[_ Old Earth _] A New Found Planet

Lewis

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Newly Discovered Exoplanet With Extreme Seasons Called A 'Real Maverick'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/...sons_n_6672378.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592
n-KEPLER-SPACE-TELESCOPE-large570.jpg
 
“The days of Kepler-432b are numbered,” Mauricio Ortiz, a PhD student at Heidelberg University who led one of the two studies of the planet, said in the statement. “In less than 200 million years, Kepler-432b will be swallowed by its continually expanding host star.”

Thanks Lewis, funny though science always wants to push evolutionary time scales and manmade theories about God's design....why can't we just admire in awe?

Shalom
 
“The days of Kepler-432b are numbered,” Mauricio Ortiz, a PhD student at Heidelberg University who led one of the two studies of the planet, said in the statement. “In less than 200 million years, Kepler-432b will be swallowed by its continually expanding host star.”

Thanks Lewis, funny though science always wants to push evolutionary time scales and manmade theories about God's design....why can't we just admire in awe?

Physics, not biology. We can track how fast fusion is going in main sequence stars. They burn up their hydrogen relatively slowly. Red supergiants (not red giants) burn up in a few tens of millions of years.

Our own Sun will have that fate in about 4.3 billion years. It's about half way through it's lifetime.
 
Physics, not biology. We can track how fast fusion is going in main sequence stars. They burn up their hydrogen relatively slowly. Red supergiants (not red giants) burn up in a few tens of millions of years.

Our own Sun will have that fate in about 4.3 billion years. It's about half way through it's lifetime.
Interesting Barbarian, why do stars like our sun burn hydrogen slowly ? rather than all at once as in a nuclear chain reaction?

Shalom
 
You're thinking of fission. That's when unstable isotopes come apart, and release energy. Different than fusion, when light elements are put under sufficient pressure to push nuclei close enough that the strong force overcomes electromagnetic force, and the nuclei fuse into a new, heavier atom. The reason main sequence stars burn much more slowly than supergiants is simple; the pressure from gravity is less, and this happens less often. So it takes a lot longer to burn through all that hydrogen, ultimately to iron, which when that is done, the energy stops and the star implodes as a supernova.
 
Interesting Barbarian, fusion reactions are different to fission reactions....actually I tend to see them as the same...nobody has simulated fusion have they in a lab ? the temperature and condition for both are the same aren't they ? I like to think the reactions in the sun are so complex that only God knows....

you speak of gravity...some who follow Tesla science say gravity is an electrical magnetic force, but at high temperatures how is this possible ? I don't think we scientists hardly know anything at all....

Shalom
 
Interesting Barbarian, fusion reactions are different to fission reactions....actually I tend to see them as the same...nobody has simulated fusion have they in a lab ? the temperature and condition for both are the same aren't they ? I like to think the reactions in the sun are so complex that only God knows....

you speak of gravity...some who follow Tesla science say gravity is an electrical magnetic force, but at high temperatures how is this possible ? I don't think we scientists hardly know anything at all....

Shalom

you can make fusion reactors at home and they don't last long but it has been done. its not just been sustained. fusion reaction for now take more power then it produces.
 
Yes Jasonc ...however your cite did not show...

View attachment 6088

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor

and
http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-A-Fusion-Reactor/

The picture shows man might be onto something...however we are still no where near the power and knowledge of GOD regarding stars how are powered...the point of my post....

Interesting though...

Shalom
I know that, you were talking about has anyone built a fusion reactor. I addressed that, I didn't address the formation of stars via stellar nucleosynthesis.
 
Sorry Jason, so when people do nuclear fusion at home in a homemade setup, how well does it really approach the same nuclear fusion process we think powers the sun?

Shalom
 
Sorry Jason, so when people do nuclear fusion at home in a homemade setup, how well does it really approach the same nuclear fusion process we think powers the sun?

Shalom
I think most creationist believe that the sun is a fusion reactor. the sun will die out sooner or later. the bible doesn't say that the sun is forever nor doesn't it say that is. so that leaves it room.
 
Jasonc,

I think most creationist believe that the sun is a fusion reactor.

I am a creationist and I do not believe that at all...Scripture says the sun is a symbolic power of GOD...

Ps 84:11 For the LORD God is a sun

It is rather foolish of science to prepose anything of discovery about the sun, its secret powers of anything for that matter, for in doing so you are discovering GOD Himself....the Bible even says GOD is light...

