Bible Study The Nicolaitians and Revelation Ch. 2

[Betty]

This is a study from a few years ago that I came across today in one of my folders. I thought I'd share it here for discussion and input.

Revelation 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Revelation 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

Revelation 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Revelation 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.


The name "Nicolaitans" is derived from the Greek word nikolaos, a compound of the words Nikos and Laos. The word Nikos is Greek and means to conquer or to subdue. The word Laos is the Greek word for the people and where we get the word laity. When these two words are compounded into one, they form the name Nicolas, which means one who conquers and subdues the people.


The next mention of the Nicolaitanes is also in Revelation Ch. 2. To the church of Pergamos. It shows the doctrine of Balaam as part of the belief along with the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes.

Revelation 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;


Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Revelation 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.

The laws mentioned are the same laws that Paul and the Apostles gave to the gentile believers as recorded in Acts. Ch. 15


Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


Revelation 2:14, shows that the doctrine of Balaam went directly against those laws taught by Paul to the gentiles.

The third mention doesn't directly address the Nicolatianes, but shows the same type of teaching present. The laws mentioned in the first two listed above, are the same teachings that Jezebel taught.


Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

Revelation 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.


Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.


The first two churches mention the Nicolaitanes, along with people being taught to commit fornication and to eat things sacrified, the third church listed here, (Thyatira,) doesn’t directly mention the Nicolatianes, but the same teachings are present along with what Jezebel teaches shown in Vs. 20, and the doctrine of Balaam.


With these examples in Revelation, the churches, (believers) are being addressed. The doctrines of the Nicolatianes is mixed into more than one letter to a church. It seems that it has to do with conquering and victory over the people through false teachings that are stumbling blocks set in the paths of believers that are opposite of what God's word says. Another reason we should all be studying the word prayerfully and seeking God's truth diligently.

 

[Nathan]

It's interesting how easily people are genuinely led into false teachings.

Its also good to note that this happens when people look to follow the flesh.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Revelation 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.

The laws mentioned are the same laws that Paul and the Apostles gave to the gentile believers as recorded in Acts. Ch. 15


Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

So you're saying the judgment of the elders at Jerusalem concerning the law and the gentiles was intended to address the prevalence of baal worship among the gentiles. Interesting. That's probably the best explanation I've heard.

 

[Nathan]

So you're saying the judgment of the elders at Jerusalem concerning the law and the gentiles was intended to address the prevalence of baal worship among the gentiles. Interesting. That's probably the best explanation I've heard.

Most definitely. It wasn't to lay "laws" on them, but rather to keep them from trying to incorporate the world they lived in into their faith.

It was a way to keep the faith of Christ pure in their hearts.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Most definitely. It wasn't to lay "laws" on them, but rather to keep them from trying to incorporate the world they lived in into their faith.

It was a way to keep the faith of Christ pure in their hearts.

I always thought they were given to keep the gentiles from being stumbling blocks to the believing Jews who did still continue to keep the law. IOW, they were given for the sake of peace and unity between Jew and gentile. But it seems the baal worship thing is probably the right answer.

 

[Betty]

I always thought they were given to keep the gentiles from being stumbling blocks to the believing Jews who did still continue to keep the law. IOW, they were given for the sake of peace and unity between Jew and gentile. But it seems the baal worship thing is probably the right answer.

It's interesting Jethro Bodine, with the two laws that Paul gave, and the examples in Revelation, I believe, go deeper than natural laws. The body of Christ is often referred to as the bride of Christ, and faithfulness to Christ goes hand and hand. Our faith is in Him so we don't waver.

Fornication, in the scriptures, many times was tied to unfaithfulness to God. Idols or anything like Idols who people trust in were never acceptable, "things strangled, and blood," I'm not completely sure on these. Maybe someone else has an idea of what they represent?

It could have something to do with: Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.

Christ is our atonement, He shed His blood for us.(Thank you Jesus.)

However, natural principles apply as well.

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[JLB]

This is a study from a few years ago that I came across today in one of my folders. I thought I'd share it here for discussion and input.

Revelation 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Revelation 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

Revelation 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Revelation 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.


