Who/What Are The Two Witnesses?

[researcher]

Why thank you kindly! We'll see if Jeff agrees...or not.

Lol. Nah. Sorry. I think too much is being read into it. Lol. ;)

Rev 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
Rev 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

1Th 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
1Th 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
1Th 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Who killed Jesus, the prophets, and persecuted the saints? What city?

All of the different interpretations come about because it is too difficult for people to believe that it's over. :| ;)

 

[whirlwind]

Rev 17:6
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
(KJV)

Rev 18:24
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
(KJV)

Matt 23:29-31
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
(KJV)

1Thes 2:14-16
14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
(KJV)


That's another pointer to the "woman" of Rev.17 representing the city of Jerusalem, the earthly Jerusalem of this world!

What part of our Father telling us over and over just who the great city is don't you understand?

 

[whirlwind]

Why thank you kindly! We'll see if Jeff agrees...or not.

Lol. Nah. Sorry. I think too much is being read into it. Lol. ;)

Rev 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
Rev 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

1Th 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
1Th 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
1Th 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Who killed Jesus, the prophets, and persecuted the saints? What city?

All of the different interpretations come about because it is too difficult for people to believe that it's over. :| ;)

Okay...it's all over. Jesus came, Satan is locked away and we are just doing fine. Gotta love this paradise we're in......

The days of vengeance, God's wrath....all over, all in the past. I guess we made it so we can throw those Bibles away now. It sure wasn't like I expected it to be. :gah

 

[veteran]

Ezek 22:1-6
1 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Now, thou son of man, wilt thou judge, wilt thou judge the bloody city? yea, thou shalt shew her all her abominations.
3 Then say thou, Thus saith the Lord GOD, The city sheddeth blood in the midst of it, that her time may come, and maketh idols against herself to defile herself.
4 Thou art become guilty in thy blood that thou hast shed; and hast defiled thyself in thine idols which thou hast made; and thou hast caused thy days to draw near, and art come even unto thy years: therefore have I made thee a reproach unto the heathen, and a mocking to all countries.
5 Those that be near, and those that be far from thee, shall mock thee, which art infamous and much vexed.
6 Behold, the princes of Israel, every one were in thee to their power to shed blood.
(KJV)

God even once called Jerusalem "the bloody city" when it fell to abominations by His people. If another temple is built in today's Jerusalem to start up sacrifices again and Old Covenant worship, which has been planned for some time now, that will be yet another great abomination in Jerusalem's history. It sounds like some Christians are wanting to support that kind of abomination. Don't be a part of it, for that working has nothing to do with Christ Jesus.

 

[whirlwind]

Ezek 22:1-6
1 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Now, thou son of man, wilt thou judge, wilt thou judge the bloody city? yea, thou shalt shew her all her abominations.
3 Then say thou, Thus saith the Lord GOD, The city sheddeth blood in the midst of it, that her time may come, and maketh idols against herself to defile herself.
4 Thou art become guilty in thy blood that thou hast shed; and hast defiled thyself in thine idols which thou hast made; and thou hast caused thy days to draw near, and art come even unto thy years: therefore have I made thee a reproach unto the heathen, and a mocking to all countries.
5 Those that be near, and those that be far from thee, shall mock thee, which art infamous and much vexed.
6 Behold, the princes of Israel, every one were in thee to their power to shed blood.
(KJV)

God even once called Jerusalem "the bloody city" when it fell to abominations by His people. If another temple is built in today's Jerusalem to start up sacrifices again and Old Covenant worship, which has been planned for some time now, that will be yet another great abomination in Jerusalem's history. It sounds like some Christians are wanting to support that kind of abomination. Don't be a part of it, for that working has nothing to do with Christ Jesus.

I agree.

 

[researcher]

Q- Who was Jesus speaking to here:

Mat 23:29-38 (pay real close attention to vs. 37)

Q- Who killed Stephen?

Acts 7:59, Acts 22:20

 

[veteran]

The Rev.13:1 beast kingdom must have a headquarters? Where on earth will that be?

