Why Do We Believe What We Believe?

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

For this thread I would like to challenge each person to look inside of their own hearts and consider some of the closely helds beliefs you may have and ask yourself why it is that you believe as you do. Was you believe something that you developed through a vetting process, is there a methodology behind it, and have you ever questioned and tested it out?

I'll start with an example I know a lot of people have personalized and that is King James Bible belief. This is the idea that the KJV is God's AUTHORIZED version and all others somehow pale. Is this belief based in fact or is a misunderstanding of the facts?

Yes the authorized KJV is word of God and an attempt to improve on God's word can lead to all kinds of problems. I am not against other translations............... If we use the KJV we don't have such problems introduced as men attempts to "improve" the word of God.

 

[josefnospam]

I simply don't under stand why you want to attack the Bible that has stood the test of time and is the word of God. Other translations are just That. Other translations. Some ok some Very bad. Use what you like but don't attack the tried and trusted KJV. One reason men make other translations is simply that they don't like what the Bible says and want to change it to something else they believe in.........Just making a new translations and calling it the bible can do grave damage to those who think it is the Holy and inspired word of God. Again Use what you like, I will use the KJV because I like it, and I trust IT IS the inspired Word of God. Again...Use whatever you like, make or supprort any other translation you like or want, but don't attempt to discredit the most widely used and trusted Bible. The KJV was and is the word of God. If you don't believe that, Fine. Believe in what every else you want and use that if it pleases you.

 

[TheBeardedDude]

I simply don't under stand why you want to attack the Bible that has stood the test of time and is the word of God. Other translations are just That. Other translations. Some ok some Very bad. Use what you like but don't attack the tried and trusted KJV. One reason men make other translations is simply that they don't like what the Bible says and want to change it to something else they believe in.........Just making a new translations and calling it the bible can do grave damage to those who think it is the Holy and inspired word of God. Again Use what you like, I will use the KJV because I like it, and I trust IT IS the inspired Word of God. Again...Use whatever you like, make or supprort any other translation you like or want, but don't attempt to discredit the most widely used and trusted Bible. The KJV was and is the word of God. If you don't believe that, Fine. Believe in what every else you want and use that if it pleases you.

But this seems to imply that only one interpretation is the word of god while the others are not. Despite that I am sure many on this forum do not use it as their primary and authoritative text. Does the version you use, have more to do with which one you were first exposed to?

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

The KJV was and is the word of God.

This statement of yours needs some verification before you can through it out and hope to gain unquestioned acceptance. So let me ask you, WHY is it that you feel the KJV is "the Bible" any moreso than The Latin Vulgate, The Douay–Rheims Bible, The NIV, or even the 2001 Translation?

Many, including myself are willing to make the case that the KJV is not any more highly exhaulted than other translations and in fact has more translation errors and private interpolations than most other more accurate translations.
Now, when you say I'm attacking the KJV, please understand that that is no more the case than me attaching Maury. Who's Maury, you ask? Maury is a very tall individual standing at like 6'10". He represents the KJV. You claim Maury is the tallest person in the world, but I say, not so fast my friend. There are 100's of people taller. You respond, not only in denial, but also by accusing me of attacking Maury because I do not concede your point that he's the world's tallest person. Obviously, I have not attacked him, I simply use his height stats and stack them against that other others to see whether your claim adds up, and it DON'T.

 

[Guest]

@TheBeardedDude Who is Jesus Christ to you. What is your belief in who he is. It all comes down to faith, no?

Take a look around the forum, you are surrounded by believers who have come to faith.

Open eyes up. :o

 

[TheBeardedDude]

But would not someone who uses a different version, not also claim their authoritative version to be correct on faith?

Yeshua (his name prior to translation as Jesus, and Christos would have only been applied after his crucifixion) appears to me to have been a Jewish preacher around the time of 30CE. This much seems to be likely based upon historical accounts, but I believe him to have been a man. That is the conclusion I came to when studying religion on my own.

 

[Sinthesis]

It is important to not confuse the Word of God with the medium/channel(translation) in which it is conveyed to us. Every translation is God's message encoded by men, which we must then decode to arrive at the original message. The original message is divine, however every translation is subject to human error in encoding and decoding, not to mention noise from cultural assumptions. People get biblical meanings wrong all the time.

 

[josefnospam]

I trust and believe the KJV is the inspired word of God to us today. You believe what you want.

 

[TheBeardedDude]

It is important to not confuse the Word of God with the medium/channel(translation) in which it is conveyed to us. Every translation is God's message encoded by men, which we must then decode to arrive at the original message. The original message is divine, however every translation is subject to human error in encoding and decoding, not to mention noise from cultural assumptions. People get biblical meanings wrong all the time.

Was the original message not also a translation by man from what they believed he was saying into Hebrew?

 

[Guest]

The men who wrote the Bible were indwelled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[TheBeardedDude]

The men who wrote the Bible were indwelled with the Holy Spirit

But not those who translated it?

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

every translation is subject to human error in encoding and decoding, not to mention noise from cultural assumptions. People get biblical meanings wrong all the time.