The name "Nicolaitans" is derived from the Greek word nikolaos, a compound of the words Nikos and Laos. The word Nikos is Greek and means to conquer or to subdue. The word Laos is the Greek word for the people and where we get the word laity. When these two words are compounded into one, they form the name Nicolas, which means one who conquers and subdues the people.


The next mention of the Nicolaitanes is also in Revelation Ch. 2. To the church of Pergamos. It shows the doctrine of Balaam as part of the belief along with the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes.

Revelation 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;


Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Revelation 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.

The laws mentioned are the same laws that Paul and the Apostles gave to the gentile believers as recorded in Acts. Ch. 15


Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


Revelation 2:14, shows that the doctrine of Balaam went directly against those laws taught by Paul to the gentiles.

The third mention doesn't directly address the Nicolatianes, but shows the same type of teaching present. The laws mentioned in the first two listed above, are the same teachings that Jezebel taught.


Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

Revelation 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.


Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.


The first two churches mention the Nicolaitanes, along with people being taught to commit fornication and to eat things sacrified, the third church listed here, (Thyatira,) doesn’t directly mention the Nicolatianes, but the same teachings are present along with what Jezebel teaches shown in Vs. 20, and the doctrine of Balaam.


With these examples in Revelation, the churches, (believers) are being addressed. The doctrines of the Nicolatianes is mixed into more than one letter to a church. It seems that it has to do with conquering and victory over the people through false teachings that are stumbling blocks set in the paths of believers that are opposite of what God's word says. Another reason we should all be studying the word prayerfully and seeking God's truth diligently.

It's the dividing and bringing into submission the Church through the idea and teaching of "leadership and laity", rather than what Jesus taught which is the greatest serve the least.


The doctrine of the Nicolatians can be seen today in many Church's where the laity serves the leadership, just like the world, where the "common" people serve the king, and his "family and friend's" as in the days of the Roman Caesar's.

The Pastors and their "entourage" can be seen as mega stars, being served by the people, and living in massive homes and driving $250,000 car's.


25 And He said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them, and those who exercise authority over them are called ‘benefactors.’ 26 But not so among you; on the contrary, he who is greatest among you, let him be as the younger, and he who governs as he who serves. 27 For who is greater, he who sits at the table, or he who serves? Is it not he who sits at the table? Yet I am among you as the One who serves. Luke 22:25-27


11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. Matthew 23:11


This Church structure can still be seen today in the Catholic Church.



JLB

 

[Nathan]

The Pastors and their "entourage" can be seen as mega stars, being served by the people, and living in massive homes and driving 250,000 cars.

That's a lot of cars.

That all didn't hit me till one day I thought "if I am a member of the body, and they are members too, why is this meeting called a 'service'"?

Then I realized that 'church' was about a few presenting themselves before many. Full circle religion.

 

[Betty]

It's the dividing and bringing into submission the Church through the idea and teaching of "leadership and laity", rather than what Jesus taught which is the greatest serve the least.


The doctrine of the Nicolatians can be seen today in many Church's where the laity serves the leadership, just like the world, where the "common" people serve the king, and his "family and friend's" as in the days of the Roman Caesar's.

The Pastors and their "entourage" can be seen as mega stars, being served by the people, and living in massive homes and driving 250,000 cars.


25 And He said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them, and those who exercise authority over them are called ‘benefactors.’ 26 But not so among you; on the contrary, he who is greatest among you, let him be as the younger, and he who governs as he who serves. 27 For who is greater, he who sits at the table, or he who serves? Is it not he who sits at the table? Yet I am among you as the One who serves. Luke 22:25-27


11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. Matthew 23:11


This Church structure can still be seen today in the Catholic Church.


JLB

Very well put JBL.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That's a lot of cars.

That's what I was thinking.

The Pastors and their "entourage" can be seen as mega stars, being served by the people, and living in massive homes and driving 250,000 cars.

But they deserve it, right?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

"things strangled..." I'm not completely sure on these. Maybe someone else has an idea of what they represent?

I've been told a strangled animal is unhealthy.
I'll have to meditate on this to see if there is a spiritual understanding to be found here: Strangled vs. having it's neck broken.

