Who/What Are The Two Witnesses?

[veteran]

Here's the OT ensample which the Rev.11:8 verse is pointing to, when it is calling the city where our Lord was crucified as "Sodom and Egypt" in the spiritual sense. This should have been understood before even getting to our Lord's Book of Revelation, but it's obvious very few here have even bothered to read this of how God looks at Jerusalem and His people in a state of false worship...

Isa 1:8-12
8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.
9 Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto Me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
12 When ye come to appear before Me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread My courts?
(KJV)

God is literally calling the rulers of His people there in Jerusalem in a fallen state "ye rulers of Sodom". It's in the spiritual sense because His people has turned to false worship, and that's what the idea of treading His courts is about, bringing false idol worship into it, like the example of Ezekiel 8. That's the kind of idea our Lord Jesus is pointing to when He referred to the place where He was crucified as "Sodom and Egypt" in Rev.11:8.

Jer 23:14-15
14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.
15 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land.
(KJV)

Again, God refers to the fallen state of His people like Sodom and Gomorrah. We're supposed to already know about these spiritual references God gave in the OT about Jerusalem and His people under false worship when we read the Rev.11:8 Scripture, not try to create a whole new meaning of Rev.11:8 that's foreign to God's Word.

Ezek 16:53-54
53 When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters, and the captivity of Samaria and her daughters, then will I bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them:
54 That thou mayest bear thine own shame, and mayest be confounded in all that thou hast done, in that thou art a comfort unto them.
(KJV)

If you know OT history, Samaria was the capitol city of the northern kingdom of Israel of the "house of Israel" after the split, and it turned to false idol worship before God literally removed all of the ten tribes of Israel captive to the land of the Medes. Note what God is calling the house of Judah there at Jerusalem which remained for their later captivity to Babylon. He refers to Jerusalem and the people as "the captivity of Sodom and her daughters". That Ezek.16 chapter is especially about God's working concerning Jerusalem and His people Israel.

Do you think the 1611 KJV translators remembered this from the OT ensamples, and that's why they gave that "great city" rendering in Rev.21:10 to show the difference with endtimes earthly Jerusalem in a fallen state, and then God's redemption of Jerusalem with the Holy Jerusalem being brought down from Heaven to sit there in its place? Yes, the translators obiviously understood that, and I'm almost 99% certain that's why they gave that "great city" reference in the original KJV of Rev.21:10 also. It's so we would not miss the comparison with the previous "great city" Revelation references, and the end of false worship in Jerusalem with the Holy Jerusalem coming out of Heaven to the earth from God.

 

[whirlwind]

You refer to the Revised version? Nestle's numbers has no number assigned for the word 'megas' ('great' -9999 which means an inserted word), but Strong's number's does (megas-3173 and polis-4172 meaning 'great city'). So even with the Interlinear Bible, at minimum the word 'city' is there in the Greek before the phrase "the holy Jerusalem". The Strong's numbers are based on the Textus Receptus. I'm aware the word "great" is left out of some of the Greek manuscripts. But not the word 'city'. The word 'city' is there even in the Greek manuscripts you refer to, before the 'holy Jerusalem' phrase.

Regardless, that still does not support your position that the city reference in the previous Revelation verses from Rev.11:8 through Rev.18:21 is anything other than a literal city.

I don't use "revised" anything. I only use the King James. I agree, and wrote that the word "city" is there. In the text it is....THE HOLY CITY Jerusalem. My point being..."great city" is incorrect. That was the only time Jerusalem was referred to as the great city and that was an error!

Once one abandons the inerrancy of scripture they are opened up and defenseless before all kinds of false doctrine. :verysad
God help you.

Why thank you for your prayers Sinthesis, He is with me and helps me every day.

I so agree with you about the "inerrancy of scripture" and that if one strays from it it opens false doctrine. For that reason I pointed out that the TEXT, the ORIGINAL SCRIPTURE as given by our Father is written as the HOLY CITY JERUSALEM, not the great city Jerusalem as was mistranslated in our Bibles.

 

[whirlwind]

Since the original 1611 KJV does have "great city" there in Rev.21:10, it means you refer to another later version of the King James Bible, like the Revised Standard.

Was the 1611 KJV the original text?