Well said.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

I trust and believe the KJV is the inspired word of God to us today. You believe what you want.

Beliefs can have harmful consequences and that is why we would do well to figure out the 'why' behind our beliefs and do our best to make sure that the 'why' is founded upon a firm foundation before we are so quick to run with and embrace a stance. When it comes to subjects like this we must be careful to "harden not our hearts."

 

[Ryan]

God spoke the world into existence using the Hebrew language. It is the building blocks of all creation. God spoke to his prophets in Hebrew, and it was written down in that language. That is a fact. I also believe the NT was written in Hebrew or Aramaic, and then quickly translated into the Greek. So when God spoke to say Moses, he wrote down exactly what God told him.

So if you think of the bible as being like water beginning at the top of the mountain. The water is clear and untampered with any impurities. However, the further you go downstream, it starts to become cloudy and accumulates dirt and debris. Then the further one goes still, it becomes brown, and not near as pure as the water that had started at the beginning of the mountain. Same thing with our languages and translations of the bibles, we are getting the water down at the bottom of the mountain, instead of at the top. Some of us though, see the richness in the Hebrew language and want to return back to the mountaintop. It is a long, slow journey, but God said in Zephaniah 3:9 he was to restore the pure language back to his people. And he has started to do that.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

God spoke the world into existence using the Hebrew language. It is the building blocks of all creation.

Hardly a substantible claim Ryan. The Hebrew language (cough, cough very likely a variant of Aramiac), is supposedly a remnant of the ancient Shemite (Shem, Ham, Japeth) tung which may not even be antideluvian.

 

[Guest]

The men who wrote the Bible were indwelled with the Holy Spirit

But not those who translated it?

It's quite easy to know what translation is false and not of God. Any scripture you're referring too? Beware of false prophets who twist the Word of God.

 

[Guest]

It's not necessarly the translations that are false, rather it's the person reading it and turning it into whatever they want it to say.

 

[Ryan]

God spoke the world into existence using the Hebrew language. It is the building blocks of all creation.

Hardly a substantible claim Ryan. The Hebrew language (cough, cough very likely a variant of Aramiac), is supposedly a remnant of the ancient Shemite (Shem, Ham, Japeth) tung which may not even be antideluvian.

Hebrew was a "dead" and "lost" language one hundred years ago. Now millions speak it and read it. Is it just one big huge gigantic coincidence with the restoration of the land of Israel (which he said would happen), to now Zephaniah 3:9 beginning to be restored? Surprise, surprise God is right again! How many times can this guy be right every single time. I don't know what antdeluvian means, so I will skip it and post this from, albeit a secular Jew, about the Hebrew language.

[video=youtube;od-xkRDw6nk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od-xkRDw6nk[/video]

 

[Deborah13]

Was you believe something that you developed through a vetting process, is there a methodology behind it, and have you ever questioned and tested it out?

I had to take a closer look at Ephesians 2:8-9. There is some disagreement about the gift spoken of in this verse. The question is whether "ye are saved" or 'faith' is the antecedent of the pronoun 'that'. Is the gift, that is "not of works" in v9, salvation or faith?
I believed it was salvation. But frankly, I knew that I had been taught that, or assumed it from reading the scripture.
Yes, I came to a conclusion, by using a method.

 

[Ryan]

This is why I trust a Torah scroll, over the translations of our bibles.

To eliminate any chance of human error, the Talmud enumerates more than 20 factors mandatory for a Torah scroll to be considered “kosher.” This is the Torah’s built-in security system. Should any one of these factors be lacking, it does not possess the sanctity of a Torah scroll, and is not to be used for a public Torah reading.
The meticulous process of hand-copying a scroll takes about 2,000 hours (a full-time job for one year). Throughout the centuries, Jewish scribes have adhered to the following guidelines:

• A Torah Scroll is disqualified if even a single letter is added.
• A Torah Scroll is disqualified if even a single letter is deleted.
• The scribe must be a learned, pious Jew, who has undergone special training and certification.
• All materials (parchment, ink, quill) must conform to strict specifications, and be prepared specifically for the purpose of writing a Torah Scroll.
• The scribe may not write even one letter into a Torah Scroll by heart. Rather, he must have a second, kosher scroll opened before him at all times.
• The scribe must pronounce every word out loud before copying it from the correct text.
• Every letter must have sufficient white space surrounding it. If one letter touched another in any spot, it invalidates the entire scroll.
• If a single letter was so marred that it cannot be read at all, or resembles another letter (whether the defect is in the writing, or is due to a hole, tear or smudge), this invalidates the entire scroll. Each letter must be sufficiently legible so that even an ordinary schoolchild could distinguish it from other, similar letters.
• The scribe must put precise space between words, so that one word will not look like two words, or two words look like one word.
• The scribe must not alter the design of the sections, and must conform to particular line-lengths and paragraph configurations.
• A Torah Scroll in which any mistake has been found cannot be used, and a decision regarding its restoration must be made within 30 days, or it must be buried. (John 1:1-4; John 1:14)

I trust these guys anyday over our translations today.

http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/torahaccuracy/