 

[Nathan]

Fornication, in the scriptures, many times was tied to unfaithfulness to God. Idols or anything like Idols who people trust in were never acceptable, "things strangled, and blood," I'm not completely sure on these. Maybe someone else has an idea of what they represent?
.

My take, and I am only repeating what I have heard(not that it does not make sense);

If we base the commands, from the Apostles given to the Gentiles, on the idea that they were to keep the faith pure in the Gentiles minds - not giving them an idea that they should bring in their other(old) 'worship' practices into this new found faith - we then would have to look at what those worship practices were.

I have heard that the things "strangled and blood" are in reference to pagan worshiping practices. It may have very well been (again this is what I have heard) that during the worship of other gods they would mutilate(strangle) things and kill(blood) things.

I highly doubt it was literal in nature, as abstaining from foods in general, because Paul was very much against doing such things - and even warning of those who would come in and tell them to do so. I fully believe that the commands from the Apostles were all about pagan worship practices.

So much for that though -

Today our 'churches' are full of pagan practices that were 'incorporated' in order to 'be open' to the people who come from 'other religions'.

 

[Betty]

My take, and I am only repeating what I have heard(not that it does not make sense);

If we base the commands, from the Apostles given to the Gentiles, on the idea that they were to keep the faith pure in the Gentiles minds - not giving them an idea that they should bring in their other(old) 'worship' practices into this new found faith - we then would have to look at what those worship practices were.

I have heard that the things "strangled and blood" are in reference to pagan worshiping practices. It may have very well been (again this is what I have heard) that during the worship of other gods they would mutilate(strangle) things and kill(blood) things.

I highly doubt it was literal in nature, as abstaining from foods in general, because Paul was very much against doing such things - and even warning of those who would come in and tell them to do so. I fully believe that the commands from the Apostles were all about pagan worship practices.

So much for that though -

Today our 'churches' are full of pagan practices that were 'incorporated' in order to 'be open' to the people who come from 'other religions'.

Pagan practices are definitely part of it, but the laws that God commanded are not pagan practices. They are very literal. When you read them, they are specific and literal.

Paul even tied five of the ten commandments to loving others as ourselves. As one example of how even the law can edify us in Christ.

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

He didn't discount the law in the above passage, but gave an example of what it represents. If we are doing opposite of the commands that Paul listed there, I'd say that would be a good indication that we should examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith. It's not our own actions that save us, only Jesus saves.

Our lives would reflect that work in us through Christ. We all come short, but we get up brush off the dust, and press on.

There's actually all kinds of principles within the law itself, that clarifies much of what is being spoken in the NT.
One thing I do know for certain, everything God ever said has a purpose.

Here's one more example. Have you ever looking into many of the biblical foods listed? They represent more than the just the literal foods.

• Olive Oil
• Honey
• Wine
• Flax
• Wheat
• Barley
• Millet
• Bread
• Milk

Each one of those are really awesome to dig into. Even with "wine," the scriptures are so clear that they cover the entire aspect of it. There's not only good wine there's bad wine.

Another example would involve "bread." When Jesus said He is the bread of heaven in John ch. 6.

Even hunger and thirst in the scriptures take us from a literal point of view to a spiritual point of view.

 

[Nathan]

Pagan practices are definitely part of it, but the laws that God commanded are not pagan practices. They are very literal. When you read them, they are specific and literal.

Paul even tied five of the ten commandments to loving others as ourselves. As one example of how even the law can edify us in Christ.

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

He didn't discount the law in the above passage, but gave an example of what it represents. If we are doing opposite of the commands that Paul listed there, I'd say that would be a good indication that we should examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith. It's not our own actions that save us, only Jesus saves.

Our lives would reflect that work in us through Christ. We all come short, but we get up brush off the dust, and press on.

There's actually all kinds of principles within the law itself, that clarifies much of what is being spoken in the NT.
One thing I do know for certain, everything God ever said has a purpose.

Oh definitely. They are literal.

But at the same time, pagans do practice those things which are against God's law. However, the Apostles 'law' given in Acts, I do believe was specific to pagan practices and not actual consumption of foods outside of the pagan practices - unless, the faith of the believer was unable to accept those foods due to the fact they were apart of pagan worship, or another believer was made to stumble because of the other's eating. Make sense?

