove them." The ox is only a type of Christ as the sacrificial servant of God, but Israel was much more occupied with the shadow, or type, than with the Substance who was walking among them. The third one asked to be excused because "I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come" (Lk. 14:20). This represents Israel who was joined to the daughters of religion rather than with Christ. God's order was "to the Jew first and also to the Gentile" (Romans 1:16). Paul followed this pattern in his ministry, as he said on Acts 13:46: "It was necessary that the Word of God should first have been preached to you (Jews), but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles." This parable teaches the same truth.

That servant came and showed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt and the blind" (Lk. 14:21). The Jews were just as needy as the Gentiles described here, but they did not admit it. The conditions seen in this verse show just how depraved all men are in the sight of God. They are poor, or bankrupt, having no righteousness. They are maimed, having been wounded by sin and Satan, and they are halt, unable to walk. in the paths of righteousness. Finally, they are blind, not being able to see the light of God's Word.

All of these people are invited to this great feast purely on the basis of Divine Grace, for there is no way that men can recompense God for such Favor. This is still the message for today, and not only do we receive it into our own lives, but as Jesus has already instructed in (Lk. 14:13), we are to show the same attitude of grace to others. But there is more to this parable. The house is still not full, "And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled" (Lk. 14:23).

This proclamation speaks of the time when the Gospel will be preached to "whosoever will," after the present Church Age is over, The first invitation carried into the city, corresponds with the commission in Mark 16:15, that the Gospel go to every creature. The second one reaches a much wider area to include the highways and hedges. This refers to the Gospel being preached to all nations (Matthew 28:19), and will be accomplished by Israel during the Millennium, when they will become God's worldwide evangelists, after they, as a nation, turn to the Lord.

 

[Jim Parker]

Injury is never from God. Every defense against attacks requires various degrees of diligence. We see how the disciples couldn't drive out certain demons because that sort required much prayer (Mark 9:29). We see how Christ's final prayers on earth were cut short because his disciples were so weak in their own capacity to pray (Luke 22:39-48). When we repeat time and again, "why does God let?" we're essentially agreeing that God has failed, when indeed we're the ones sleeping on duty.

well said

 

[By Grace]

?

There are several possible answers to this question.

1. God is not sufficiently powerful to keep evil away.
2. The evil in this world is so random that it simply strikes everyone.
3. God protects only His elect from evil; if evil comes to you, you are not elect.
4. God is testing your responses so you can see His grace.
5. God allows evil as a retribution because you have some sort of sin in your life. It is called "Christian karma"

The adage remains true, "Ask the wrong question, and you will will always get the wrong answer." The OP is no exception to that rule.

The proper question to ask is, "Why should I get any good things from God at all?"

The first questions assumes that I deserve good things, and that God does not love me if evil comes my way. the second question, which is biblical, is based on the fact that I am a sinner, totally depraved and deserving nothing other than condemnation for my sins against God. That God would grant to me anything good, especially His salvation through His Son is a jaw-dropping act of undeserved mercy and kindness.

Until Jesus returns, the god of this age who rebelled and who hates the one, true God and everything that bears His image will seek to destroy until his doom is realized. Shall we not be targets in that heavenly war, also?

That question in the OP is also wrong because it has an earthly, temporal perspective. If you are a Christian, this world is NOT your home; we are citizens of the New Kingdom, and are merely here for a short time.

For us to expect to have no problems is a false expectation because it makes a liar out of Jesus Christ when He stated, "John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."

If the jesus christ you worship is not sovereign over all the travails we all face, then you are worshiping a false god; an idol of your own creation. If the Jesus Christ you worship is the Creator of the Universe, and all therein, He is also sovereign over the heartaches of this world. The heartaches come because the love and the plans that Jesus Christ has for you as He takes you through those travails due to sinful actions are far greater than the personal hatred for you that ultimate author of your travails has to seek you out, and do you harm.

Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

 

[KevinK]

Where are the "good" people? We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. We are all sinners in the hands of an angry God. When we receive mercy, it's not because we're "good," it's because God offers us grace and forgiveness.

I really like that answer.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jim,
The very idea screams error. Jesus taught us the poor will always be among us. And when we study any scripture about Heaven, even then we are not all the same. In Heaven (Matthew 22:1-14) we find two major divisions, the Bride and the Guests. It doesn't cease there of course, our rewards (¿positions?) are not even the same. (Matthew 25:14-30)

Jesus taught the poor will always be among us but He also said to clothe them.
But we'll never get to a Utopian existence. Because you're right too.
I'll just be reading along.
This is going in the direction of what causes evil.
Or, where does evil come from.
Of course, there is no answer, but reading the replies is interesting.

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

Ooops. By Grace is there already.

Didn't read every page.
I'm so bad at this - but learning!

Wondering

 

[th1b.taylor]

Jesus taught the poor will always be among us but He also said to clothe them.
But we'll never get to a Utopian existence. Because you're right too.
I'll just be reading along.
This is going in the direction of what causes evil.
Or, where does evil come from.
Of course, there is no answer, but reading the replies is interesting.

Wondering

Ummm! I must disagree, the answer to what causes evil is easily answerable but I will not hijack this thread, even though it is old. Begin a thread and send me a PM and I will speak to the issue you raise here.