So really the sun will be as complex as biological things...as complex as a city is complex and beyond understanding...beyond mathematics and beyond physics even, even our pathetic understanding of nuclear reactions....we are not even close....


the sun will die out sooner or later. the bible doesn't say that the sun is forever nor doesn't it say that is. so that leaves it room

Ps 89:36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.

Actually Jason according to scripture the shemesh (sun) endures forever, and ever....as the Hebrew word "owlam" implies....

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings;

God is declared the Sun in numerous places, and is a physical symbol of His power and might....

Imagine Jesus coming to save His own as the Sun of righteousness , why when He is just near Orion 5 million light years away, the world of earth will light up so bright, both sides of earth become as noon....and He comes not much closer than that, and everything is nearly killed in the brightness of His coming....we have an awesome GOD !!!!

I would suggest leaving our science as some religious commentary for Scripture , man is really dust and Scripture is it's own science....
May God bless and give your understanding as you study Scripture carefully and bask in It's glory about our GOD we serve.

Shalom
 
It is rather foolish of science to prepose anything of discovery about the sun, its secret powers of anything for that matter, for in doing so you are discovering GOD Himself....the Bible even says GOD is light...

Nature is not God. It's just what He prepared for us to live here. And yes, we have very good understanding of the nature of fusion. There's a lot more to understand, but the first hydrogen bomb was built entirely on theoretical understanding of fusion.

It has to do with the nature of electromagnetic and strong forces. The strong force is much stronger than electromagnetism, but operates only at very, very small distances. If you can compress two nuclei together close enough, the strong force overcomes the repulsion of positive forces in the nuclei, and the two become fused into a single, heavier atom. And a huge amount of energy is released.
 
Your right of course Barbarian, Nature is not God.

But you overlooked my selections of Scripture....they say GOD like the Sun, God is like light...
(Actually Scripture does not use the word "like' , I assume similes are intended, as you do.)

And yes, we have very good understanding of the nature of fusion. There's a lot more to understand, but the first hydrogen bomb was built entirely on theoretical understanding of fusion.

Yes indeed we do understand nuclear reactions well in some cases....

It has to do with the nature of electromagnetic and strong forces. The strong force is much stronger than electromagnetism, but operates only at very, very small distances. If you can compress two nuclei together close enough, the strong force overcomes the repulsion of positive forces in the nuclei, and the two become fused into a single, heavier atom. And a huge amount of energy is released.

I really do admire your faith in science Barbarian, but I do not share it always with you.
Are you sure if we push two nuclei together it releases energy ? How so....E=mc2 is about matter coming apart, releasing energy. Pushing nuclei together should absorb energy? So what grand equation do you propose that says when nuclei come together, it also releases energy ? Truly since we are discussing God and his similes of power, I have to laugh at this, science will never explain this at all....just as science cannot explain where life came from, except that GOD created it perfectly from the beginning.

Science is supposed to reveal God's handiwork and marvel, not reduce God to some naturalistic causation. Shalom
 
I really do admire your faith in science Barbarian, but I do not share it always with you.

If you understand it, you don't need faith. You only need evidence.

Are you sure if we push two nuclei together it releases energy ?

Yep, for any nuclei lighter than Iron-56. Below that mass, the reaction is exothermic, meaning the binding energy of the new nucleus is less than the binding energy of the two original nuclei. That excess energy is released. This is why supergiant stars live until they bind all their nuclei into Iron, after which the fusion suddenly halts (you can fuse heavier elements, but the reaction is endothermic, requiring energy to proceed). At that point, the star implodes, and the resulting massive collapse produces all the elements heavier than iron.

How so....E=mc2 is about matter coming apart, releasing energy.

No, it's about the total amount of energy in matter. The strong force only accounts for part of the energy in matter.

Pushing nuclei together should absorb energy?

Until they pass the point at which the strong force operates, and then suddenly that force overcomes electromagnetic force, and the nuclei fuse. The new nucleus, if the elements are lighter than iron, has a binding energy lower than the two elements combined, and that extra energy is released.

So what grand equation do you propose that says when nuclei come together, it also releases energy ?