Like me, not that I would drink a cup of blood(yuk), but I can eat a steak cooked to medium without any effect on my conscience. Why? Because I know that it was not killed in any worship of another 'god' and God gave us cow's to eat.(yum) I am a hunter also, and last year I shot a turkey. It did not die immediately so I went over and 'wrung its neck'. There was no worship of any other 'gods' applicable in that case. In fact, I was very happy that God had given me this beautiful bird.

The Apostles 'law' in Acts would not be applicable to us today in regards to the foods - unless your in that part of the world where these pagan rituals still take place.

Think about it. The Apostles were not trying to tell them these were the only things they could not do, that they did not have to think about the eternal law of God. The eternal law of God already says we should not commit adultery(which would include any sexual activity outside of marriage). So the Apostles were not trying to just reiterate that point, while leaving the others out, they were getting to the point that because sexual immorality was apart of pagan worship they needed to abstain from every part of it - anything associated with it.

If we wanted, we could definitely come up with some 'new' laws today in our day and age in the church. In order to help others keep their conciseness pure before God with the 'pagan' practices that still exist today. But we are so divided as a church that it would almost be impossible. Back then they could do it because the faith was pure.

 

[Betty]

Oh definitely. They are literal.

But at the same time, pagans do practice those things which are against God's law. However, the Apostles 'law' given in Acts, I do believe was specific to pagan practices and not actual consumption of foods outside of the pagan practices - unless, the faith of the believer was unable to accept those foods due to the fact they were apart of pagan worship, or another believer was made to stumble because of the other's eating. Make sense?

Like me, not that I would drink a cup of blood(yuk), but I can eat a steak cooked to medium without any effect on my conscience. Why? Because I know that it was not killed in any worship of another 'god' and God gave us cow's to eat.(yum) I am a hunter also, and last year I shot a turkey. It did not die immediately so I went over and 'wrung its neck'. There was no worship of any other 'gods' applicable in that case. In fact, I was very happy that God had given me this beautiful bird.

The Apostles 'law' in Acts would not be applicable to us today in regards to the foods - unless your in that part of the world where these pagan rituals still take place.

Think about it. The Apostles were not trying to tell them these were the only things they could not do, that they did not have to think about the eternal law of God. The eternal law of God already says we should not commit adultery(which would include any sexual activity outside of marriage). So the Apostles were not trying to just reiterate that point, while leaving the others out, they were getting to the point that because sexual immorality was apart of pagan worship they needed to abstain from every part of it - anything associated with it.

If we wanted, we could definitely come up with some 'new' laws today in our day and age in the church. In order to help others keep their conciseness pure before God with the 'pagan' practices that still exist today. But we are so divided as a church that it would almost be impossible. Back then they could do it because the faith was pure.

Yes, there are some things that are very literal, and somethings like the biblical foods that I edited and added while you were responding.

I like a good steak too. I can't say that I ever tried wild turkey. I hear it's pretty good though.

In revelations 2 the "strangled part or wrung neck" Ties to:

Exodus 34:15
otherwise you might make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land and they would play the harlot with their gods and sacrifice to their gods, and someone might invite you to eat of his sacrifice,

God tied it to "playing the harlot with their gods," in the law. Making it very relevant as those very words are used in Revelations. Remember, He is speaking to Churches in this passage.

Sometimes, examining all of the different mentions of a subject, brings clarity to it. Just like with the foods listed, and what Paul said here as an example:

1 Corinthians 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

Taken into consideration with this passage: (as well as other passages.)

Isaiah 28:7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
Isaiah 28:8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

(Interesting how many time vs. 7 mentions "strong drink.")

Proverbs 23:6 Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye, neither desire thou his dainty meats:

Psalms 141:4 Incline not my heart to any evil thing, to practise wicked works with men that work iniquity: and let me not eat of their dainties.

Proverbs 23:1 When thou sittest to eat with a ruler, consider diligently what is before thee:
Proverbs 23:2 And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite.
Proverbs 23:3 Be not desirous of his dainties: for they are deceitful meat.