The "one world government" hosts have plans for today's Jerusalem. They've even called today's Jerusalem "The International City of Peace". Lot of those globalists are western Jewish Zionists, and Christian Zionists even. Even one of President Obama's close staff is a dual American-Israeli citizen. Does that mean America is the Babylon harlot? No. Because leaders of Islam have called America the "great Satan", does that make it true? No. Because a group like the European Union has formed, does that make the West the Revelation Babylon harlot? No.

The reality is that the globalists who push the "one world government" working exist all over the earth, in many nations, not just in the West. They have centers of control in many nations, not just in the West. So in final, where will their main headquarters be? Both the orthodox Jews and Islam have preached the coming of the Messiah. Islam is even saying the coming of their messiah (Mahdi?) is very close today. Are the orthodox Jews thinking of Messiah as a person, or as a movement only (some actually do consider Messiah as a religious movement only). What about the Islamic community and their Mahdi? Do they believe that as an entity, a person? Yes. They even mention our Lord Jesus returning with their Mahdi, as a subordinate.

The pointer is, regardless of what the world believes or wants to believe, both of those groups are waiting for the coming of someone, and they're saying it will happen in these last days. It doesn't matter to 'them' whether a Christian believes Christ's second coming was past, or yet future. They intend for someone to be produced for 'them'. The orthodox Jews in essence are still waiting for Messiah's first appearance on earth.

While both of those groups are meant to be deceived by the one they're expecting, we as Christians are not to be deceived in that. That is what the Revelation warnings about the second beast is about. And just where... on earth do the orthodox Jews expect Messiah's coming to them? Where on earth does Islam expect their Mahdi to appear? The answer to both is Jerusalem. And what city on earth do the western Zionists hope and wish for as the center of their world system? Jerusalem. That's why western Zionists have worked so hard starting with the Balfour Declaration to create a lasting peace in Jerusalem. It's so as to bring in their concept of God's Kingdom, in the here and now. That's why they keep making consessions to the Palestinians, because of their peace plan for today's Jerusalem.

What will our Heavenly Father and His Son do with that world system they seek to setup?

 

[researcher]

Okay...it's all over. Jesus came, Satan is locked away and we are just doing fine. Gotta love this paradise we're in......

The days of vengeance, God's wrath....all over, all in the past. I guess we made it so we can throw those Bibles away now. It sure wasn't like I expected it to be. :gah

Lol. Unless new Jerusalem coming out of the sky isn't what we think it will be.

We just don't "remember" the "former" things. :o

 

[Vic C.]

Q- Who was Jesus speaking to here:

Mat 23:29-38 (pay real close attention to vs. 37)

Q- Who killed Stephen?

Acts 7:59, Acts 22:20

Jesus is speaking to the scribes and Pharisees OF ALL TIME. "Pay real close attention" because He is speaking to every generation until this age ends. It hasn't yet happened. :naughty

Those that killed Stephen are types for the ones that will kill those Stephen is a type for.

Oy vey! ... ans some of my peers wonder why I slide farther away from a full futurist position. No offense, but why is it that those who claim to read scripture literally, don't?

[attachment=0:34ow1f4t]pretzel.jpg[/attachment:34ow1f4t]

 

[Vic C.]

All of the different interpretations come about because it is too difficult for people to believe that it's over. :|

Naw, I don't believe it's all over... just most of it. ;)

 

[whirlwind]

[quote="Vic C.":2ms4iey7]Q- Who was Jesus speaking to here:

Mat 23:29-38 (pay real close attention to vs. 37)

Q- Who killed Stephen?

Acts 7:59, Acts 22:20

Jesus is speaking to the scribes and Pharisees OF ALL TIME. "Pay real close attention" because He is speaking to every generation until this age ends. It hasn't yet happened. :naughty

Those that killed Stephen are types for the ones that will kill those Stephen is a type for.

Oy vey! ... ans some of my peers wonder why I slide farther away from a full futurist position. No offense, but why is it that those who claim to read scripture literally, don't?

[attachment=0:2ms4iey7]pretzel.jpg[/attachment:2ms4iey7]

[/quote:2ms4iey7]


Do you think I claim to read scripture literally?