Rev 21:10
teén pólin teén hagían
<START GREEK>th\n <START GREEK> <START GREEK>po/lin <START GREEK>th\n <START GREEK>a(gi/an
<END GREEK>3588 <END GREEK><9999 > <END GREEK>4172 <END GREEK>3588 <END GREEK>40
that great city, the holy Jerusalem
(Interlinear Transliterated Bible. Copyright (c) 1994 by Biblesoft)


And yes, the Revelation Scripture is using Sodom, Egypt, and Babylon to spiritually refer to the earthly Jerusalem of the last days, but not to the Holy City that is still in Heaven with God today. I never said those spiritual terms apply to God's Holy City the new Jerusalem that is in Heaven still today.

We're supposed to see that difference between today's Jerusalem in a spiritual fallen condition for the tribulation timing vs. God's new Jerusalem that will come down to this earth where the earthly Jerusalem is.

None of the previous Revelation Scripture evidence I showed was even addressed. You just passed that like a 'whirlwind' (no pun intended). And further, the "great city" phrase is in the Greek of some of the texts of Rev.21:10, which you also failed to point out.

So let's not try to confuse the matter by inferring I'm saying the "great city" is God's new Jerusalem that comes down out of Heaven, for I never said that, nor implied that.

Nor did I.

So far, you've failed to prove that "great city" reference is NOT about today's earthly Jerusalem.

What part of God telling us what the great city is did you miss? I repeat....

• Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And the angel said unto me, "Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 17:15 And he saith unto me, "The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that GREAT CITY, which reigneth over the kings of the earth."
  
  18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saing, 'Alas, alas, that GREAT CITY BABYLON, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.' 16. And saying, 'Alas, alas, that GREAT CITY, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! 18. And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, 'What city is like unto this GREAT CITY!' 21.And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, "thus with violence shall that GREAT CITY Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 23. And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by they sorceries were all nations deceived.
  
  14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that GREAT CITY, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
  
  16:19 And the GREAT CITY was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and GREAT BABYLON came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.

 

[Cornelius]

The Greek for "great city" in the manuscripts is 'megas polis', the same reference in Rev.21 as it is in the previous Rev. verses.


Rev 21:10
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great (megas) city (polis), the holy (hagios) Jerusalem (Hierousalem), descending out of heaven from God,
(KJV)

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.
So you are saying that the Holy Jerusalem coming out of heaven = Sodom and Egypt.

Interesting.

 

[whirlwind]

Do you think the 1611 KJV translators remembered this from the OT ensamples, and that's why they gave that "great city" rendering in Rev.21:10 to show the difference with endtimes earthly Jerusalem in a fallen state, and then God's redemption of Jerusalem with the Holy Jerusalem being brought down from Heaven to sit there in its place? Yes, the translators obiviously understood that, and I'm almost 99% certain that's why they gave that "great city" reference in the original KJV of Rev.21:10 also. It's so we would not miss the comparison with the previous "great city" Revelation references, and the end of false worship in Jerusalem with the Holy Jerusalem coming out of Heaven to the earth from God.

Was it up to the translators, scribes, to give "their rendering?"

• Mark 12:38 And He said unto them in His doctrine, "Beware of the scribes,.......

 

[veteran]

So, it's quite obvious you all can't tell the difference between today's earthly Jerusalem on earth today, and the new Jerusalem that's to come from God out of Heaven down to this earth. I'm not surprised, since those on the Preterist doctrines can't tell the difference.

God knows the difference between today's earthly Jerusalem and His new Jerusalem that's still in Heaven with Him. One's to be destroyed, and the other will be everlasting. Which one do you think will be everlasting? I'm not surprised you don't know.

Have you come up with a better answer against the 1611 KJV translators of why they put that "great city" reference in the Rev.21:10 Scripture? And yes, that "great city" reference IS there in some of the orginal Greek texts of the New Testament. So your trying to slash out at me is really an attack upon the KJV translators who apparently understood the purpose of that "great city" reference in some Greek manuscripts. (No one has the ORIGINAL Greek New Testament manuscripts, for they've been long lost, for those who might not know. The ones the KJV translators used and those we have today are copies from centuries later).