See how there are certain things spoken within the scriptures that are clarified through examining or searching other passages that witness to it?

Like with wine, even each mention of different foods in the bible cover the full picture of what it means, both good and bad.

I had to add one more verse here. I signed out went to close a window with bible verses that I was reading this morning, and this verse caught my eye.

1 Corinthians 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

Numbers 25:1-9 is what Paul is referencing in the above verse.

 

[chessman]

Fornication, in the scriptures, many times was tied to unfaithfulness to God. Idols or anything like Idols who people trust in were never acceptable, "things strangled, and blood," I'm not completely sure on these. Maybe someone else has an idea of what they represent?

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html

"3. The Nicolaitanes are the followers of that Nicolas who was one of the seven first ordained to the diaconate by the apostles. They lead lives of unrestrained indulgence. The character of these men is very plainly pointed out in the Apocalypse of John, [when they are represented] as teaching that it is a matter of indifference to practise adultery, and to eat things sacrificed to idols. Wherefore the Word has also spoken of them thus: "But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate."​

What was going on there has analogies/parallels today (in differing degrees of direct comparison, I suppose). Think of the Priest's sexual seductions of alter boys or protestant preachers who use their leadership influence to gain women/sex, (even married women), etc. You can read Irenaeus' description at the link above. Basically, it was abuse of their power by the leadership (false leaders, even demon possessed) for their own personal gain (sexual or otherwise) in teaching and participating in all kinds of prohibited practices. They basically taught that since they were so great/powerful, they could commit adultery/fornication, etc. but that the rest of the people couldn't do this, yet. That is, not until they became "perfect enough" to do these things without harm. Yeah, right! And guess how that reached that perfect level of knowledge??? yep, giving them money/sex/etc.

Chapter VI:3. Wherefore also it comes to pass, that the "most perfect" among them addict themselves without fear to all those kinds of forbidden deeds of which the Scriptures assure us that "they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
For instance, they make no scruple about eating meats offered in sacrifice to idols, imagining that they can in this way contract no defilement.
...
Others of them, too, openly and without a blush, having become passionately attached to certain women, seduce them away from their husbands, and contract marriages of their own with them.
Others of them, again, who pretend at first. to live in all modesty with them as with sisters, have in course of time been revealed in their true colours, when the sister has been found with child by her [pretended] brother.​

As for "the blood", it's my understanding that there were some of these so-called "most perfect" Nicolaitian leaders/bishops that basically used a magic show/festival of a sorts to influence people into thinking they had miracle powers using blood (animal or human) mixed with wine in a communal cup past around. 'Drink this and you too can be enlighted like me' (type of thingy). Reminds me of give me $100 and I'll send you a magical prayer rag in the mail or Jim Jones or something. Irenaeus and other church fathers said they were demon possessed.

Chapter XIII:2
Pretending to consecrate cups mixed with wine, and protracting to great length the word of invocation, he contrives to give them a purple and reddish colour, so that Charis, who is one of those that are superior to all things, should be thought to drop her own blood into that cup through means of his invocation, and that thus those who are present should be led to rejoice to taste of that cup, in order that, by so doing, the Charis, who is set forth by this magician, may also flow into them. Again, handing mixed cups to the women, he bids them consecrate these in his presence. When this has been done, he himself produces another cup of much larger size than that which the deluded woman has consecrated, ) and pouting from the smaller one consecrated by the woman into that which has been brought forward by himself, he at the same time pronounces these words: "May that Chaffs who is before all things, and who transcends all knowledge and speech, fill thine inner man, and multiply in thee her own knowledge, by sowing the grain of mustard seed in thee as in good soil." Repeating certain other like words, and thus goading on the wretched woman [to madness], he then appears a worker of wonders when the large cup is seen to have been filled out of the small one, so as even to overflow by what has been obtained from it. By accomplishing several other similar things, he has completely deceived many, and drawn them away after him.​

 

[Nathan]

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html

"3. The Nicolaitanes are the followers of that Nicolas who was one of the seven first ordained to the diaconate by the apostles. They lead lives of unrestrained indulgence. The character of these men is very plainly pointed out in the Apocalypse of John, [when they are represented] as teaching that it is a matter of indifference to practise adultery, and to eat things sacrificed to idols. Wherefore the Word has also spoken of them thus: "But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate."​