The term nuclear binding energy may also refer to the energy balance in processes in which the nucleus splits into fragments composed of more than one nucleon, and in this case the binding energies for the fragments, as compared to the whole, will be higher. If new binding energy is available when light nuclei fuse, or when heavy nuclei split, either of these processes result in releases of the binding energy. This energy, available as nuclear energy, can be used to produce electricity (nuclear power) or as a nuclear weapon. When a large nucleus splits into pieces, excess energy is emitted as photons (gamma rays) and as kinetic energy of a number of different ejected particles (nuclear fission products).


The nuclear binding energies and forces are on the order of a million times greater than the electron binding energies of light atoms like hydrogen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_binding_energy


Truly since we are discussing God and his similes of power, I have to laugh at this, science will never explain this at all....just as science cannot explain where life came from, except that GOD created it perfectly from the beginning.

The binding energies and mechanisms for fusion and fission are rather well understood.

Science is supposed to reveal God's handiwork and marvel, not reduce God to some naturalistic causation.

Science can't say anything at all about God, since it is unable to even discuss the supernatural. It's role is only to understand the physical universe. Fortunately, although science can't comprehend anything about God, scientists can. My understanding of nature, which He created, has enriched my faith in Him. Often, when I am alone in His creation, my understanding of that creation connects with my faith in Him, and that is always a small epiphany for me, one of the most spiritual things I have experienced.
2557956055_71c1061b64_z.jpg

I took this not far from my home.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; his eternal power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable.
 
Jasonc,

I think most creationist believe that the sun is a fusion reactor.

I am a creationist and I do not believe that at all...Scripture says the sun is a symbolic power of GOD...

Ps 84:11 For the LORD God is a sun

It is rather foolish of science to prepose anything of discovery about the sun, its secret powers of anything for that matter, for in doing so you are discovering GOD Himself....the Bible even says GOD is light...

So really the sun will be as complex as biological things...as complex as a city is complex and beyond understanding...beyond mathematics and beyond physics even, even our pathetic understanding of nuclear reactions....we are not even close....


the sun will die out sooner or later. the bible doesn't say that the sun is forever nor doesn't it say that is. so that leaves it room

Ps 89:36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.

Actually Jason according to scripture the shemesh (sun) endures forever, and ever....as the Hebrew word "owlam" implies....

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings;

God is declared the Sun in numerous places, and is a physical symbol of His power and might....

Imagine Jesus coming to save His own as the Sun of righteousness , why when He is just near Orion 5 million light years away, the world of earth will light up so bright, both sides of earth become as noon....and He comes not much closer than that, and everything is nearly killed in the brightness of His coming....we have an awesome GOD !!!!

I would suggest leaving our science as some religious commentary for Scripture , man is really dust and Scripture is it's own science....
May God bless and give your understanding as you study Scripture carefully and bask in It's glory about our GOD we serve.

Shalom
the sun, physically, as most teaches is destroyed. I don't believe that . so its a sin to try to understand the creation? we shouldn't try to figure out how things work? odd if we did that then well stairs which we based on how to move a bicycle wouldn't be around.or that a ton of things. im not big into this stuff but I do think we should study it. its not a sin.
 
"heaven and earth shall pass away, but the words of the lord shall endure forever"

"heaven and and earth shall not pass until every jot and title of the Law be fulfilled" there are two ways of looking at this one from and its usually taken literally. you can take it to mean the temple or as literal. if literal then my position about the sun is as I said. it dies out eventually.
 
Barbarian

That's a beautiful photo, showing the power of God in nature....I thought you believed in evolution, so how does GOD fit into your picture ?

The link does not really explain nuclear fusion process....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_binding_energy

Nuclear binding energy is the energy required to split the nucleus of an atom into its component parts

Splitting a nucleus say Carbon 6 protons and 6 neutrons... to 6 protons and 5 neutrons , the kicked out neutron is lost or broken down ?

Thus, the mass of an atom's nucleus is usually less than the sum of the individual masses of the constituent protons and neutrons when separated

Really ? I thought Carbon has a mass of 12.000000, so science says it's real mass is 11.999999999 ...never heard of that ? How do you measure mass of a proton and a neutron with accuracy to 10 decimals ?

During the splitting of the nucleus, some of the mass of the nucleus (i.e. some nucleons) gets converted into huge amounts of energy (according to Einstein's equation E=mc2) and thus this mass is removed from the total mass of the original particles, and the mass is missing in the resulting nucleus.

Are we taking about C 6p-6n becoming C 6p-5n + n and this releases energy due to reversing nuclear fusion...or does the n decay into sub atomic particles, heat etc, as nuclear fission ? Or don't I understand ?

