Using The Bible As A Dictionary

[Edward]

I've noticed that it seems like a good portion of my Christian brothers and sisters will read the bible, and then go to a dictionary to "see what it means"...

Is this right? I think not. How can we go to a work of man to understand God? Isn't the Holy Spirit supposed to bring us understanding Himself, through the Word of God or spiritual revelation? God is a Spirit, the Holy Spirit is a spirit. We are to worship Him in Spirit and in truth, and to live for the Spirit....so why even involve man's dictionary to understand?

We're to search the scriptures daily, and walk in the spirit. These things of God are spiritual and are spiritually discerned. So we are to pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit before we read His Word, and then open our hearts spiritually so that the Holy Spirit will give illumination. The Bible is it's own dictionary. Use the Bible as a dictionary, Brothers and Sisters. The definition is on page Holy Spirit.

Yes? No?

 

[Deborah13]

I've noticed that it seems like a good portion of my Christian brothers and sisters will read the bible, and then go to a dictionary to "see what it means"...

I know you love to read and you read a lot. If you are reading something and you aren't sure you have a clear understanding of a word, I believe you would look it up in a dictionary, not skip over it or just guess.

When we read the Bible it's a bit more difficult seeing it was translated from other languages. So first we see what that word meant in that language, in that time period. Well then that definition is in English. If there is a word in English that one may not have a clear understanding of what that word means in English, they must use an English dictionary. Even then we may not understand because our Bible translation may be in Old English and the word used does not mean the same thing today. ie. replenish

We can get into trouble thinking that we always know because we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. God never said, don't use the intellect that I gave you, He said believe my words.

 

[Free]

I've noticed that it seems like a good portion of my Christian brothers and sisters will read the bible, and then go to a dictionary to "see what it means"...

Is this right? I think not. How can we go to a work of man to understand God? Isn't the Holy Spirit supposed to bring us understanding Himself, through the Word of God or spiritual revelation? God is a Spirit, the Holy Spirit is a spirit. We are to worship Him in Spirit and in truth, and to live for the Spirit....so why even involve man's dictionary to understand?

We're to search the scriptures daily, and walk in the spirit. These things of God are spiritual and are spiritually discerned. So we are to pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit before we read His Word, and then open our hearts spiritually so that the Holy Spirit will give illumination. The Bible is it's own dictionary. Use the Bible as a dictionary, Brothers and Sisters. The definition is on page Holy Spirit.

Yes? No?

No. That is not how it works. The Holy Spirit illuminates and can bring an understanding of a passage but since the Bible is the written revelation of God to man, purposely written in human languages with words that have meanings, we are to use lexicons and such in our study to gain understanding--study to show yourself approved. If the Holy Spirit re-revealed what everything meant, there would be no need for Scripture.

The main problem with believing that we don't need "works of man" and only the Holy Spirit--as many have and do claim in these forums--is that personal interpretation rules, which makes rational discussion about Scripture pointless. As I have pointed out many times in these forums, every single user here who has claimed we only need the Holy Spirit, has disagreed with all the others who claimed the same. And that just simply cannot be the case.

 

[jasonc]

I know you love to read and you read a lot. If you are reading something and you aren't sure you have a clear understanding of a word, I believe you would look it up in a dictionary, not skip over it or just guess.

When we read the Bible it's a bit more difficult seeing it was translated from other languages. So first we see what that word meant in that language, in that time period. Well then that definition is in English. If there is a word in English that one may not have a clear understanding of what that word means in English, they must use an English dictionary. Even then we may not understand because our Bible translation may be in Old English and the word used does not mean the same thing today. ie. replenish

We can get into trouble thinking that we always know because we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. God never said, don't use the intellect that I gave you, He said believe my words.

languages are more then dictionary, it helps to know the usage(most common) of the words. some words have been used by Christians and redefined to mean that for them only. ie agapao, baptizmo, hades, sheol,

 

[Edward]

I know you love to read and you read a lot. If you are reading something and you aren't sure you have a clear understanding of a word, I believe you would look it up in a dictionary, not skip over it or just guess.

When we read the Bible it's a bit more difficult seeing it was translated from other languages. So first we see what that word meant in that language, in that time period. Well then that definition is in English. If there is a word in English that one may not have a clear understanding of what that word means in English, they must use an English dictionary. Even then we may not understand because our Bible translation may be in Old English and the word used does not mean the same thing today. ie. replenish

We can get into trouble thinking that we always know because we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. God never said, don't use the intellect that I gave you, He said believe my words.

I agree Sister. But there's something about what you said...I can't put my finger on it right now. I need to ponder what you said a bit to let it sink in...

 

[Northman]

I've noticed that it seems like a good portion of my Christian brothers and sisters will read the bible, and then go to a dictionary to "see what it means"...

Is this right? I think not.

I think this is a fantastic topic, Edward. Definitions do change over time for sure, but I myself am not convinced that they should. It all contributes to confusion. Now I am in no way speaking against the work of the saints that came before us, as mentioned by Deb and to do with translations and whatnot.