What was going on there has analogies/parallels today (in differing degrees of direct comparison, I suppose). Think of the Priest's sexual seductions of alter boys or protestant preachers who use their leadership influence to gain women/sex, (even married women), etc. You can read Irenaeus' description at the link above. Basically, it was abuse of their power by the leadership (false leaders, even demon possessed) for their own personal gain (sexual or otherwise) in teaching and participating in all kinds of prohibited practices. They basically taught that since they were so great/powerful, they could commit adultery/fornication, etc. but that the rest of the people couldn't do this, yet. That is, not until they became "perfect enough" to do these things without harm. Yeah, right! And guess how that reached that perfect level of knowledge??? yep, giving them money/sex/etc.

Chapter VI:3. Wherefore also it comes to pass, that the "most perfect" among them addict themselves without fear to all those kinds of forbidden deeds of which the Scriptures assure us that "they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
For instance, they make no scruple about eating meats offered in sacrifice to idols, imagining that they can in this way contract no defilement.
...
Others of them, too, openly and without a blush, having become passionately attached to certain women, seduce them away from their husbands, and contract marriages of their own with them.
Others of them, again, who pretend at first. to live in all modesty with them as with sisters, have in course of time been revealed in their true colours, when the sister has been found with child by her [pretended] brother.​

As for "the blood", it's my understanding that there were some of these so-called "most perfect" Nicolaitian leaders/bishops that basically used a magic show/festival of a sorts to influence people into thinking they had miracle powers using blood (animal or human) mixed with wine in a communal cup past around. 'Drink this and you too can be enlighted like me' (type of thingy). Reminds me of give me $100 and I'll send you a magical prayer rag in the mail or Jim Jones or something. Irenaeus and other church fathers said they were demon possessed.

Chapter XIII:2
Pretending to consecrate cups mixed with wine, and protracting to great length the word of invocation, he contrives to give them a purple and reddish colour, so that Charis, who is one of those that are superior to all things, should be thought to drop her own blood into that cup through means of his invocation, and that thus those who are present should be led to rejoice to taste of that cup, in order that, by so doing, the Charis, who is set forth by this magician, may also flow into them. Again, handing mixed cups to the women, he bids them consecrate these in his presence. When this has been done, he himself produces another cup of much larger size than that which the deluded woman has consecrated, ) and pouting from the smaller one consecrated by the woman into that which has been brought forward by himself, he at the same time pronounces these words: "May that Chaffs who is before all things, and who transcends all knowledge and speech, fill thine inner man, and multiply in thee her own knowledge, by sowing the grain of mustard seed in thee as in good soil." Repeating certain other like words, and thus goading on the wretched woman [to madness], he then appears a worker of wonders when the large cup is seen to have been filled out of the small one, so as even to overflow by what has been obtained from it. By accomplishing several other similar things, he has completely deceived many, and drawn them away after him.​

One of the most important questions a person needs to ask themselves when studying this, about the Nicolatians, is why did they have no fear?

Did they understand they were not going to heaven and so they made the most of it?
or
Did they really think they were 'locked' into eternal life and so they thought nothing else mattered?

There had to be a reason for their behavior. One or the other.

 

[chessman]

There had to be a reason for their behavior.

I'm sure there was/is reasons for their leader's seductive behaviors.

The church fathers that spoke of them (the ones conducting these practices and teachings) said that they were demon possessed. I don't think they were speaking hyperbole either. I mean, literally demon possessed.

So;

Did they really think they were 'locked' into eternal life and so they thought nothing else mattered?

I'd say no, they didn't think they had eternal life. The Holy Spirit living in us, teaches us we have eternal life. Which is incompatible with demon possession. So if they really were demon possessed, they didn't have the Spirit's assurance too.

Did they understand they were not going to heaven and so they made the most of it?

IDK. I don't know what goes through the minds of people suffering demon possession about their afterlife.

One or the other.

I'm not sure the possible reasons for their practices are limited to one or the other.