The usage of "great city" in all the previous Revelation examples is to show how Christ's enemies in the last days will try to setup their own version of God's Kingdom on earth with earthly Jerusalem as the head. Obviously too, you've missed what Satan's original rebellion against God was about, and can't see how it applies in the last days before Christ's coming. Oh, I forgot, many here on this Forum believe Christ's second coming is already past! No doubt those believe today's earthly Jerusalem IS God's new Jerusalem! Those will shocked when they finally discover the difference.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

yes we can tell the differnce but already wore out that line because it was proved that Jesus was not crucified in jerusalem #1 so where the Lord was crucified is not jerusalem.- we proved from scripture that the " great city" either is mystery babylon(false religion all over the earth) or the holy city jerusalem which we all agreed it is not that. so that is #2.- you speak of jerusalem here and how it is spoken of as sodom etc, that is true, but WHY is it spoken of that way? because of the false worship and sin. That is the same reason why mystery babylon the great city all over the world is spoken of as such. itis apostate religion just like physical jerusalem use to be in times of sin and idolatry. The points were proved but you dont agree so to keep going back and forth about that certian issue is pointless really. maybe i will begin to show some types of the two witnesses in scripture soon.

 

[researcher]

it was proved that Jesus was not crucified in jerusalem

Let's look at the verse real quick. Lol. ;) :D

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

John states that the two witnesses will lie "in" the street of that city. Then he says it is also "where" the Lord was crucified. As far as I can tell, he doesn't say "our Lord was crucified inside of that same city," but merely "where."

So, I'm on my patio, at home, typing on my laptop. A friend calls me on my cell phone and says, "hey, where are you right now?" I answer, "I'm at home." Of course, I'm not in my home, but, that's where I'm at. I just happen to be on the patio of my home.

If you're on the front lawn where you live, are you at home, or, in your home? Where are you? You're on your lawn, but, you're still, "at home."

Also, if you look at the two Greek words that the word "where" came from, one of them means "nearly," or "about."
Nearly where our Lord was crucified? About where our Lord was crucified? Good Lord! What on earth did John mean! I'm soooooo confused! ;) :D

Jesus was crucified outside the gates of Jerusalem. Where was he? Jerusalem. If we want to get technical, we would say, "outside the gates.... of Jerusalem." Lol.

But John doesn't say "in," he says where. Where? In the country of Israel, the province of Judea, outside the walls of Jerusalem, i.e. Jerusalem.

OK, so, let's see where Jesus said he had to perish (along with the prophets who preceded him).

Luk 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following:
for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Did any prophet ever perish "out" of Jerusalem? :nod Hmmm. Lol. ;)

 

[whirlwind]

So, it's quite obvious you all can't tell the difference between today's earthly Jerusalem on earth today, and the new Jerusalem that's to come from God out of Heaven down to this earth. I'm not surprised, since those on the Preterist doctrines can't tell the difference.

God knows the difference between today's earthly Jerusalem and His new Jerusalem that's still in Heaven with Him. One's to be destroyed, and the other will be everlasting. Which one do you think will be everlasting? I'm not surprised you don't know.

Okay, let's take a deep breath and be friendly here. If the "preterist" thing was directed my way it was wasted. I'm not a preterist. :yes Secondly, the new Jerusalem isn't in heaven with Him...it walks on earth today. The holy city Jerusalem is us, believers and you are correct...we are everlasting.

Have you come up with a better answer against the 1611 KJV translators of why they put that "great city" reference in the Rev.21:10 Scripture? And yes, that "great city" reference IS there in some of the orginal Greek texts of the New Testament. So your trying to slash out at me is really an attack upon the KJV translators who apparently understood the purpose of that "great city" reference in some Greek manuscripts. (No one has the ORIGINAL Greek New Testament manuscripts, for they've been long lost, for those who might not know. The ones the KJV translators used and those we have today are copies from centuries later).

Slash at you? Attack the translators? Disagreeing with you is not slashing. Naming Jerusalem as the great city was a MISTRANSLATION and is something you need to deal with, or not.

