Like this post if you believe in pre-trib rapture of the church!

[Kkamagwi]

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

This is the “rapture” whereby those who are alive are caught up together with the resurrected ones.




For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17-18






JLB

I believe that this speaks of Judgment Day, not of any alleged rapture that happens beforehand.

 

[JLB]

I believe that this speaks of Judgment Day, not of any alleged rapture that happens beforehand.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17


Those who are still alive at the coming of the Lord will be caught up alive.


What would you like to call this.

 

[JLB]

I believe that this speaks of Judgment Day, not of any alleged rapture that happens beforehand.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.1 Corinthians 15:50-53



Those who are alive shall be changed just as the dead in Christ shall, together at His coming.


The resurrection and rapture occur together at His coming.




JLB

 

[Nathan12]

The coming of the Lord is when the resurrection of the dead in Christ, and the rapture as well as the destruction of the wicked occurs.

There are a couple of critical reasons why the Resurrection/Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ (AFTER the Day of the LORD) cannot be simultaneous:

1. The Marriage of the Lamb must occur before the Second Coming of Christ. This involves all the saints, therefore they must be present in Heaven (Rev 19).

2. At the Second Coming, Christ comes to earth for judgment with all His saints and angels (metaphorically called "clouds" because they are all dressed in white and radiating light) (Rev 1:7). This would be impossible if the Resurrection/Rapture were taking place simultaneously.

3. The Second Coming is a day of terror for all the inhabitants of the world, because it is a day of judgment -- "and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him"... "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
to execute judgment upon all..."

So for biblical consistency the sequence of events must be:

1. The Resurrection/Rapture (the Day of Christ)
2. The Tribulation
3. The Great Tribulation (the Day of the LORD)
4. The shaking of the heavens and the earth
5. The Second Coming

 

[Kkamagwi]

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17


Those who are still alive at the coming of the Lord will be caught up alive.


What would you like to call this.

Some people will still be alive on the day Jesus returns to Earth - Judgment Day.

 

[Kkamagwi]

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.1 Corinthians 15:50-53



Those who are alive shall be changed just as the dead in Christ shall, together at His coming.


The resurrection and rapture occur together at His coming.




JLB

If you insist on using the word "rapture."

 

[Nathan12]

Some people will still be alive on the day Jesus returns to Earth - Judgment Day.

Yes. But they will be those who have been reserved for judgment:
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 1:14,15)

While the day of the Second Coming is a judgment day, the final judgment day is later on at the Great White Throne judgment.

 

[John Prewett]

Most nominal 'Christians' and Most of the previous posters ignore the Revelation.

Which is why they will be very confused and vulnerable when soon coming events transpire.

Jesus is NOT coming back for His saints as He did in the pre-Revelation generation 2000 years ago.

Rather in OUR current age Jesus is coming back WITH His saints
(who will have previously been beheaded and thus "overcome the Beast")

 

[Kkamagwi]

Yes. But they will be those who have been reserved for judgment:
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 1:14,15)

While the day of the Second Coming is a judgment day, the final judgment day is later on at the Great White Throne judgment.

I respect your view Nat, even as I disagree with it.

 

[JLB]

There are a couple of critical reasons why the Resurrection/Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ (AFTER the Day of the LORD) cannot be simultaneous:

1. The Marriage of the Lamb must occur before the Second Coming of Christ. This involves all the saints, therefore they must be present in Heaven (Rev 19).

2. At the Second Coming, Christ comes to earth for judgment with all His saints and angels (metaphorically called "clouds" because they are all dressed in white and radiating light) (Rev 1:7). This would be impossible if the Resurrection/Rapture were taking place simultaneously.

3. The Second Coming is a day of terror for all the inhabitants of the world, because it is a day of judgment -- "and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him"... "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
to execute judgment upon all..."

So for biblical consistency the sequence of events must be:

1. The Resurrection/Rapture (the Day of Christ)
2. The Tribulation
3. The Great Tribulation (the Day of the LORD)
4. The shaking of the heavens and the earth
5. The Second Coming

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:4

• we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord

There first thing to establish is the context of the time frame:

the coming of the Lord.


The first thing to happen at the coming of the Lord is the resurrection.


the dead in Christ will rise first


Then the rapture.

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them

Once the resurrection and rapture occur, whereby all of His people are gathered together unto Him in the air above the earth, He will then destroy the wicked.


For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them.


This coming of the Lord, where Jesus gathers His people and all His people will forever be with Him, is also called by Paul, the Day of the Lord.


So far what we see from the scripture from Paul to the Church is very simple and straightforward.

1. Resurrection
2. Rapture
3. Destruction of the wicked

Again these three things occur at the coming of the Lord.


It is interesting to note that the Day of the Lord, His coming, will not come as a thief in the night for the Church, but for the wicked.



But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief



JLB

 

[JLB]

Some people will still be alive on the day Jesus returns to Earth - Judgment Day.

Yes

 

[JLB]

If you insist on using the word "rapture."

I don’t not insist on using the word rapture.


I do want to use a term we can agree on.


What would like to call it, when those who are alive are caught up to Him?




JLB

 

[Kkamagwi]

I don’t not insist on using the word rapture.


I do want to use a term we can agree on.


What would like to call it, when those who are alive are caught up to Him?




JLB

I don't have a name for it. I think a name isn't needed for it. Unless you can tell me where the name "rapture" is used for it in Scripture.

 

[JLB]

I don't have a name for it. I think a name isn't needed for it. Unless you can tell me where the name "rapture" is used for it in Scripture.

To describe those who are alive at the coming of the Lord, who will be caught up alive, and changed, bodily.


They will receive resurrection bodies but not actually die.


We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:51



JLB

 

[Kkamagwi]

To describe those who are alive at the coming of the Lord, who will be caught up alive, and changed, bodily.


They will receive resurrection bodies but not actually die.


We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:51



JLB

Hmm... I don't see the word "rapture" used there.

 

[John Prewett]

The end of our era sequence of events is plain by combining:

Rev 13:7 (Beast wages war on the saints) and
Rev 15:2 (having overcome the Beast, the saints are safely in heaven and
Rev 16:6 (blood of saints and prophets was poured out by minions of the Beast) and
Rev 20:4 (having been beheaded, the saints (who followed Christ from heaven)
"reign with Christ")

 

[JLB]

Hmm... I don't see the word "rapture" used there.

The living will be caught up with the dead in Christ, and they are changed by having incorruptible bodies.


What you call it is your business.



JLB

 

[JLB]

The end of our era sequence of events is plain by combining:

Rev 13:7 (Beast wages war on the saints) and
Rev 15:2 (having overcome the Beast, the saints are safely in heaven and
Rev 16:6 (blood of saints and prophets was poured out by minions of the Beast) and
Rev 20:4 (having been beheaded, the saints (who followed Christ from heaven)
"reign with Christ")

First the coming of the Lord takes place, where the dead in Christ are resurrected along with those who are alive and remain.


Then the wicked are destroyed.



Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Revelation 19:11-16




JLB

 

[John Prewett]

First the coming of the Lord takes place, where the dead in Christ are resurrected along with those who are alive and remain. ............. JLB

The above which Paul (& Jesus in Matt 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13) predicted

took place in the generation some 2000 years ago.

"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. "
Matt 24:34

Next big "coming" of our era will be the coming of the supreme Beast as per Rev 13.

Jesus not returning (as per Rev 19) until after His saints have been beheaded
and when the Beast has reigned for 42 months.

 

[Corn Pop]

Jesus said to his diciples the generation they were living would not pass away till what he said would take place. And it did. The after events are not only written in scripture but are historical facts.