The simplest and plainest example that I can think of is the very word "pride". Now in our (english speaking)western societies there is a part to the definition of pride that is actually something good, and this is a healthy sense of accomplishment. This shouldnt be there IMO, but because the world works how it works, it is. The bible clearly states pride is nothing but bad. Somehow, over time, even the brethren have given in to such things.

Most words arent like this of course and as you already know, the Spirit will guide on these matters if willing.

 

[dianegcook]

Well, I notice that some dictionary or concordances have different meanings.

For example the word anti.
The Strong's say it can mean also instead of , substitution.
Greek #473

Though one must use the spirit to guide them to decide which meaning is right with that verse.

 

[Free]

Well, I notice that some dictionary or concordances have different meanings.

For example the word anti.
The Strong's say it can mean also instead of , substitution.
Greek #473

Though one must use the spirit to guide them to decide which meaning is right with that verse.

Most words have more than one meaning and it is the context which determines which one is used.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Well...scripture does define scripture, yeah. But understanding the meaning of words is important in knowing how to use and interpret them, y'know? I'm always looking up words to be sure I'm using or understand them right, in general.
Though it's important to keep in mind that words and their definitions do change over time, and some translations of the Bible use some outdated language, meaning some of the words will hold outdated meanings. The words in the KJV often meant something different a long time ago than what they mean now--this has lead to some misconceptions on Bible studies, at least in the church I grew up in. Nothing comes to mind, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't anything major. Still.

Though if you want to be absolutely sure, it's probably better to look up definitions from the words in the original language if you can.

 

[Corn Pop]

Yea. Using a dictionary will just complicate things even more as many words have multiple meanings in many languages. How one language can be correctly translated through text is beyond me. Must be reason why there are hundreds of bible translations. I mean they correct just in wrong context. I dont think modern hebrew can fully understand ancient hebrew

 

[eddif]

Romans 1:19
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Understanding God:
1 By the spoken Word ( Adam and Eve, etc)
2 By the written Word
3 By the Word become flesh (Jesus)
4 By studying creation (carefully)
5 By revelation of Holy Spirit

God is the inspiration and creator of life. A biology book and bible have the same writer.

When you get to side notes the problems can begin. I believe biology is a trusted source, but it can be perverted.

Webster's old dictionary is fair. A modern dictionary can be like a poor bible translation.

Holy Spirit or just a spirit. You have to try the spirits to see if they are of God.

Mind of Christ Jesus or carnal mind

Heart of flesh or stony heart

Spirituals are needed to discern.

The whole body is needed to arrive at truth.

eddif

 

[Brother Mike]

I've noticed that it seems like a good portion of my Christian brothers and sisters will read the bible, and then go to a dictionary to "see what it means"...

Is this right? I think not. How can we go to a work of man to understand God? Isn't the Holy Spirit supposed to bring us understanding Himself, through the Word of God or spiritual revelation? God is a Spirit, the Holy Spirit is a spirit. We are to worship Him in Spirit and in truth, and to live for the Spirit....so why even involve man's dictionary to understand?

We're to search the scriptures daily, and walk in the spirit. These things of God are spiritual and are spiritually discerned. So we are to pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit before we read His Word, and then open our hearts spiritually so that the Holy Spirit will give illumination. The Bible is it's own dictionary. Use the Bible as a dictionary, Brothers and Sisters. The definition is on page Holy Spirit.

Yes? No?

Our good brothers and sisters tend to be ignorant of the fact that the dictionary itself is comprised of definitions based on what the author thinks the words mean based on scriptures. They are not actual real Greek and Hebrew studies of the actual ancient language not tainted with mans understanding and doctrine.

Context in what the Word is saying trumps man's idea and doctrine on what they think the Word means. When we attempt to elevate mans understanding and not the teaching of the Holy Spirit, then it causes confusion and lack of understanding.

 

[WIP]

I think this is a fantastic topic, Edward. Definitions do change over time for sure, but I myself am not convinced that they should. It all contributes to confusion. Now I am in no way speaking against the work of the saints that came before us, as mentioned by Deb and to do with translations and whatnot.

The simplest and plainest example that I can think of is the very word "pride". Now in our (english speaking)western societies there is a part to the definition of pride that is actually something good, and this is a healthy sense of accomplishment. This shouldnt be there IMO, but because the world works how it works, it is. The bible clearly states pride is nothing but bad. Somehow, over time, even the brethren have given in to such things.

Most words arent like this of course and as you already know, the Spirit will guide on these matters if willing.

Isn't this where discernment comes into play?

 

[Obadiah]

...the dictionary itself is comprised of definitions based on what the author thinks the words mean based on scriptures. They are not actual real Greek and Hebrew studies of the actual ancient language not tainted with mans understanding and doctrine...

This is very true. I've can attest that I've run across this myself. While in Bible college I did a study of one of the original Greek words from scripture and it seemed it meant something very different than all the church tradition I've ever heard said it meant. When I asked an actual theologian where I went wrong and why my findings were so different from what everyone else seemed to think the word means, he told me I hadn't gone wrong at all, but had found the truth. However almost no pastor or anyone else paid to teach or preach will publicly admit to that because if they go against so many years of man's incorrect doctrine they would be fired. I've since run into pastors who also understand the truth, but indeed refuse to teach it for fear of the wrath of their congregations for going against the traditional belief.