The usage of "great city" in all the previous Revelation examples is to show how Christ's enemies in the last days will try to setup their own version of God's Kingdom on earth with earthly Jerusalem as the head. Obviously too, you've missed what Satan's original rebellion against God was about, and can't see how it applies in the last days before Christ's coming. Oh, I forgot, many here on this Forum believe Christ's second coming is already past! No doubt those believe today's earthly Jerusalem IS God's new Jerusalem! Those will shocked when they finally discover the difference.

The "usage of great city" in that one place where the TRANSLATORS applied it to Jerusalem was their doing...not God's. It appears to me that you are trying to find reasoning for man's error in that particular verse instead of understanding what God tells us.

 

[Vic C.]

researcher, are you really reasoning by using scripture to interpret scripture? :naughty How dare you use such logic!

Looking at this from the view of a possible multiple (dual) fulfillment, it meant Jerusalem in the 1st. century and it will mean Jerusalem in the coming future. :yes

 

[researcher]

researcher, are you really reasoning by using scripture to interpret scripture? :naughty How dare you use such logic!

Looking at this from the view of a possible multiple (dual) fulfillment, it meant Jerusalem in the 1st. century and it will mean Jerusalem in the coming future. :yes

LOL. Yep! Logic! Imagine that! :o ;)

 

[whirlwind]

it was proved that Jesus was not crucified in jerusalem

Let's look at the verse real quick. Lol. ;) :D

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

John states that the two witnesses will lie "in" the street of that city. Then he says it is also "where" the Lord was crucified. As far as I can tell, he doesn't say "our Lord was crucified inside of that same city," but merely "where."

So, I'm on my patio, at home, typing on my laptop. A friend calls me on my cell phone and says, "hey, where are you right now?" I answer, "I'm at home." Of course, I'm not in my home, but, that's where I'm at. I just happen to be on the patio of my home.

If you're on the front lawn where you live, are you at home, or, in your home? Where are you? You're on your lawn, but, you're still, "at home."

Also, if you look at the two Greek words that the word "where" came from, one of them means "nearly," or "about."
Nearly where our Lord was crucified? About where our Lord was crucified? Good Lord! What on earth did John mean! I'm soooooo confused! ;) :D

Jesus was crucified outside the gates of Jerusalem. Where was he? Jerusalem. If we want to get technical, we would say, "outside the gates.... of Jerusalem." Lol.

But John doesn't say "in," he says where. Where? In the country of Israel, the province of Judea, outside the walls of Jerusalem, i.e. Jerusalem.

OK, so, let's see where Jesus said he had to perish (along with the prophets who preceded him).

Luk 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following:
for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Did any prophet ever perish "out" of Jerusalem? :nod Hmmm. Lol. ;)

Jeff....if the great city was Jerusalem why was it not simply written.....and their dead bodies shall lie in the streets of Jerusalem, or of the great city Jerusalem, where our Lord was crucified? More is being said. The great city isn't Jerusalem.

 

[researcher]

it was proved that Jesus was not crucified in jerusalem

Let's look at the verse real quick. Lol. ;) :D

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

John states that the two witnesses will lie "in" the street of that city. Then he says it is also "where" the Lord was crucified. As far as I can tell, he doesn't say "our Lord was crucified inside of that same city," but merely "where."

So, I'm on my patio, at home, typing on my laptop. A friend calls me on my cell phone and says, "hey, where are you right now?" I answer, "I'm at home." Of course, I'm not in my home, but, that's where I'm at. I just happen to be on the patio of my home.

If you're on the front lawn where you live, are you at home, or, in your home? Where are you? You're on your lawn, but, you're still, "at home."

Also, if you look at the two Greek words that the word "where" came from, one of them means "nearly," or "about."
Nearly where our Lord was crucified? About where our Lord was crucified? Good Lord! What on earth did John mean! I'm soooooo confused! ;) :D

Jesus was crucified outside the gates of Jerusalem. Where was he? Jerusalem. If we want to get technical, we would say, "outside the gates.... of Jerusalem." Lol.

But John doesn't say "in," he says where. Where? In the country of Israel, the province of Judea, outside the walls of Jerusalem, i.e. Jerusalem.

OK, so, let's see where Jesus said he had to perish (along with the prophets who preceded him).