So you're backing away from preterism?

 

[acronyte]

Also as Cornelius mentioned in his post, in the book of revelation concerning the seven churches there are two churches that stand 'without guilt' before god ...the church of Philadelphia and the church of Sardis - these are reference to those in the overall church or people of god living in the world today, that are walking upright with him.....
Its amazing how jesus commends Philadelphia for their commitment to him :

"Write this letter to the angel of the church in Philadelphia. This is the message from the one who is holy and true. He is the one who has the key of David. He opens doors, and no one can shut them; he shuts doors, and no one can open them.

8 "I know all the things you do, and I have opened a door for you that no one can shut. You have little strength, yet you obeyed my word and did not deny me.

9 Look! I will force those who belong to Satan--those liars who say they are Jews but are not--to come and bow down at your feet. They will acknowledge that you are the ones I love.

10 "Because you have obeyed my command to persevere, I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world.

11 Look, I am coming quickly. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take away your crown.

12 All who are victorious will become pillars in the Temple of my God, and they will never have to leave it. And I will write my God's name on them, and they will be citizens in the city of my God--the new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven from my God. And they will have my new name inscribed upon them.

 

[researcher]

All of the different interpretations come about because it is too difficult for people to believe that it's over. :|

Naw, I don't believe it's all over... just most of it. ;)

Lol. I don't know anymore. Most of it over, yeah. I'm open to a surprise ending though. Lol. ;)

 

[researcher]

Oy vey! ... ans some of my peers wonder why I slide farther away from a full futurist position. No offense, but why is it that those who claim to read scripture literally, don't?

[attachment=0:2vfxxgyx]pretzel.jpg[/attachment:2vfxxgyx]

Do you think I claim to read scripture literally?

So you're backing away from preterism?

He's embracing it more and more every day! Soon he will be an elite quasi-preterite! :o

 

[Good News Bob]

The Rev.13:1 beast kingdom must have a headquarters? Where on earth will that be?

The "one world government" hosts have plans for today's Jerusalem. They've even called today's Jerusalem "The International City of Peace". Lot of those globalists are western Jewish Zionists, and Christian Zionists even. Even one of President Obama's close staff is a dual American-Israeli citizen. Does that mean America is the Babylon harlot? No. Because leaders of Islam have called America the "great Satan", does that make it true? No. Because a group like the European Union has formed, does that make the West the Revelation Babylon harlot? No.

The reality is that the globalists who push the "one world government" working exist all over the earth, in many nations, not just in the West. They have centers of control in many nations, not just in the West. So in final, where will their main headquarters be? Both the orthodox Jews and Islam have preached the coming of the Messiah. Islam is even saying the coming of their messiah (Mahdi?) is very close today. Are the orthodox Jews thinking of Messiah as a person, or as a movement only (some actually do consider Messiah as a religious movement only). What about the Islamic community and their Mahdi? Do they believe that as an entity, a person? Yes. They even mention our Lord Jesus returning with their Mahdi, as a subordinate.

The pointer is, regardless of what the world believes or wants to believe, both of those groups are waiting for the coming of someone, and they're saying it will happen in these last days. It doesn't matter to 'them' whether a Christian believes Christ's second coming was past, or yet future. They intend for someone to be produced for 'them'. The orthodox Jews in essence are still waiting for Messiah's first appearance on earth.

While both of those groups are meant to be deceived by the one they're expecting, we as Christians are not to be deceived in that. That is what the Revelation warnings about the second beast is about. And just where... on earth do the orthodox Jews expect Messiah's coming to them? Where on earth does Islam expect their Mahdi to appear? The answer to both is Jerusalem. And what city on earth do the western Zionists hope and wish for as the center of their world system? Jerusalem. That's why western Zionists have worked so hard starting with the Balfour Declaration to create a lasting peace in Jerusalem. It's so as to bring in their concept of God's Kingdom, in the here and now. That's why they keep making consessions to the Palestinians, because of their peace plan for today's Jerusalem.

What will our Heavenly Father and His Son do with that world system they seek to setup?

Whatever happened to the British Empire?