I use the dictionaries all the time, but I also understand that they are exactly what you said they are, and they are sometimes wrong. However, I don't assume they are wrong just because I wish they said something different. I need to find good, logical evidence indicating they are probably wrong or at least incomplete before I start assuming they might be wrong.

 

[Brother Mike]

This is very true. I've can attest that I've run across this myself. While in Bible college I did a study of one of the original Greek words from scripture and it seemed it meant something very different than all the church tradition I've ever heard said it meant. When I asked an actual theologian where I went wrong and why my findings were so different from what everyone else seemed to think the word means, he told me I hadn't gone wrong at all, but had found the truth. However almost no pastor or anyone else paid to teach or preach will publicly admit to that because if they go against so many years of man's incorrect doctrine they would be fired. I've since run into pastors who also understand the truth, but indeed refuse to teach it for fear of the wrath of their congregations for going against the traditional belief.

I use the dictionaries all the time, but I also understand that they are exactly what you said they are, and they are sometimes wrong. However, I don't assume they are wrong just because I wish they said something different. I need to find good, logical evidence indicating they are probably wrong or at least incomplete before I start assuming they might be wrong.

Thank you for sharing that. Seems like it should not be that way. That is the point though. Strongs, Thayer are both just dictionaries and Full of each mans ideas and doctrines on how they think the Word was used in scripture.

God for example:
Strongs:
theos
theh'-os
Of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with G3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively a magistrate; by Hebraism very: - X exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].

Strong did not believe in the trinity jargon despite his Methodist backgrounds. So, Theos was a deity of uncertain affinity.

Thayer:
1) a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
2) the Godhead, trinity
2a) God the Father, the first person in the trinity
2b) Christ, the second person of the trinity
2c) Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity

There is nothing in the Greek Word Theos to denote the Trinity Godhead. However, Thayer thought that is exactly what the Word meant being brainwashed in Religion.

So Strongs and Thayer are (A bit) Better than Nothing, do help, but don't interpret scripture with them, count on the Holy Spirit.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I've noticed that it seems like a good portion of my Christian brothers and sisters will read the bible, and then go to a dictionary to "see what it means"...

Isn't that the dumbest thing you've ever heard? That is almost as dumb as anyone could ever get. A life example of that is taking a man or a woman out of the Bronx, NY City, placing him in rural South Alabama with one of the New Age English Dictionaries. i.e. It's pouring cats and puppy dogs, this mornin'.

Pour dumb New Yorker wants to see these pups and kittens hitting the ground, 'cause he/she ain't never seen somethin' like that afore! And people, today, grow so very irritable and will explain and sometimes yell, that's Circular Reasoning and you can't do that, when you try to explain to them that the scriptures are self interpreting but they must be read in context.

It is a lost battle before we open our mouths because, as nearly as I am able to ascertain, there is zero concept of context taught in any of our schools today, a concept required before any were allowed out of Primary School to go on to Jr. High School.

 

[Deborah13]

They are not actual real Greek and Hebrew studies of the actual ancient language not tainted with mans understanding and doctrine.

I think you haven't investigated who wrote these, their knowledge of the languages, their access to the oldest original MS at that time, and their access to other Greek writings of that time, so that they could compare and KNOW how these words were used at that time.

So Strongs and Thayer are (A bit) Better than Nothing, do help, but don't interpret scripture

There is a difference between a Concordance and a Lexicon.

 

[eddif]

On dictionaries (of which I am no expert):

It is interesting to read the 1828 dictionary definitions written by Noah Webster. Someone reading King. James will have help understanding some of those strange words we are not using today
Some might be interested in the history of the 1828 dictionary. It does give bible references at times.

eddif

 

[Deborah13]

On dictionaries (of which I am no expert):

It is interesting to read the 1828 dictionary definitions written by Noah Webster. Someone reading King. James will have help understanding some of those strange words we are not using today
Some might be interested in the history of the 1828 dictionary. It does give bible references at times.

eddif

Thanks eddif. I did not even think of this. It's only been when there has been controversy over a word, such as replenish, that I have investigated the meaning in Old English. This dictionary would be a better tool than most.

 

[Northman]

Isn't this where discernment comes into play?

It can, as with everything.

I guess I meant it in the most simple of terms. I've never seen God say he was proud of anything. Believers tell their children they are proud of them.

I go to God and ask a question. Hey God, people where I live are developing a language. We have a word that describes what you said happened to Lucifer, but we also want to make it mean the same thing as what you said to the crowd when John baptised Jesus. Can we do this? Is it a good idea?

The main point is that as with anything like this, I see the influence of the enemy. I know he would love nothing more than for every single one of us to spend our lives in study and commitment to man's laws and definitions of things with absolutely no time at all to ponder what the Lord has to say.

Condemnation of folks for using words a certain way is not what I'm seeking or implying in any way.