I forget which one (which church father) said so and where, but he said one of these guys got so controlled by his demon(s) that he literally just burst into flames one day and burnt up. He spoke of levels of deception, though.

 

[Betty]

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html

"3. The Nicolaitanes are the followers of that Nicolas who was one of the seven first ordained to the diaconate by the apostles. They lead lives of unrestrained indulgence. The character of these men is very plainly pointed out in the Apocalypse of John, [when they are represented] as teaching that it is a matter of indifference to practise adultery, and to eat things sacrificed to idols. Wherefore the Word has also spoken of them thus: "But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate."​

What was going on there has analogies/parallels today (in differing degrees of direct comparison, I suppose). Think of the Priest's sexual seductions of alter boys or protestant preachers who use their leadership influence to gain women/sex, (even married women), etc. You can read Irenaeus' description at the link above. Basically, it was abuse of their power by the leadership (false leaders, even demon possessed) for their own personal gain (sexual or otherwise) in teaching and participating in all kinds of prohibited practices. They basically taught that since they were so great/powerful, they could commit adultery/fornication, etc. but that the rest of the people couldn't do this, yet. That is, not until they became "perfect enough" to do these things without harm. Yeah, right! And guess how that reached that perfect level of knowledge??? yep, giving them money/sex/etc.

Chapter VI:3. Wherefore also it comes to pass, that the "most perfect" among them addict themselves without fear to all those kinds of forbidden deeds of which the Scriptures assure us that "they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
For instance, they make no scruple about eating meats offered in sacrifice to idols, imagining that they can in this way contract no defilement.
...
Others of them, too, openly and without a blush, having become passionately attached to certain women, seduce them away from their husbands, and contract marriages of their own with them.
Others of them, again, who pretend at first. to live in all modesty with them as with sisters, have in course of time been revealed in their true colours, when the sister has been found with child by her [pretended] brother.​

As for "the blood", it's my understanding that there were some of these so-called "most perfect" Nicolaitian leaders/bishops that basically used a magic show/festival of a sorts to influence people into thinking they had miracle powers using blood (animal or human) mixed with wine in a communal cup past around. 'Drink this and you too can be enlighted like me' (type of thingy). Reminds me of give me $100 and I'll send you a magical prayer rag in the mail or Jim Jones or something. Irenaeus and other church fathers said they were demon possessed.

Chapter XIII:2
Pretending to consecrate cups mixed with wine, and protracting to great length the word of invocation, he contrives to give them a purple and reddish colour, so that Charis, who is one of those that are superior to all things, should be thought to drop her own blood into that cup through means of his invocation, and that thus those who are present should be led to rejoice to taste of that cup, in order that, by so doing, the Charis, who is set forth by this magician, may also flow into them. Again, handing mixed cups to the women, he bids them consecrate these in his presence. When this has been done, he himself produces another cup of much larger size than that which the deluded woman has consecrated, ) and pouting from the smaller one consecrated by the woman into that which has been brought forward by himself, he at the same time pronounces these words: "May that Chaffs who is before all things, and who transcends all knowledge and speech, fill thine inner man, and multiply in thee her own knowledge, by sowing the grain of mustard seed in thee as in good soil." Repeating certain other like words, and thus goading on the wretched woman [to madness], he then appears a worker of wonders when the large cup is seen to have been filled out of the small one, so as even to overflow by what has been obtained from it. By accomplishing several other similar things, he has completely deceived many, and drawn them away after him.​

Interesting Chessman, thank you for sharing this. I've never seen this information. What is the title of this book, or do you have a link to more information on what you shared here? I'd love to look into more.

Thank you.

Never mind, I see the link. Thanks!

 

[chessman]

Interesting Chessman, thank you for sharing this. I've never seen this information. What is the title of this book, or do you have a link to more information on what you shared here? I'd love to look into more.

Thank you.

It's
Irenaeus of Lyons
Book I

It's ancient (the original not the website). Written about 180 AD. Irenaeus knew and was taught by Polycarp personally. Polycarp knew and was taught by John personally for years. Irenaeus is my favorite among the early church fathers/writers. He get's to the point and makes some good arguments for his apologetics.

Does the link in the post not show up on your machine/browser?

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html