Electrons and nuclei are kept together by electrostatic attraction (negative attracts positive).

How does Hydrogen (H) have any electrons at 50,000 degrees heat ? It would be without electron's would it not ?

The nuclear fusion process works as follows: five billion years ago, the new Sun formed when gravity pulled together a vast cloud of gas and dust, from which the Earth and other planets also arose.

Well Barbarian I suppose you also believe in Stella evolution of the sun too ?

When this began to happen, protons combined into deuterium and then helium, with some protons changing in the process to neutrons (plus positrons, positive electrons, which combine with electrons and are destroyed). This released nuclear energy now keeps up the high temperature of the Sun's core, and the heat also keeps the gas pressure high, keeping the Sun at its present size, and stopping gravity from compressing it any more. There is now a stable balance between gravity and pressure.

Am I supposed to just believe all this based on faith ? Where's the evidence ?

Unfortunately, no earthly laboratory can match one feature of the solar powerhouse: the great mass of the Sun, whose weight keeps the hot plasma compressed and confines the nuclear furnace to the Sun's core.

So science cannot replicate nuclear fusion into releasing energy as an ongoing process can it ?

What about Tesla ideas of cold fusion experiments ? Why are they ignored ?

Small nuclei that are larger than hydrogen can combine into bigger ones and release energy,


Assumption.
How can man measure mass to 10 decimal places? So if H is pushed together under heat and pressure it releases energy by becoming He ? Has anybody made He from using H in a lab ?

An example that illustrates nuclear binding energy is the nucleus of 12C (Carbon 12), which contains 6 protons and 6 neutrons. The protons are all positively charged and repel each other, but the nuclear force overcomes the repulsion and causes them to stick together. The nuclear force is a close-range force (it is very strongly inversely proportionate to distance), and virtually no effect of this force is observed outside the nucleus. The nuclear force also pulls neutrons together, or neutrons and protons.[6]


Is this story telling with details ? I was told protons are made of sub atomic particles, such as quarks etc....do we know anything about atomic structure at all ? I don't think so....do we know anything about what holds dozens of particles together? not a clue..

  • Fusion, two atomic nuclei fuse together to form a heavier nucleus
  • Fission, the breaking of a heavy nucleus into two (or more rarely three) lighter nuclei
Changing meaning....so what does science call the decay of a neutron to a quark or something less than a proton and neutron releasing energy?

For example, the atomic mass unit (1 u) is defined as 1/12 of the mass of a 12C atom—but the atomic mass of a 1H atom (which is a proton plus electron) is 1.007825 u, so each nucleon in 12C has lost, on average, about 0.8% of its mass in the form of binding energy.


Really interesting but lacks details. 0.8% is a lot....that's 0.096 gram for C6p6n
so C12 does not weigh 12.000 g at all, but 11.096 grams never heard of that before?
All my chemistry mole days was wrong....we assume its 12.0000 for chemistry mole reactions but in physics we know its not...I get it now ? I think ?

For a nucleus with A nucleons, including Z protons and N neutrons, a semi-empirical formula for the binding energy (BE) per nucleon is:


I wish my maths brain could comprehend the formula....

To calculate the binding energy we use the formula Z (mp + me) + N mn - mnuclide where Z denotes the number of protons in the nuclides and N their number of neutrons. We take mp = 938.2723 MeV, me = 0.5110 MeV and mn = 939.5656 MeV

This is weird, is mass related to electric charge ? MeV ? Can we really calculate mass using electric charge ?

I love science too Barbarian, but I would NOT put science into the world of God or explaining anything much about GOD...these just so stories of physics are riddled with assumptions


Shalom
 
Jasonc, I used to teach Science as a teacher to secondary students, for over 11 years, Physics, Chemistry and Junior Science, science does reveal God's work in nature...yes that is a great thing to do....but explaining has limits...and some science people push God out and keep pushing naturalism.... really do we know everything about God's creation ?

For example, a photon is massless, yet travels as energy and according to E=Mc2 it should have mass....they avoid this problem to over come mass and speeds at light ...
it's convenient to formulate we do not know everything about anything....

God is a simile of light, so I suspect understanding light is impossible...

Stuff like that....

Ps 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Let's face it, science will never fully understand anything about God's work of his hands...and it reaches a point where natural laws cannot describe...

Shalom
 
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