Luk 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following:
for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Did any prophet ever perish "out" of Jerusalem? :nod Hmmm. Lol. ;)

Jeff....if the great city was Jerusalem why was it not simply written.....and their dead bodies shall lie in the streets of Jerusalem, or of the great city Jerusalem, where our Lord was crucified? More is being said. The great city isn't Jerusalem.

I don't know. Why doesn't the Bible just say "people" in the verses below instead of trees?

Jdg 9:8 The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them; and they said unto the olive-tree, Reign thou over us.
Jdg 9:9 But the olive-tree said unto them, Should I leave my fatness, wherewith by me they honor God and man, and go to wave to and fro over the trees?

Why do mountains and hills symbolize people and nations, stars - angels, water - people, a lamb - the Lord, a snake - the devil. Why! Why why why. :P ;)
Why o why o why isn't God clearer. LOL. ;) :D

 

[whirlwind]

Jeff....if the great city was Jerusalem why was it not simply written.....and their dead bodies shall lie in the streets of Jerusalem, or of the great city Jerusalem, where our Lord was crucified? More is being said. The great city isn't Jerusalem.

I don't know. Why doesn't the Bible just say "people" in the verses below instead of trees?

Jdg 9:8 The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them; and they said unto the olive-tree, Reign thou over us.
Jdg 9:9 But the olive-tree said unto them, Should I leave my fatness, wherewith by me they honor God and man, and go to wave to and fro over the trees?

Why do mountains and hills symbolize people and nations, stars - angels, water - people, a lamb - the Lord, a snake - the devil. Why! Why why why. :P ;)
Why o why o why isn't God clearer. LOL. ;) :D

Okay, okay, okay....I get your point!

But...the words in that verse are telling us to look deeper. There are many witnesses and they won't be killed in one place, Jerusalem. Rather...they are the holy city Jerusalem being killed in Sodom and Gomorrah...in the great city which is world-wide wickedness. The great city is the woman Mystery Babylon....

• Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
  
  17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth."

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

Okay, okay, okay....I get your point!

But...the words in that verse are telling us to look deeper. There are many witnesses and they won't be killed in one place, Jerusalem. Rather...they are the holy city Jerusalem being killed in Sodom and Gomorrah...in the great city which is world-wide wickedness. The great city is the woman Mystery Babylon....

• Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
  
  17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth."

ww those were perfect verses to show the point!

 

[whirlwind]

Okay, okay, okay....I get your point!

But...the words in that verse are telling us to look deeper. There are many witnesses and they won't be killed in one place, Jerusalem. Rather...they are the holy city Jerusalem being killed in Sodom and Gomorrah...in the great city which is world-wide wickedness. The great city is the woman Mystery Babylon....

• Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
  
  17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth."

ww those were perfect verses to show the point!

Why thank you kindly! We'll see if Jeff agrees...or not. :D

 

[Vic C.]

Q- Who was Jesus speaking to here:

Mat 23:29-38 (pay real close attention to vs. 37)

Q- Who killed Stephen?

Acts 7:59, Acts 22:20

 

[veteran]

Rev 17:6
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
(KJV)

Rev 18:24
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
(KJV)

Matt 23:29-31
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
(KJV)

1Thes 2:14-16
14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
(KJV)


That's another pointer to the "woman" of Rev.17 representing the city of Jerusalem, the earthly Jerusalem of this world!

 

[whirlwind]

Q- Who was Jesus speaking to here:

Mat 23:29-38 (pay real close attention to vs. 37)

Q- Who killed Stephen?

Acts 7:59, Acts 22:20

Jesus is speaking to the scribes and Pharisees OF ALL TIME. "Pay real close attention" because He is speaking to every generation until this age ends. It hasn't yet happened. :naughty

Those that killed Stephen are types for the ones that will kill those Stephen is a type for.

 

[veteran]

That Babylon harlot metaphor in Rev.17 is being used to represent the 'headquarters' of the "tares" in the last days prior to Christ's coming. What does 'headquarters' mean? It means the ruling city over the rest of the ten horned one-world kingdom. Jerusalem is where the "dragon" wants to rule from, not New York, not Rome, not Brussels, not Cairo, and not Moscow. But the "tares" exist in all of those places at the same time to help all power come under control of a false one who is rule from Jerusalem in the last days, the antichrist.